TACTILITY(and clicky)

[Tritian]

That's called Ping. Many Alps and Model M's and F's have this aswell. There are ways to considerably mitigate it if you want. (floss mod, or lubing springs)

Here is my floss modded Model F repro vs an Apple M0110 that uses tall cream alps (skcc)

Listen to how crisp the Model F is. You can also really hear the ping on the alps SKCC board. It's almost musical.

[A_Person]

srry, I am on my school chromebook atm and can't watch any youtube videos but you can't hear it from a decent distance and also it isn't entirely unpleasant, so... yeah!

[hellothere]

For modern, Kalih Box Jade Thick Clicks with a Box Navy for the spacebar. I think they sound better than a Model M (don't fite me). I bought them through novelkeys.xyz. I know that they're often sold out, so I'd be happy to sell you my Box Jade KB for $1100. I'll even take care of shipping.

#1, thx for the info, and number 2, I'm not that stupid, I'm not gonna buy any keyboard for 1100 dollars, much less one that isn't even vintage. Nice try tho.

and if you mistyped and meant to say 110$, then nm but I still don't need to buy it.

I'm sure that was a typo.

No, it was a joke. Sorry. I'll stop trying to be funny.

I did sell one of the KBs I customized with Box Navys for considerably more than I expected and recently sold another KB for almost 3x more than I thought it would sell for. I'm also 100% sure that there's one person on this forum that did spend $1100 on a keyboard and there are probably more than just one member here who has. Would I spend $1100 on a keyboard? Not unless I win the lottery. I'd actually do one of three things if I had an extra $1100 lying around: buy a Herman Miller Embody chair (if you haven't tried one, you really should), get a new tile floor in my office, or update my computer setup.

[raoulduke-esq]

The Embody is my daily driver and I can 100% vouch for it being worth every cent and more. I have damaged discs and this chair facilitates the right support and posture to make work possible.

[A_Person]

Oh. Sorry about that. I mean, 110 bucks isn't that bad for a keyboard, so I kinda just assumed it was a typo. Also, I'm sure if it was worth it someone would buy that, but it would have to be a really good opportunity and I am a kid, so by the time I mustered enough money for it, it would be long gone. That's why I said that I would never buy a keyboard for that much. Not that I wouldn't more that I couldn't. If it really was of interest to me, I'd probably go for it, but only if it was a crazy opportunity.

[A_Person]

And I wouldn't dream of having the Embody chair at least until I am older so....

[hellothere]

And I wouldn't dream of having the Embody chair at least until I am older so....

Y'know, it's not a bad idea to take care of your back and/or posture while you're young. Future you might really appreciate it. I'm currently rocking a Steel Case chair that I bought as "renewed" and it was in the $200-ish range. Before that, I had an Ikea chair which, although very inexpensive, was featured on a lot of top 10 ergo chair lists.

If you ever have the option to buy something that has an ergonomic option, go for it. That might be something as simple as spending an extra $10 on your shoes or going all out on an ergo keyboard -- which I don't use because I don't really know how to type.

Or, looking at it a different way, do things to make your life as comfortable as possible, whenever possible.

[A_Person]

I get that, and I bet that the embody chair is really comfortable, but there is one small caviat... And that is the fact THAT IT COSTS 1200 BUCKS!

[Rayndalf]

Or, looking at it a different way, do things to make your life as comfortable as possible, whenever possible.

This is definitely true. It's worth investing in the things you use all the time (chair, couch, bedding materials and computer peripherals). You'll be getting value out of them every day (not like an expensive car or boat you might struggle to find time to enjoy).

I mean it's usually worth buying things that make you happy (as long as they are NFTs), but don't forget the value of nice toilet paper or a nice pillow.

I get that, and I bet that the embody chair is really comfortable, but there is one small caviat... And that is the fact THAT IT COSTS 1200 BUCKS!

What are used prices like? I know used Aerons are in the $300 range where I am, I'd assume they're cheaper other places. I've heard stories about the surplus of used Aerons after the dotcom bubble burst.

[A_Person]

Yeah, I will definitely invest in a better chair sometime in the near future, it just probably won't be something as fancy as the Embody. I was thinking more of a nice ergo chair around the 100-200 dollar range. Also, I don't know if anyone would know this, but I keep hearing people talk about how gaming chairs aren't comfortable. But then why does everone buy them! I see them everywhere! Are they really that bad if everyone gets them?

(I love how our conversation has gone from keyboard switches to office chairs )

[Muirium]

Gamer chairs? Everyone? Not me.

I was only ever really into strategy games in 256 colours. You know, hardcore.

[Bjerrk]

As for the chairs, it seems that everything that has that gamer aesthetic sells like crazy these days. Crappy or not.

[vvp]

Most people buy things for their look or the current fashion trend. Functionality is of lower importance for them.

[hellothere]

Gamer chairs? Everyone? Not me.

I was only ever really into strategy games in 256 colours. You know, hardcore.

I like playing Civilization and Alpha Centauri. Oh. SimCity 2000, too.

One thing I'd love to try is to get a good-condition, fully electrical, front seat from a junked luxury vehicle and use that as either a work chair or as an alternative to buying a new recliner. The only disadvantage I can think of is that I really like adjustable arm rests.

[A_Person]

Most people buy things for their look or the current fashion trend. Functionality is of lower importance for them.

Oh. I get why people would make that choice, but for me, I think the point of a chair is kind of the comfort, so I would definitely go for something that's geared toward that rather than asthetics.

[Rayndalf]

One thing I'd love to try is to get a good-condition, fully electrical, front seat from a junked luxury vehicle and use that as either a work chair or as an alternative to buying a new recliner. The only disadvantage I can think of is that I really like adjustable arm rests.

I'd love to find a seat out of an newer Volvo. I'm using the seat out of a 1996(?) C class Mercedes. Had to pull the power adjustment system, but pleather and foam over springs is surprisingly comfortable even after hours of sedentary mindlessness (as a car seat would have to be I imagine).

[an_achronism]

To briefly address the originally stated topic (not that I don't appreciate the chair chat, as someone currently stuck with a work-supplied crappy office chair atm), I'm on a similar quest myself at the moment.

I think I've got it narrowed down to three of the Box switches: Noble Yellow, (NovelKeys) Pink, and (NovelKeys) Navy. The Navy seems like it might be a little on the heavy side, but I'm concerned that either of the other two might be too light for my preference, and I don't know if there's much in between. Context: my current preferred key feel is a "New Model M" from Unicomp, though if I were to nitpick I'd say that it's perhaps a hair too heavy for my ideal preference, and I'd almost certainly prefer a well-loved Model F. Other Box switches that might be worth looking into are Pale Blues and maybe Royals, though the Royals aren't *meant* to be clicky so that sort of puts me off them a bit (it's all very well if the lube wearing off turns them clicky but no sane person uses every key evenly so it'll be inconsistent and annoy me).

I think I'm going to have to just order a few testers and try to decide based on that, but I'm in the UK and incredibly impatient and it's going to take some time for a Chinese AliExpress order to get here...

My current plan is to rip the switches (MX Blues, for shame) out of a recently repaired/modded full-size ISO layout Corsair board and replace them with a full set of whatever Box switch (or alternative) I end up going with. I'm a little concerned about this whole keycap-wrecking debacle but I suppose starting out by putting them on the Corsair board with stock keycaps is a reasonable way of testing that; if the stock keycaps do get strained/cracked, then it'll be a bit annoying but hardly the end of the world.

[andresteare]

Yeah I've heard of that but the thing is its all out of stock on nk and on amazon it would take like a month to get here because its sold by ymdk and doesn't offer prime shipping

You know that they are available on aliexpress, right?

[A_Person]

If you want to continue to use this post to discuss other things, then continue to do so but as for the original post my questions have been answered by the helpful communities of deskthority and geekhack. Thank You!

(just in case, this post was not meant to give offense, only to signify the end of the thread, I have been given what many would call "hate" for more blunt posts in the past, and do not want this post to have a similiar fate.)

[Bjerrk]

If you want to continue to use this post to discuss other things, then continue to do so but as for the original post my questions have been answered by the helpful communities of deskthority and geekhack. Thank You!

(just in case, this post was not meant to give offense, only to signify the end of the thread, I have been given what many would call "hate" for more blunt posts in the past, and do not want this post to have a similiar fate.)

HOW DER U SIGNIFY END OF TREAD. I HAT U !

[Bjerrk]

Ahem ...

I think I've got it narrowed down to three of the Box switches: Noble Yellow, (NovelKeys) Pink, and (NovelKeys) Navy.

Have you seen any measured force curves on the pinks and noble yellows? The official ones in the spec sheets seem awfully similar (but I always have my doubts about those):


Looks very nice, though!

As for the box navies, HaaTa has kindly produced some force curves:

[zrrion]

IIRC the noble yellow has the spring from a box white, with the clickbar from the pink, so the force curve should be pretty similar

[an_achronism]

Aye, I did check out the force curves and I had heard that the Noble Yellow was more or less a Pink with the lighter spring from the White. What confused me was seeing people complain about the Pink while praising the Noble Yellow for reasons that didn't make much sense until I got that the Pink supposedly has the click bar angled differently, which has the effect of reducing the click (apparently inconsistently) on the return/upstroke as I'd seen in Chyros' video about them. It seems like perhaps the Noble Yellow uses the same bar but angles it differently, that being the main physical difference other than the spring weight.

My suspicion is I'd prefer the heavier weight of Pinks considering how much I like buckling springs and I like very much the idea of a bit of resistance after the tactile event to help cushion the bottom out, which I get the impression only applies to the Pinks and not so much the Yellows due to the weighting. Really, I need a tester with all of these on it.

[hellothere]

I think I've got it narrowed down to three of the Box switches: Noble Yellow, (NovelKeys) Pink, and (NovelKeys) Navy. The Navy seems like it might be a little on the heavy side, but I'm concerned that either of the other two might be too light for my preference, and I don't know if there's much in between. Context: my current preferred key feel is a "New Model M" from Unicomp, though if I were to nitpick I'd say that it's perhaps a hair too heavy for my ideal preference ...

IMO, if you think that the Model M is a bit too heavy, then box Navy will be too heavy for you. Box Jade is a couple steps down on the heaviness scale. I'd actually like slightly lighter, but Chyros mentioned that you start getting the problem of the keys not popping up all the way/sticking.

I'd almost certainly prefer a well-loved Model F.

I don't think they're much heavier than the M. Maybe a bit. You're going to have to modify the stabilizer for the spacebar. It's EXTREMELY heavy.

My current plan is to rip the switches (MX Blues, for shame) out of a recently repaired/modded full-size ISO layout Corsair board and replace them with a full set of whatever Box switch (or alternative) I end up going with.

That's essentially what I've done with the Pinks, Jades, and Navys I tried. I do have a desoldering gun, so I can do this fairly quickly, but I'm really considering investing in a GMMK or other hotswap, because there are some other MX-mount switches I'd like to try and desoldering and resoldering can get really annoying.

What you might want to do is what I did: just replace the alphanumeric block, the spacebar, and the modifier keys. You'd save a bit of cash. Personally, I think this is better than just buying a little tester.

[an_achronism]

IMO, if you think that the Model M is a bit too heavy, then box Navy will be too heavy for you.

Yes, I expect so too, but there seem not to be many options that are vaguely in the same arena as buckling springs so I feel like I should at least give it a bash.

I'd almost certainly prefer a well-loved Model F.

I don't think they're much heavier than the M. Maybe a bit. You're going to have to modify the stabilizer for the spacebar. It's EXTREMELY heavy.

If anything, I was under the impression the F might be slightly lighter, not heavier, than the M, although some will argue they're more or less the same. I wouldn't know, but I have two model F boards en route to me, so I guess I'll find out. The heavy space bar is something I'm aware of but actually think I might like. It's the one key I don't mind being heavy as hell. My partner recently got a wee hot swap board with Gateron Reds (her choice, after I clued her in with a quick rundown of what sorts of switches were available) and the first thing she said was that it was too easy to press space, so I swapped the space bar spring with the one from a Gateron Green and it's significantly more satisfying. But I'm sure the F space bar is WAY heavier than that, hahah...

Personally, wherever possible, I'd rather keep things as they are on a vintage board and modify as little as possible. But if they're knackered, you don't have much choice. I just got a 1990 Model M and it kinda breaks my heart but I think I'm going to have to disassemble it entirely and do a bolt mod to get it back together, not because I think the rivets are deteriorated to the point where that's necessary, but because I think it has internal dirt/corrosion issues inside the assembly that I can't see or get to without pulling it apart. The thing was absolutely foul when it arrived and a load of black sooty-lookin' dirt fell out when I turned it over; the membrane tabs are all black as well. I guess it was kept in an excessively humid/damp place and stored for years so there's been a certain amount of water ingress.

That's essentially what I've done with the Pinks, Jades, and Navys I tried. I do have a desoldering gun, so I can do this fairly quickly, but I'm really considering investing in a GMMK or other hotswap, because there are some other MX-mount switches I'd like to try and desoldering and resoldering can get really annoying.

I would ideally get a good hot-swap board but the problem is there seem to be almost none in full size and I don't want anything less than full size. I am a num pad addict, for starters, and I touch type, so I don't want anything that will mess with my muscle memory too much (so things like 96% layouts aren't that appealing either because I'll keep hitting arrow keys when going for right Ctrl, and stuff like that). Similarly, since my main interest just now is IBM boards and I use Alt Gr quite often, I'd rather stick mainly to vintage boards that have the Alt Gr / right Alt key right at the lower left corner of the right Shift key instead of the more modern way of having it shunted to the left to make room for Windows/Menu/Function keys that I don't use anyway.

How did you feel about the Pinks? I've heard kinda mixed things but my supposition is that I'd mostly find them quite nice. Supposedly the return click isn't very consistent and can be reduced or more or less eradicated depending on how you press a key, which is a minor annoyance, potentially. Based purely on information (I haven't tried any of these yet) I think the Pinks sound like they might be my frontrunner, with the Noble Yellow maybe being the next most likely to be my cup of tea (probably a tad light though).

[Bjerrk]

I'd rather keep things as they are on a vintage board and modify as little as possible. But if they're knackered, you don't have much choice. I just got a 1990 Model M and it kinda breaks my heart but I think I'm going to have to disassemble it entirely and do a bolt mod to get it back together, not because I think the rivets are deteriorated to the point where that's necessary, but because I think it has internal dirt/corrosion issues inside the assembly that I can't see or get to without pulling it apart. The thing was absolutely foul when it arrived and a load of black sooty-lookin' dirt fell out when I turned it over; the membrane tabs are all black as well. I guess it was kept in an excessively humid/damp place and stored for years so there's been a certain amount of water ingress.

Ach, that sucks! But there is a silver lining. In my experience (from which I will just wildly extrapolate), the more work you put in to restore an old keyboard, the more you end up loving the damn thing in the end!

[an_achronism]

Ach, that sucks! But there is a silver lining. In my experience (from which I will just wildly extrapolate), the more work you put in to restore an old keyboard, the more you end up loving the damn thing in the end!

Oh, aye, absolutely. My favourite Mega Drive is a wrecked "Asian" one I got on eBay mis-sold as a Japanese model, which I tore down, cleaned thoroughly, replaced the crystal oscillator (master clock) and rewired with a switch to run any game from any region natively, then rewired the expansion slot on so I could use it to faciliate a further modification to a Mega CD sub-console.

But aye, this 1990 M is only missing like 3 rivets, so I was really pleased with that and hoped it would mean I could leave it alone, so it's a shame that it looks like that isn't the case. I actually bought it expecting to have to bolt mod it, so doing the work is not in any way a disappointment in and of itself, I'm only a bit sad about it because it turned out not to have loads of missing rivets but it seems necessary for other reasons. I might have to replace some springs too, but I'll see after I see the inside of the assembly sandwich.

[ifohancroft]

Box: the reason you kept all those shitty modern MX caps that came preinstalled on keyboards in the first place. Test and ruin those ones first. Protip!


viewtopic.php?p=420302#p420302

Damn Muirium! You are a genius! That's a brilliant idea! I was trying to get rid of my stock keycaps without throwing them away as I would have felt bad to just do that, but now I have a reason to keep at least some.

[hellothere]

That's essentially what I've done with the Pinks, Jades, and Navys I tried. I do have a desoldering gun, so I can do this fairly quickly, but I'm really considering investing in a GMMK or other hotswap, because there are some other MX-mount switches I'd like to try and desoldering and resoldering can get really annoying.

How did you feel about the Pinks? I've heard kinda mixed things but my supposition is that I'd mostly find them quite nice.

It's been a little while and I no longer have all pinks in a KB, but I'm pretty sure I posted that Pinks were the switches that Cherry MX blues wishes they were. Better tactility. Better sound. Approximately the same weighting. When I get around to it, I should mount these in my mechanical 10-key.

I struggle a lot with weighting (cue obvious joke). I like those Jades an awful lot, but I also really like my Apex Pro that has the linear Hall Effect switches. That's a big difference in weighting and I often have to type on a keyboard for a couple of days before I like them again.

I just found out that you can get some of the Box switches on Amazon. That's cool.

Personally, if I knew of a switch that sounded like the Box Navy and felt like salmon or orange Alps, I'd be an extremely happy camper. I'll grant that blue Alps are close ...

I am a num pad addict, for starters, and I touch type, so I don't want anything that will mess with my muscle memory too much

While all the keyboards I have, except for one, are 100%, I kinda like TKL because I can move my keyboard closer to my trackball. It eases some strain on my shoulder.

[hellothere]

Box: the reason you kept all those shitty modern MX caps that came preinstalled on keyboards in the first place. Test and ruin those ones first. Protip!


viewtopic.php?p=420302#p420302

Damn Muirium! You are a genius! That's a brilliant idea! I was trying to get rid of my stock keycaps without throwing them away as I would have felt bad to just do that, but now I have a reason to keep at least some.

But ... will it blend?