F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[qowieuryt]

Hi everyone,

I recently received my F62 and have been unsuccessfully attempting to map the keys. I am complete noob at using both QMK and VIA. I downloaded both but neither would recognize the keyboard. I read on reddit and here that I would need to flash my keyboard in order for it to be recognized, but I could not seem to do so without the keyboard being recognized (I believe this is the step I am messing up). Regardless, my end goal is to configure my F62 in HHKB split backspace configuration.

I believe I have the hex file and the JSON files that appropriate for the the HHKB split backspace configuration. So I 'THINK' I am good to go, once I can solve the flash issue. Please let me know if you can help. The VIA program looks much more user friendly than QMK, so I was hoping to use that instead, but perhaps this is a mistake?

My H key also does not appear to be working, but I think that needs an entirely different fix.

Thanks for all and any help!

I would suggest you download the following parts into one folder:
* QMK Toolbox (https://github.com/qmk/qmk_toolbox/releases)
* VIA (https://github.com/the-via/releases/releases/tag/v1.3.1)
* Firmware for VIA and F62 (https://www.bucklingspring.com/download ... model-f62/)

Next steps:
* Unzip the Firmware and Via files
* Startup QMK Toolbox
* Load the Via Firmware (hex file) into the Toobox
* Press and hold left and right shift and the key B on your keyboard - a yellow text appears in the QMK Toolbox
* click the button "Clear EPROM"
* click the button Flash, once the text appears that you can now flash the keyboard
* Once complete, close the QMK Toolbox

Next steps (also the steps you need to do in future, when you want to change the layout):
* Open the VIA application
* Click on Settings and enable "Show Design tab"
* Click on Design Tab
* drag and drop the JSON file that was part of the VIA zip file into the square
* Go to Configure, Layout, and select your keyboard layout

Above is also part of the PDF included in the ZIP.

Hope this helps

Hello,

Very interested in getting VIA, as I had success and a good experience with the install process and functions on my prior mechanical keyboard.

I'm unable to load the firmware using QMK toolbox, i suspect due to the error: " dfu-programmer: no device present.".

Here are the steps I followed:
1. Downloaded firmware drivers for F77
2. Opened previously installed QMK toolbox.
3. In QMK, selected the firmware file (hex).
4. Lshift + R shift + B --> *** Atmel DFU device connected: ATMEL ATmega32U2 DFU [yellow text]
5. Clicked Clear EEPROM
--> *** Attempting to flash, please don't remove device [yellow text]
>>> dfu-programmer atmega32u4 erase --force [white text]
dfu-programmer: no device present. [grey text]
>>> dfu-programmer atmega32u4 flash --force /Users/brand_new_model_f_f77_via_all_keys.hex
dfu-programmer: no device present.
>>> dfu-programmer atmega32u4 reset
dfu-programmer: no device present.
6. Deleted QMK toolbox, downlaoded/installed latest version.
7. Repeated steps 1-5 with same results.

Not sure if it matter (for QMK toolbox at least), but I'm running macOS (intel).

[darkcruix]

You need to select ATmega32u2 in the dropdown (towards the left side). You have atmega32u4 selected. After that it should be working as expected.

[Ellipse]

Dye sublimation update: The factory has been very busy with the sublimation over the past month. While the factory was training the new workers last month, production was of course not full speed, and they were also keeping a closer eye to make sure that the dye sublimation quality standards were being met.

The factory reports that so far about 1,800 US regular pearl/pebble key sets have been produced, as well as a number of the HHKB and Mac sets. The factory is on schedule to finish up the sublimation in the next two months.

The first international artwork has been completed by Zed - it is the UK set (the next most popular set by order quantity) - that's probably the next set they will work on, along with producing some sample sets of Industrial SSK blue as well as some dark gray sets.

[DrivenKeys]

Dye sublimation update: ...along with producing some sample sets of Industrial SSK blue as well as some dark gray sets.

Awesome news, I'm eager to see the industrial blue printed, and eventually on my F77.

[Ellipse]

Solenoid configuration - some helpful advice from pandrew.

There were some reports of the new solenoids not operating under full power - this is due to the default QMK settings that require adjustment.

For the new solenoids, since they are far beefier than the originals, they need a little more dwell time to actuate to the full force and full volume. Examples of different dwell settings and the sounds for each can be found in my YouTube video below.

My recommendation is to set the dwell time to 20 ms to 30 ms.

To do this, go into Via or the QMK configurator and per pandrew: "map the HPT_DWLI (and HPT_DWLD) keycodes into their keymap, and press HPT_DWLI 16 times, to get it to 20 ms." (the default setting is 4ms). I will be doing this with the firmware loaded onto each keyboard going forward.

There is a retract setting for xwhatsit firmware that does not exist in QMK - for xwhatsit firmware the important thing is to set the retract to longer than the extend time, say 30ms to 40ms. If you do not do this, the solenoid may not function properly. Per pandrew: "The current QMK implementation doesn't have a retract time (it's effectively zero), and can't currently be adjusted."

[darkcruix]

Thanks pandrew for all the work and effort you put in and all the help on top of it ... !!! ...

[Muirium]

How about beepers?

[darkcruix]

How about beepers?

Beepers work perfectly
I have the details described in the manual @ https://www.bucklingspring.com

[Muirium]

I ask because my OG Kishsaver is running Pandrew’s firmware and though it beeps on power up, I can’t get it to do so on key presses. My beamspring is fine though.

[darkcruix]

I ask because my OG Kishsaver is running Pandrew’s firmware and though it beeps on power up, I can’t get it to do so on key presses. My beamspring is fine though.

Check out the cabling - I had to make the described adjustment. If connected correctly, the beeper should work out of the box. A solenoid controller is not required.

[cwcowell]

Congratulations to Ellipse on his amazing accomplishment at getting these keyboards designed, built, and shipped. The hardware is fantastic.

I'm having a heck of a time with the firmware on my F77.

It came with xwhatsit firmware, but I couldn't find a threshold value that allowed all keys to register while also not spamming with extra keys, so I decided to install QMK.

I flashed the QMK firmware successfully, using a hex file www.modelfkeyboards.com/code. It works, but the key layout is not what I wanted, so now I'm trying to create and flash a different QMK key layout.

The online QMK configurator didn't work for me at all. It seemed buggy and broken. So I tried the VIA app, which worked much better. Using VIA, I was able to design a keyboard layout that I was happy with. I exported it as a JSON file.

Now I'm trying to use erase my keyboard's EEPROM by flashing it with the eeprom_erase.hex file, using the QMK Toolbox app. But I can't get the keyboard to go into bootloader mode. I've tried all the keypress combos listed on https://beta.docs.qmk.fm/tutorial/newbs_flashing, but none of them give me the yellow line of text in QMK Toolbox.

Any more ideas for how to get it in bootloader mode? I'm loathe to open it up and try the hardware methods.

[darkcruix]

Congratulations to Ellipse on his amazing accomplishment at getting these keyboards designed, built, and shipped. The hardware is fantastic.

I'm having a heck of a time with the firmware on my F77.

It came with xwhatsit firmware, but I couldn't find a threshold value that allowed all keys to register while also not spamming with extra keys, so I decided to install QMK.

I flashed the QMK firmware successfully, using a hex file www.modelfkeyboards.com/code. It works, but the key layout is not what I wanted, so now I'm trying to create and flash a different QMK key layout.

The online QMK configurator didn't work for me at all. It seemed buggy and broken. So I tried the VIA app, which worked much better. Using VIA, I was able to design a keyboard layout that I was happy with. I exported it as a JSON file.

Now I'm trying to use erase my keyboard's EEPROM by flashing it with the eeprom_erase.hex file, using the QMK Toolbox app. But I can't get the keyboard to go into bootloader mode. I've tried all the keypress combos listed on https://beta.docs.qmk.fm/tutorial/newbs_flashing, but none of them give me the yellow line of text in QMK Toolbox.

Any more ideas for how to get it in bootloader mode? I'm loathe to open it up and try the hardware methods.

Just to understand the task you want to accomplish... You want to get a different firmware installed? After you have configured your layout, you actually won't need to flash anything - it'll just work.

But just in case, you need to set the RESET command to any key using VIA. If you press this key, your keyboard will go into the DFU mode where you can flash another firmware.

Hope this helps.

[cwcowell]

@darkcruix Thank you -- I didn't realize that when you configure a key layout with the VIA app, it just works without any additional flashing. Sure enough, that's what's happening now -- I make tweaks in the VIA app and immediately the keyboard uses that keymap. Magic! No need to flash another firmware since VIA makes that unnecessary. Thanks again.

[darkcruix]

@darkcruix Thank you -- I didn't realize that when you configure a key layout with the VIA app, it just works without any additional flashing. Sure enough, that's what's happening now -- I make tweaks in the VIA app and immediately the keyboard uses that keymap. Magic! No need to flash another firmware since VIA makes that unnecessary. Thanks again.

That's the pure beauty of VIA ...

[Xcore]

It took me about a week during the evenings, but I managed to read through all 204 pages of this thread. Wow!

The journey through the history of this project was amazing and gave me interesting insight in the production process. It put everything into perspective a lot more! So thanks Ellipse, Zed, pandrew, darkcruix and all others for being my entertainment during last week and making this project awesome! Ellipse, I'm looking forward to read your book.

I want to share, why this project has personal relevance for me:
In 2009 I tried a Model M the first time and I really loved the clicky-tactile feel of it. But for the next two weeks the the joints of my fingers hurt so much, I was unable to type at all! I ordered and tried a RealForce Topre – but after just a minute, I realised I hate the typing feel and can't stand to type on it. (But the board cured the pain in the fingers of a friend I gave it as a gift, so there must be something to it.) I went to MX Blues and then shortly after to Browns, which are a lot lighter to press. So for the last years a filco with Browns has been my daily driver; the feel is okay or goodish, but yeah. When I read about this project and the reviews of the Brand New Model F, I concluded that the capacitive buckling spring keys are a lot lighter to press, while offering an even better feel than the Model M. Using an old XT as a model, I have confirmed the absence of joint pains from typing on it. Therefore I anticipate that this project will allow me to type on buckling spring style keys again, but without pain

[Ellipse]

I have finally set up for myself a local way of compiling the firmware through the command line so that I can update the factory default solenoid dwell times, add in darkcruix's patch for excluding certain keys for the solenoid, allow NKRO but disable it by default, etc.

Keyboards going out starting this week will use the latest QMK firmware. Files are also available on the project web site - About - Code page.

The instructions from pandrew were very helpful but for a beginner such as myself, I needed step by step instructions which I have updated below. This will allow those with little to know programming knowledge to adjust the settings in QMK that cannot be adjusted from the QMK configurator GUI web site.

At the bottom of this post you can download my latest JSON files and the latest firmware, which uses the current QMK branch as of today, with the above-mentioned changes, and with pandrew's Model F-specific additions to QMK that have made all of this possible.

Once again much thanks to pandrew and darkcruix for their outstanding work on QMK and Via. As a note the attached firmware is not Via compatible but it can be made compatible.

To customize Via firmware beyond layout customizations (for example, to make all the above changes), please contact darkcruix, who put together a document listing changes in the code to get the firmware working with Via. You currently lose the ability to diagnose the controller in pandrew's QMK utility if you use Via firmware. To just have Via with the default settings that cannot be changed in the Via program, please refer to darkcruix's post where you can download the Via hex file and start customizing from there without having to set up linux: viewtopic.php?p=482036#p482036

new procedure from scratch Ubuntu install:
download and install Ubuntu in a Virtual Machine

open Terminal program and enter one line at a time:

sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade -y
sudo apt install python3-pip
sudo python3 -m pip install qmk
echo "PATH=$PATH:$HOME/.local/bin" >> ../.bashrc
sudo apt install git
qmk setup
git clone [insert URL here - contact pandrew for access to pandrew's git project]

do this action-not a command in terminal
copy keyboards/xwhatsit folder to qmk_firmware/keyboards folder
delete everything in the ubuntu home folder except the QMK_firmware and desktop directories - the xwhatsit folder has all the changes in QMK

code changes to make
config.h in the folder of the keyboard you want to update - in my case, keyboards/xwhatsit/brand_new_model_f/f77/wcass
lines 286-287
#define SOLENOID_DEFAULT_DWELL 20
#define SOLENOID_MIN_DWELL 20

replace haptic.c file in qmk_firmware/drivers/haptic folder with darkcruix's updated file to allow customization of which keys trigger the solenoid (modifier keys by default will not trigger the solenoid unless you change the below line to #define HAPTIC_EXCLUSION_KEYS 0):
https://github.com/darkcruix/qmk_firmwa ... c/haptic.c

add to end of file - new line:
#define HAPTIC_EXCLUSION_KEYS 1

in rules.mk:
line 40:
NKRO_ENABLE = yes # USB Nkey Rollover
add this line at bottom:
LTO_ENABLE = yes # Link Time Optimization - reduces file size

put the json file with your custom layout (the file you created in QMK configurator) in the root of the Home folder
command to set the keyboard - can change F77 to F62 in this example if you have an F62:

qmk config user.keyboard=xwhatsit/brand_new_model_f/f77/wcass
qmk compile "../1.json"
it will give a random name and place the file in the root qmk_firmware folder - not the name of the json file, so if compiling multiple layouts, rename the newly created hex file before proceeding to compile the next layout
../ means go up one folder from qmk_firmware folder

examples:
qmk config user.keyboard=xwhatsit/brand_new_model_f/f77/wcass
qmk compile "../F77_-_ANSI-ISO_-_0-9.json"
qmk compile "../F77_-_ANSI-ISO_-_PrintScr.json"
qmk compile "../F77_-_HHKB_2U_backspace_-_0-9.json"
qmk compile "../F77_-_HHKB_2U_backspace_-_PrintScr.json"
qmk compile "../F77_-_HHKB_split_backspace_-_0-9.json"
qmk compile "../F77_-_HHKB_split_backspace_-_PrintScr.json"
qmk compile "../F77_JIS_-_PrintScr_-_need_to_do_0-9_layout_and_add_function_layer.json"
qmk compile "../zF77_-_HHKB_split_backspace,_everything_else_ANSI_-_0-9.json"
qmk compile "../zF77_-_HHKB_split_backspace,_everything_else_ANSI_-_PrintScr.json"
qmk compile "../zF77_-_HHKB_Split_Shift,_everything_else_ANSI_-_0-9.json"
qmk compile "../zF77_-_HHKB_Split_Shift,_everything_else_ANSI_-_PrintScr.json"

to then switch to compiling f62's:
qmk config user.keyboard=xwhatsit/brand_new_model_f/f62/wcass
qmk compile "../F62_-_ANSI-ISO_-_Regular_2U_or_Split_Backspace.json"
qmk compile "../F62_-_HHKB_-_Regular_2U_Backspace.json"
qmk compile "../F62_-_HHKB_-_Split_Backspace.json"
qmk compile "../zF62_HHKB_split_right_shift_only,_everything_else_ANSI.json"

[Kugelkopf]

Is there a reason to use Ubuntu? Wouldn't any *nix do?

I've just installed python3 and pip on Mavericks a few days ago without problems (needed a way to automatically convert some Excel files to more engine-friendly CSV data) so I'm wondering, if Macs running OS X could be used, too?

Moreover the requirement to empty one's home folder sound very awkward and quite impractical. Are there ways to tweak paths to circumvent this demand (without creating another dummy user)?

[raoulduke-esq]

Is there a reason to use Ubuntu? Wouldn't any *nix do?

I've just installed python3 and pip on Mavericks a few days ago without problems (needed a way to automatically convert some Excel files to more engine-friendly CSV data) so I'm wondering, if Macs running OS X could be used, too?

Moreover the requirement to empty one's home folder sound very awkward and quite impractical. Are there ways to tweak paths to circumvent this demand (without creating another dummy user)?

The joy of using a *nix OS like macOS is that you can do all of this in the native Terminal. I'm a macOS user and I've not had to set PATH and I don't run QMK from my ~ folder or do anything funky. I just put QMK wherever I want and run all the make commands from the top level QMK folder. QMK comes with a setup script to help ensure you get all the dependencies.

Seeing that folks have to create a Ubuntu VM to use QMK makes me understand why all these Windows folks seem to prefer Soarer's Converter even though QMK is still under active development and very powerful.

[Ellipse]

Importing the latest qmk project and also pandrew's fork with qmk as of about one year ago creates duplication, so I recommend deleting the extra files and using all the latest qmk except pandrew's xwhatsit folder containing the Model F specific updates to avoid confusion if you're in a VM. It's just my recommendation.

This setup is especially for Windows users as I could not get it working reliably there - maybe others will be able to. I am not familiar enough with Mac and the many linux variants other than Ubuntu to offer any recommendations there, but it seems like they would be fine alternatives. Certain commands are slightly different on some linux variants so this setup is geared towards other beginners who want everything to work exactly as written.

[cods]

Is there a reason to use Ubuntu? Wouldn't any *nix do?

I've just installed python3 and pip on Mavericks a few days ago without problems (needed a way to automatically convert some Excel files to more engine-friendly CSV data) so I'm wondering, if Macs running OS X could be used, too?

Moreover the requirement to empty one's home folder sound very awkward and quite impractical. Are there ways to tweak paths to circumvent this demand (without creating another dummy user)?

The joy of using a *nix OS like macOS is that you can do all of this in the native Terminal. I'm a macOS user and I've not had to set PATH and I don't run QMK from my ~ folder or do anything funky. I just put QMK wherever I want and run all the make commands from the top level QMK folder. QMK comes with a setup script to help ensure you get all the dependencies.

Seeing that folks have to create a Ubuntu VM to use QMK makes me understand why all these Windows folks seem to prefer Soarer's Converter even though QMK is still under active development and very powerful.

Whilst I'm yet to get my Big Package O' Keyboards, I've been trying to stay up to date with what I'll need to do when they arrive.

I'm a macOS user, with no access to any Windows machines where I have admin user capability.

I'll admit I had totally assumed that using QMK or any other tool would be Windows-only, so I'm blown away that I am wrong and the utilities are cross-platform, and I can use one of my Macs. Sweet!

[Muirium]

…all these Windows folks seem to prefer Soarer's Converter even though QMK is still under active development and very powerful.

Mac user here who prefers Soarer. So much so I patched it for 64 bit to keep it running.

Soarer’s blows QMK away for macros. Love the way it does them! The two things are quite different, so there’s swings and roundabouts to be found in all their rival features.

[Kugelkopf]

The joy of using a *nix OS like macOS is that you can do all of this in the native Terminal. I'm a macOS user and I've not had to set PATH and I don't run QMK from my ~ folder or do anything funky. I just put QMK wherever I want and run all the make commands from the top level QMK folder. QMK comes with a setup script to help ensure you get all the dependencies.

Seeing that folks have to create a Ubuntu VM to use QMK makes me understand why all these Windows folks seem to prefer Soarer's Converter even though QMK is still under active development and very powerful.

Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't referring to the PATH (which could easily be adjusted, anyways), but to paths hard coded within the software that would require all things to reside within the otherwise empty home folder. Nice, if there is a "configure" equivalent.

Thanks to Ellipse, too, for providing some insight regarding the reasons to ask for Ubuntu with an empty user's home. Knowing the background makes it easier to decide on less elaborative alternatives.

[Ellipse]

I have just updated the QMK files on the project web site to include Via with the updates I noted a few posts up (also attached). The zip file includes the layout files and hex files for Via QMK and for non-Via QMK.

Please follow darkcruix's post for more details on setting up Via:

viewtopic.php?p=482408#p482408

[Ellipse]

Additional commands in the current firmware:

Hold down the keys Fn+Spacebar+
T-->Toggle the Solenoid On/Off Any key HPT_TOG
+= Increase Solenoid dwell time HPT_DWLI
-_ Decrease Solenoid dwell time HPT_DWLD
E-->EEPROM Reset (erases all settings like if you adjusted a dwell time for solenoid)
R-->Reset (enter bootloader)
D-->Debug

Command keys: hold Left Shift + Right Shift +
B-->Enter Bootloader
N-->Toggle N-Key Rollover (NKRO) (off by default to maximize compatibility)
Others: https://beta.docs.qmk.fm/using-qmk/adva ... re_command

NKRO note as relayed to me:
Why there is not NKRO by default: When the USB Human Interface Device protocol was designed, they had a limit of 6 keys in there. This is the minimum all systems agree on (including BIOS etc.). NKRO is not standardized and there is a good chance, the keyboard doesn't work in certain circumstances. In fact, on a Mac you can't get into the recovery mode or NVRAM. On a PC, it depends on the UEFI designer, but I have seen problems with HP laptops.

[Ellipse]

Dye sublimation update on the blue printed US ANSI, UK pearl/pebble, and dark gray US ANSI printed key sets:

The factory reports they have completed 150 blue, 50 UK, and 125 gray key sets and will be mailing them to me by express air shipping in the coming days, with the next batch of pearl/pebble US ANSI sublimated key sets. Also sending 60 blue hhkb 6 key sets and the same number of gray sets, plus 15 6 key mac sets each for both these colors. I will be posting photos soon after!

This means that orders containing these key sets will be eligible to get into the queue for shipping assuming everything is in stock (the split shipping option is not available any more) - we are still going in the original shipping order where possible so shipping is still going to be months away for most orders as I am the final bottleneck of the project, inspecting each keyboard and putting each order together one at a time. As noted earlier I am unable to estimate where any one particular order is in the queue but I send out a tracking number by email as soon as each order ships.

[DrivenKeys]

That's the pure beauty of VIA ...

It's been a while since I've considered updating my firmware. Am I to understand that QMK with VIA support is fully functional? I wanted to wait for VIA to get reliable until I start flashing things.

[darkcruix]

That's the pure beauty of VIA ...

It's been a while since I've considered updating my firmware. Am I to understand that QMK with VIA support is fully functional? I wanted to wait for VIA to get reliable until I start flashing things.

I am using it since about a month on the F62 and F77 without any problems. The VIA enabled firmware is essentially the same QMK version as before with the option to store the key layout in a portion of the flash memory that is not part of the firmware itself. This allows on-the-fly changes of the layout without re-flashing.

[darkcruix]

I was doing some work on getting proper buckling spring keycap storage systems and display trays created. I thought I am sharing the results here also:

IMG_4496.JPG (346.23 KiB) Viewed 10528 times

IMG_4497.JPG (383.25 KiB) Viewed 10528 times

IMG_4499.JPG (257.93 KiB) Viewed 10528 times

[Wazrach]

After nearly 10 months of owning my classic F77, it's nearly perfect. Up until recently, it has always been far from it.

I had non-stop issues with the two shift keys. They would bind pretty horribly. A remedy I really didn't like was having to open up the keyboard and experiment with little bits of foam to prevent this, which cushioned the key travel and just wasn't very pleasant. The actual reason this happened (at least in my case) is because the barrels weren't super tight against the PCB, allowing the inserts to travel further than necessary and cause binding. The keyboard must have received a nasty knock in shipping, as I received a "parcel damage noted" update when checking the tracking. Because of this, the tabs of the assembly were just barely biting, which is why I experienced these issues straight away.

The fix was a new reassembly technique where I used foldable paper clips to keep the assembly together and a bar clamp to pull the plates together. Before, I would always use unnecessarily-strong spring clamps and a hammer to tap the plates together - they don't mate as well with this method for whatever reason. I now totally understand fohat.digs' rambling about the "sliding force fit" being so important. This, in turn, means the assembly is tighter than ever - especially with the case screws nice and tight. The barrels have zero wiggle and you can hear it in the sound.

The black blank keycaps look absolutely gorgeous and compliment the classic black case really well. Unfortunately, my set is gritty, bindy and causes a slightly inconsistent key feel across the board. I'm now using original IBM XT keycaps and Model M modifiers for the time being - the original Model F keycaps are way nicer. I'm going to guess this is just a bad batch of black keycaps considering the positive feedback regarding the quality of the new keycaps. I'm hoping the keycaps with my new order will be much better, because they look fantastic.

The spacebar hasn't been quite right for a while. It dislodged during shipping so Ellipse's manual tweak was wasted. I haven't been quite able to get it sounding perfect for a while. When it doesn't rattle, it sounds pretty hollow and noisy. I now have it sounding passable thanks to a single O-ring (16mm OD 12mm ID 2mm Width - thanks Hypersphere for the idea!) around the barrel with the spring. The travel is ever-so-slightly reduced, but the sound is much more comfortable.

I really hope this helps other people get closer to keyboard perfection - please don't go through the same hell I did!

[Xcore]

A cool idea, darkcruix! Are this already ellipse's keys? Because the print looks very sharp!

I have ordered a black classic case with blank black keycaps as well. Hopefully the shipping handlers will be more gentle to the package. Thanks for these tips, Wazrach! I watched the typing demonstration of your keyboard recently.