resolved - need community advice on ebay purchase gone awry (IBM F AT)

[Tritian]

Crossposted from Reddit.

I purchased a Model F AT from Ebay for $220 after some negotiation.

Eventually, it arrived damaged. The seller did not package it well at all, placing it in a cardboard box with almost no packaging material except 2 cardboard inserts on either side.

PICTURES: https://imgur.com/a/bJy089W

The damage is this:

1. Paint chips and dings all over the keyboard, with the largest chunks being on the impacted corner
2. One broken barrel for the F9 key.
3. A moderately sized piece of the case, left corner underneith, has been broken off
4. One front retention clip has been sheered off. The case does not close as solidly anymore and squeeks.

I opened a refund request with ebay, and uploaded the images. The seller told me to be patient while he contacts FedEx insurance, and I should have a refund early next week. He told me that FedEx might be by to pick the keyboard up, or they might not. However:

1. I know FedEx doesn't move that fast.
2. Why would my refund be contingent on him contacting FedEx? Shouldn't he give me the refund and THEN work out whatever the hell he needs to with FedEx Insurance?

Around mid-week of the next, I commented on the ebay ticket wondering where my refund was. He ghosted me, did not reply! Another day or two later the refund request ticket timed out, and now I was given the option to have Ebay step in and rule, so thats what I did.

Ebay's position is that I should return the keyboard to the seller and then I will get my refund. And here comes my problem and the point for this reddit post:



This seems fishy. If I return the keyboard, he will get money from FedEx Insurance AND be able to re-list the item to someone else and basically double dip. My position is, why should he benefit from his shit packaging job? Why should I be the one inconvenianced by all of this?



So here are my options.

1. Return the keyboard. I get a refund, he gets Insurance payout AND a keyboard to relist as parts
2. Do a PayPal chargeback. I get refund, he gets Insurance payout, but I keep the keyboard to hopefully salvage and restore, or maybe FedEx will come pick it up.
3. I contact him, and if he doesn't ghost me, maybe we work something out where I pay some amount and he refunds me the rest. This option bothers me because he will still get the Insurance from FedEx, but also my money from the deal. I'm not sure why he should benefit from such an incompetent packaging job.

What do you guys think?

[motoko]

You're protected in all cases. Get your money back and forget him. You can leave negative feedback accordingly.

[John Doe]

Seems we live in a ridiculous system SOMETIMES, you didnt make your job good but you profit from this still.

This is the so called life?

[XMIT]

Maybe you should send the guy some live cockroaches. That's what eBay used to do to intimidate people.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/15/tech ... -face.html

[inozenz]

Maybe you should send the guy some live cockroaches. That's what eBay used to do to intimidate people.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/15/tech ... -face.html

Ah yes, the good ol' times.

[ntv242ver2]

Get your money back first, that should be your focus. What he does get or does not get really shouldn’t matter to you. If the package is insured by fedex and they did fuck it up for him, then it is in his entire right to get compensated by fedex WHILE still get the board back. I really see no problem with this situation at all and i think that is irrelevant to you as a buyer

[Tribal]

Ouch. That’s really frustrating.

If you want your money back then you need to return the keyboard. You gave him money for an item - neither of you gets to keep both without the keeper committing fraud. You can choose how you want to proceed, but your options are to return it for a refund or to keep it. I’m fairly sure eBay will protect you even if the guy stiffs you.

I’ve had things arrive damaged or not as described from eBay. Their requirement is that you ship it back at seller expense. If he won’t generate a ticket then do what eBay tells you (such as paying postage yourself and submitting a bill) if you want them to reimburse you if he doesn’t.

Practically speaking, he doesn’t have a working AT, either. He’s unlikely to be able to sell it again for anything but parts. Any insurance provider will pay him according to their agreement- and might decline if he was negligent.

Do the right thing on your end (especially since it’s also the legal thing). The rest will take care of itself.

[Tritian]

UPDATE: I offered him a fair partial refund amount but he's ghosting me again so I guess I'll return this thing. It's sad because I can probably restore it with some superglue/baking soda, paint and replacing the barrel... it'd be a pita but i'd do it if he offered me a reasonable partial refund.

Oh well.

Anyone have an F AT they wanna sell me?

[XMIT]

Sorry, just had a chance to actually read this thread, prior flippant comments about cockroaches notwithstanding.

Patience.

Was this item shipped insured with FedEx? If so file a claim with FedEx. It will take a month. Show them the photos on your imgur post. But make sure your captions support the claim that the seller did, in fact, package the board adequately. Otherwise liability will fall with the seller for insufficient packaging.

Packing these keyboards is really hard. I wanted to share my current standard for packing, using an Unsaver as a model.

Tape down the Space bar with mailing tape. Wrap the cable connector with packing paper or small bubble wrap (not shown). Place the keyboard in a large zipper bag to prevent water damage en route. Wrap with about 10 square feet of large bubble wrap. Wrap large packing peanuts in with the board to protect the top and bottom edges.

IMG_20210410_164940.jpg (628.33 KiB) Viewed 11581 times

Wrap the bubble wrap around the board. Tape the ends of the bubble wrap so the board doesn't slide out.

IMG_20210410_165425.jpg (828.58 KiB) Viewed 11581 times

I double box the board. The inner box is a USPS Priority Mail Board Game Box for larger boards, and a ULine or similar keyboard box for smaller boards. For the board game boxes, assemble them, and put packing peanuts in one end. This protects the ends of the boards.

IMG_20210410_161207.jpg (412.4 KiB) Viewed 11581 times

Insert the board...

IMG_20210410_165542.jpg (1.96 MiB) Viewed 11581 times

...and then put packing peanuts in the top end before closing the box.

IMG_20210410_165653.jpg (1.82 MiB) Viewed 11581 times

Assemble the outer box. I will use a ULine 24 x 12 x 6 inch box. I will seam seal the bottom of the box...

IMG_20210410_161731.jpg (417.29 KiB) Viewed 11581 times

...as well as do an inner seal on just the bottom of the box.

IMG_20210410_161834.jpg (301.02 KiB) Viewed 11581 times

Then I make a sandwich: packing peanuts, inner box, and more packing peanuts all go into the outer box.

IMG_20210410_165817.jpg (328.9 KiB) Viewed 11581 times

IMG_20210410_165858.jpg (756.4 KiB) Viewed 11581 times

Finally, I seam-seal the top of the box same as the bottom and give it a few good shakes.

[Tritian]

I believe the fedex insurance claims need to be handled by the seller, not much I can do with FedEx. I'm resigned to just shipping the board back, and I will be sure to pack it significantly better than how he packed it. Hopefully whoever he sells it to will restore it and give it a good home.

I wouldn't mind restoring it myself but I feel weird doing that at the price I paid, and he refuses to discuss partial refund options.

Regarding your packing instructions... I sure as hell wish he had packed it like that.

[Polecat]

In my experience FedEx (especially FedEx Ground) almost never pays insurance claims, even when they outright lose the item. And yes, it's the seller who would have to file the claim. Unless it was shipped through a third party, like one of their dropoff stations, in which case that business has to file the claim, since they are considered the "shipper". We had to stop using them at my last job because of that.

Philosophically our world has evolved to a self-centered way of thinking, where everyone wants things set up so they can't possibly lose, even when they make a mistake. The days of being honorable in one's dealings are sadly gone.

[XMIT]

FedEx paid out when they dropped my Selectric. It took about three weeks of sending photos and pinging them by email. I filed the claim as the recipient. Anyway, good luck.

[Palatino]

Sorry, just had a chance to actually read this thread, prior flippant comments about cockroaches notwithstanding.

Patience.

Was this item shipped insured with FedEx? If so file a claim with FedEx. It will take a month. Show them the photos on your imgur post. But make sure your captions support the claim that the seller did, in fact, package the board adequately. Otherwise liability will fall with the seller for insufficient packaging.

Packing these keyboards is really hard. I wanted to share my current standard for packing, using an Unsaver as a model.

Tape down the Space bar with mailing tape. Wrap the cable connector with packing paper or small bubble wrap (not shown). Place the keyboard in a large zipper bag to prevent water damage en route. Wrap with about 10 square feet of large bubble wrap. Wrap large packing peanuts in with the board to protect the top and bottom edges.

IMG_20210410_164940.jpg

Wrap the bubble wrap around the board. Tape the ends of the bubble wrap so the board doesn't slide out.

IMG_20210410_165425.jpg

I double box the board. The inner box is a USPS Priority Mail Board Game Box for larger boards, and a ULine or similar keyboard box for smaller boards. For the board game boxes, assemble them, and put packing peanuts in one end. This protects the ends of the boards.

IMG_20210410_161207.jpg

Insert the board...

IMG_20210410_165542.jpg

...and then put packing peanuts in the top end before closing the box.

IMG_20210410_165653.jpg

Assemble the outer box. I will use a ULine 24 x 12 x 6 inch box. I will seam seal the bottom of the box...

IMG_20210410_161731.jpg

...as well as do an inner seal on just the bottom of the box.

IMG_20210410_161834.jpg

Then I make a sandwich: packing peanuts, inner box, and more packing peanuts all go into the outer box.

IMG_20210410_165817.jpg

IMG_20210410_165858.jpg

Finally, I seam-seal the top of the box same as the bottom and give it a few good shakes.

This is glorious. Pure packing porn. Just what my eyes needed after having a fully working Selectric arrive in one thin cardboard box with some token bubble-wrap stuck to bits of it. It's smashed to oblivion. I want to buy anything from you now - keyboard, vase, unboiled egg, you name it - just to be able to have it arrive in exactly the condition it left.

[Tritian]

*UPDATE* Got a partial refund from the seller after a few days of silence and I'm slowly restoring the board. I ANSI modded it (minus alts for now) and fixed the barrel. Will need some glueing work on the case and some painting... not looking forward to painting...

[XMIT]

I want to buy anything from you now - keyboard, vase, unboiled egg, you name it - just to be able to have it arrive in exactly the condition it left.

Oh what luck, I just posted some boards for sale. I'll toss in an unboiled egg just for you. How you explain that to Customs, I don't know.