Apple's new butterfly keyboard

[Muirium]

Bear in mind that I like to stand at my workstation, which moves me closer to the screen than when sitting down. My vision is all over the map (truly terrible without glasses) but I'm like a hawk when it comes to sharp edges and symmetry. That 24" Dell 4k was impressive. I could only see its native res on the Windows box they had it hooked up to, and the dots on the status bar clock were a wonder! But the housing is so ugly and flimsy compared to a Thunderbolt Display. Those 27 inchers look retina to me so long as I back off about twice the distance I'd actually use them. All the actually retina Macs, meanwhile, need me to practically touch my nose against the screen!

I think a lot of it is that I see the subpixel RGB elements on lower density displays. Those are 4x smaller at retina resolutions, which moves me more than twice as close to make them out.

[jacobolus]

you can see pixels @ 1440p on a 27inch ? You must have super eyes.

Absolutely. I can see pixels on a 1440p 27" display from at least 4–5 feet away. At my typical viewing distance which is more like 2–3 feet, the difference between 110 and 220 ppi is very dramatic. And with a 220 ppi display, there’s actually an advantage when I lean in close to look at some detail.

[Redmaus]

I think apple could sell anything. They have already sold out almost completely on the new macbooks and apple watches. They could make a little aluminum box that has a glowing apple logo on it and vibrates or something when an ios device gets close, and could price it at like 300$ due to being made out of "premium materials" or being "innovative". They could also make a gold tinted one that could sell for like 5k. I bet you they could pull it off.

Oh and what are everybodys thoughts on the apple watch? To me it looks nice and would probably come in handy but due to the fact that it will be replaced within a year, and the fact that it is a first gen product makes it less feasible. Not to mention the fact that it is terribly overpriced. I think I will stick to my pebble.

[jacobolus]

I think apple could sell anything. [...] They could make a little aluminum box that has a glowing apple logo on it and vibrates or something when an ios device gets close, and could price it at like 300$ due to being made out of "premium materials" or being "innovative". They could also make a gold tinted one that could sell for like 5k. I bet you they could pull it off.

http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewforum.php?f=14

[bhtooefr]

Regarding Apple Watch vs. Pebble... I think with current technology, Pebble has the right balance, but that technology isn't at all suitable for Apple's design standards. Then again, I'm not convinced that the Apple Watch really meets their own standards in other ways...

[Muirium]

I've played with them in the store: interactive display and a few try-ons while it plays a fixed demo on your wrist. Definitely some potential there. The "Taptic" haptic alerts are very elegant, and the display is the sharpest little gem I've yet seen. But I'm not a watch guy. Haven't been for years. I'll only consider them when they are a fraction of the weight, so I don't even notice it's there. I used to leave my (entry level) Swiss watch behind at places all the time because I was unconsciously taking the bugger off without as much as realising. My wrists prize their freedom!

I'm too damn big to even squeeze the smaller 38 mm Apple Watch on for a try, except with the dainty traditional leather strap which makes a tight fit for me on its very largest notch. I like that watch size better though, despite the fact its strap was clearly much too small for me! The 42 mm is easily the largest watch I've ever worn. Much too much.

A few years down the line — when these original models look laughably large and thick to everyone — the platform might be essential. But for now I'm not buying. I need my pennies for a desktop retina display. If only they get around to it!

[bhtooefr]

It's worth noting that modern men's fashion has gone towards huge watches. My wrists are fairly average I'd say, maybe a touch bigger, and a 38 mm watch (not the Apple Watch, but my Seiko 5 is the same size) is getting close to looking like it's a women's watch on my wrists. The 42 mm would look pretty good on my wrists, I'd say.

BTW, looks like the longer of the sport bands would also work for you (barely) on the 38 mm watch: https://store.apple.com/Catalog/regiona ... _Guide.pdf

I didn't see any that you could actually play with in my local Apple store, just display models running a fixed demo under glass.

[XMIT]

Anyone who reads Hacker News will find this iFixit article readily:

https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Retina+ ... down/39841

That is a level of macro photography to which I aspire.

There are some very nice photos of the actual keys about two-thirds of the way down the page.

[bhtooefr]

Is that... possibly using a conductive dome? As in, no membrane involved? Dang.

Edit: The bottom side of the PCB (you can tell it's a PCB with a white solder mask):

[jacobolus]

It's worth noting that modern men's fashion has gone towards huge watches.

For the most part, modern expensive men’s watches are unbelievably tacky. Same demographic who buy luxury SUVs or sportscars with those awful blue headlights, fly first class, and hit on women 20 years younger.

[webwit]

This. IMO real men don't wear jewelry and certainly no SUV watches! Can only be excused if you're a king and wear a chain and crown, or if you're Mr. T.

[XMIT]

Why buy SUVs and watches when you could buy 30 year old keyboards?

[webwit]

This. Your keyboard collection can surely act as a similar babe magnet.

[Muirium]

Like real magnets: attraction not guaranteed.

"I'll show you my buckling spring, if you know what I mean."

[webwit]

Don't mention the poles.

[sypl]

I tried one of these at an Apple store and like Muirium came away impressed. Wrote a little write-up at GH, repeated here:

---

I tried it today as well, and it isn't bad. They keys feel really weird at first because the travel is so, so low. And because the keys are almost at a level with the plate/chassis/body it almost feels disconcerting, as I'm used to feeling for the next key via the gaps between them on a mac keyboard.

The keys are quite a bit larger and the gap reduced, so you have to get used to that. How long does that take though? Not long. I feel I was back up to normal typing speed and accuracy within 10 minutes. Bigger keys are definitely more forgiving.

Most importantly is that it's predictable. It breaks exactly in the same place each time with a fairly quiet 'dok!', and that's about all the tactility I need to be honest. I kind of like the idea that my fingers will have to travel even less than before vertically. I'm a fan of low travel keys: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70924.0

Those worried about the change in arrow cluster shape needn't worry. The shape of the the up and down arrows, where there's a curve in the key between them, makes homing in fairly simple.

My left ring finger and pinkie hurt after about half an hour, but I don't know if that's the keyboard or just acclimation. It's possible the bottoming out is too hard. Would have to type extensively to know for sure though.

[c137]

I have to admit I feared the "butterfly" keyboard would totally suck because of the low travel.
However, after trying it out myself I find it's the best Apple keyboard in production!

It is shallow, yes, but also very precise and gives feedback at exactly the same spot every press. Keys travel straight and true, there is practically no chance of them ever getting stuck like it could happen with scissors.
Also, the keys are noticably bigger in terms of area you can hit.

So while it might not compete with the AEK II it's a decent laptop keyboard, especially for a device that thin IMO.

[Muirium]

Yup. The rule of thumb for these is if you liked the previous Apple chiclet keyboard, you'll hate it. And if you hate the chiclet, you'll like this. It's no mech either, but I like what they're doing in something so thin.

[User101]

Excellent Thread!!

Yeah you bet.

[Elrick]

There are some very nice photos of the actual keys about two-thirds of the way down the page.

Are these the very same keys that are being used in the current Logitech MX Keys Wireless Illuminated Keyboard?

Please excuse my ignorance here in regards to Apple specific switches, since I am NOT an Apple fiend in any way. It sure mentions the very same type of switch being "Butterfly" like.