Seeking Soarer - evidence thread

[depletedvespene]

I feel like I should say that we can disagree without insulting each other and that we will be more productive if we just discuss where we disagree and how each thinks we should proceed, but then we won't get gems like: piss your pants and get banned from a theater
So I guess go at it, but also get shit done

Well, there IS a limit for the funky shiRt in a thread, and someone has gone way past it. Hell, the best potty-mouthed comedians know that curse words, however foul or mild, have to be used sparingly and at the precise moments, not relentlessly spammed within a vitriolic and pointless monologue.

P.S. I feel for the judge who will actually have to read this thread if the time comes.

[jmaynard]

Yeah this whole "we need to post his name and address on deskthority dot net" shit is mental. Even if you decided to go down this process, why would you not contract a professional entity, for example, one that immediately comes to mind, LexisNexis Risk Solutions, to do what they do as a job, which is tracing people in the UK?

This is just insane. If you wanted to do this properly and not be super creepy weirdos, you'd do it the way that credit referencing agencies and real proper institutions do it.

Yeah right. Tracking down someone's current status on your own is creepy, but paying someone a substantial sum of money to do the same thing isn't?!

[shallot]

Yeah this whole "we need to post his name and address on deskthority dot net" shit is mental. Even if you decided to go down this process, why would you not contract a professional entity, for example, one that immediately comes to mind, LexisNexis Risk Solutions, to do what they do as a job, which is tracing people in the UK?

This is just insane. If you wanted to do this properly and not be super creepy weirdos, you'd do it the way that credit referencing agencies and real proper institutions do it.

Yeah right. Tracking down someone's current status on your own is creepy, but paying someone a substantial sum of money to do the same thing isn't?!

Yeah the main difference here is if you use a proper tracing company, you don't post personally identifiable information on the internet for everyone to see without permission and that company is bound by the relevant data protection laws in the jurisdiction in which it operates, which in the UK are quite strong.

[depletedvespene]

First off I just wanna say I love DT. Seeing threads get derailed like this warms my heart.

But in all seriousness I would consider Soarer's converter deprecated at this point. When I have tried to use it with modern operating systems(windows 10 for example) I run into all sorts of problems.

That's never happened to me here.

But... what if it were a problem that can be fixed?

Aside from that I would also say if the goal of tracking down Soarer's personal info and finding his widow is to merely get permission to expand on his work, I don't think there's much of a point. If soarer died it would be better not to bother his family or bring more attention to him irl

William died; let's not bother republishing Romeo and Juliet. (?)

[shallot]

Yeah this whole "we need to post his name and address on deskthority dot net" shit is mental. Even if you decided to go down this process, why would you not contract a professional entity, for example, one that immediately comes to mind, LexisNexis Risk Solutions, to do what they do as a job, which is tracing people in the UK?

This is just insane. If you wanted to do this properly and not be super creepy weirdos, you'd do it the way that credit referencing agencies and real proper institutions do it.

Yeah right. Tracking down someone's current status on your own is creepy, but paying someone a substantial sum of money to do the same thing isn't?!

But no, I'm sure you Americans will get everything 100% correct. It's not like I haven't seen this kind of arrogance about how other jurisdictions work from Americans constantly. "Anglo-American law" in the OP is a huge alarm bell.

[Redmaus]

Guys just release the source. Like who cares, you really think some guy who is either dead or left the community all the sudden is going to care if soarer's is decompiled???

[jmaynard]

Yeah the main difference here is if you use a proper tracing company, you don't post personally identifiable information on the internet for everyone to see without permission and that company is bound by the relevant data protection laws in the jurisdiction in which it operates, which in the UK are quite strong.

The fly in your ointment is that, in case this needs to go to court, the name and other details become a matter of public record anyway.

And Soarer would be beyond caring.

"Anglo-American law" in the OP is a huge alarm bell.

Since Soarer is known (and has been stated in this very thread) to have lived in the UK at relevant times, UK law is what applies. Yes, there are differences, but the basics are the same.

[ifohancroft]

I feel like I should say that we can disagree without insulting each other and that we will be more productive if we just discuss where we disagree and how each thinks we should proceed, but then we won't get gems like: piss your pants and get banned from a theater
So I guess go at it, but also get shit done

Well, there IS a limit for the funky shiRt in a thread, and someone has gone way past it. Hell, the best potty-mouthed comedians know that curse words, however foul or mild, have to be used sparingly and at the precise moments, not relentlessly spammed within a vitriolic and pointless monologue.

P.S. I feel for the judge who will actually have to read this thread if the time comes.

Well, it's not that I don't agree but when was the last time you have seen telling people on a forum to behave, work?

Got his real name and last address when I sent him something. Searched for it. I'd say he values his privacy and would hate to see those details published on the Internet.

I may be reading too much into this, but what you have said sounds like you have found something when searching for him?

Soarer released his convertor for free so waiting 7 years to sue someone seems extremely improbable.

There's a big difference between releasing a binary for free and releasing the source code.

But exactly who would do anything about it? Copyright just gives the holder the right to pursue legal action, it isn't just automagically enforced, right?

I guess what I'm saying is stop complaining and go do crime, no one will stop you.

The 'Stop complaining and go do crime' part sounds almost like a motivational poster (I'm saying that as a good thing).

Speaking of which, whoever has already reverse engineered his code, would you mind sending it to me? I won't be releasing it, I'm asking for it for personal use.

P.S. Who's tron guy?

Jmaynard's username is a reference to this guy, he was a meme at some point for his groovy Tron suit.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Maynard

Thank you!

[shallot]

I am once again in awe of the fact that you'd rather take this to court than just cleanrooming the converter you're so obsessed with.

[shallot]

Got his real name and last address when I sent him something. Searched for it. I'd say he values his privacy and would hate to see those details published on the Internet.

ding ding ding

[depletedvespene]

Guys just release the source. Like who cares, you really think some guy who is either dead or left the community all the sudden is going to care if soarer's is decompiled???

A few years ago, I ragequit an SF flash fiction writing community when I decided I sucked donkey balls at the whole thing, and should stick to non-fiction reference manuals (I later learned this is a common feeling among most writers, but that's another issue). I still get upset whenever someone reposts one of my old stories with their own name, or does a "youtube reading" of it without permission... even though I abandoned the whole thing, those are my stories, thank you very much. Intellectual property is intellectual property, and it's everyone's duty to respect it.

[JP!]

I'll just leave this here: viewtopic.php?t=7177

[Rayndalf]

Aside from that I would also say if the goal of tracking down Soarer's personal info and finding his widow is to merely get permission to expand on his work, I don't think there's much of a point. If soarer died it would be better not to bother his family or bring more attention to him irl

William died; let's not bother republishing Romeo and Juliet. (?)

Shakespeare is a bad example, his works were collected from various unofficial sources and edited to what ever people thought was best and sold with no regard for copyright. Part of what makes them so good is that so many scholars have gone through them removing "later additions" or artifacts from bad copies, but mostly just combining the best parts of each and doing good editing.

Leaving Soarer's unchanged is like not editing Shakespeare. It's brilliant but there are points that could be improved.

[Myoth]

I don't care. Not gonna pretend to respect this batshit insane endeavour.

Proceeds to trainwreck an entire thread LOL

bruv, u bein a bit rich ?

Doing some shitposts on a forum vs doxxing someone hmhmhm

Aight since you actually think I compared your endeavour to theirs. I don't agree with either side. You're not some kind of superior authority, I disagree with the OP's will to bring back from the dead a very old project AND doxxing a precious member of this community but you cannot shamelessly come in here, apply your values to the situation, react to it and then proceed to aggravate anyone who disagrees with you, you're not alone in this thread and certainly not the only one with an opinion. You have, you made it loud and clear but now you can shove it, you should've realised almost anyone who disagrees with you has discarded you by now. You're just being obnoxious and jarring.

I should really reiterate this point, linuxman ideology is virulent libertarianism and doesn't give a shit about whether people get exploited for not having the ability or time to do dev stuff. This kind of holier-than-thou bullshit fake meritocratic bullshit is some of the worst mind cancer out there. Yes, software should be free. No, it shouldn't be used to drain the pockets of people who can't get on with doing the gruntwork.

Allowing this fake-ethical brain poison into an already heavily exploited hobby is a recipe for disaster.

moreover, have you read this back ? this makes no damn sense, if anything you're being as righteous as they are LOL also, was it not you who had the GNU/Linux copypasta macro'd onto their beamspring ? me thinks you're being kind of antagonastic towards your own kind of holier-than-thou folk

[ifohancroft]

Guys just release the source. Like who cares, you really think some guy who is either dead or left the community all the sudden is going to care if soarer's is decompiled???

A few years ago, I ragequit an SF flash fiction writing community when I decided I sucked donkey balls at the whole thing, and should stick to non-fiction reference manuals (I later learned this is a common feeling among most writers, but that's another issue). I still get upset whenever someone reposts one of my old stories with their own name, or does a "youtube reading" of it without permission... even though I abandoned the whole thing, those are my stories, thank you very much. Intellectual property is intellectual property, and it's everyone's duty to respect it.

While I do agree with you about the Intellectual property, I feel like people presenting your stories as their own is different (and worse) than reverse engineering Soarer's converter and controller and releasing the source as his source.

[Redmaus]

Yeah I'm not saying decompile it and pass it off as your own, just release the source knowing it came from soarer so other people can improve it.

[Rayndalf]

Guys just release the source. Like who cares, you really think some guy who is either dead or left the community all the sudden is going to care if soarer's is decompiled???

A few years ago, I ragequit an SF flash fiction writing community when I decided I sucked donkey balls at the whole thing, and should stick to non-fiction reference manuals (I later learned this is a common feeling among most writers, but that's another issue). I still get upset whenever someone reposts one of my old stories with their own name, or does a "youtube reading" of it without permission... even though I abandoned the whole thing, those are my stories, thank you very much. Intellectual property is intellectual property, and it's everyone's duty to respect it.

But the files he uploaded are still where he uploaded them. He never took them down or deleted his account, he just left them there. I don't think he hates what he made, and even if he did would we hold that against his work? It's good stuff.

As for your stories, it might be embarrassing but it's safe to say people actually like them. You don't have any duty to make them easy to find though.

[depletedvespene]

Aside from that I would also say if the goal of tracking down Soarer's personal info and finding his widow is to merely get permission to expand on his work, I don't think there's much of a point. If soarer died it would be better not to bother his family or bring more attention to him irl

William died; let's not bother republishing Romeo and Juliet. (?)

Shakespeare is a bad example

It was just a quick example. I felt that "Genaro died; let's not bother republishing El Socio." would be a tad too obscure (even though it very much mirrors the current situation). Also, IIRC, we have a total counterexample in Kafka's works (just to muddle the issue).

Leaving Soarer's unchanged is like not editing Shakespeare. It's brilliant but there are points that could be improved.

Precisely. Being able to (legally) modify Soarer's code would allow the community to improve on its few shortcomings and perhaps correct Redmaus' reported problem. Unlike what someone in this thread seems to think, it's not about recovering the source and then not touch a single byte on it. But we do need to know first if that can be done, don't we?

[shallot]

Once again: there is an established way of doing this without legal liability, and that's to cleanroom the software.

Surely easier than going to these lengths.

[ifohancroft]

Once again: there is an established way of doing this without legal liability, and that's to cleanroom the software.

Surely easier than going to these lengths.

Would you mind elaborating on that please?I mean I am not entirely sure what cleanrooming a software mean

[shallot]

Once again: there is an established way of doing this without legal liability, and that's to cleanroom the software.

Surely easier than going to these lengths.

Would you mind elaborating on that please?I mean I am not entirely sure what cleanrooming a software mean

Someone with access to the decompiled source reviews it and writes a specification. Another dev that has never had sight of the source then reimplements from the spec. The result is new work.

[esr]

The downshouters here might want to think about what kind of incentives they're creating.

When you recruit someone to apply specialist knowledge to solve a community problem, then greet the attempt with vicious personal attacks...it's not likely to go entirely unnoticed in the future.

Consider that, and reflect whether it might be in your interests to put on a more civilized face.

[shallot]

The downshouters here might want to think about what kind of incentives they're creating.

When you recruit someone to apply specialist knowledge to solve a community problem, then greet the attempt with vicious personal attacks...it's not likely to go unnoticed in the future.

Consider that, and reflect whether it might be in your interests to put on a more civilized face.

I don't think anyone recruited you mate, you just announced yourself.

[depletedvespene]

Guys just release the source. Like who cares, you really think some guy who is either dead or left the community all the sudden is going to care if soarer's is decompiled???

A few years ago, I ragequit an SF flash fiction writing community when I decided I sucked donkey balls at the whole thing, and should stick to non-fiction reference manuals (I later learned this is a common feeling among most writers, but that's another issue). I still get upset whenever someone reposts one of my old stories with their own name, or does a "youtube reading" of it without permission... even though I abandoned the whole thing, those are my stories, thank you very much. Intellectual property is intellectual property, and it's everyone's duty to respect it.

But the files he uploaded are still where he uploaded them. He never took them down or deleted his account, he just left them there. I don't think he hates what he made, and even if he did would we hold that against his work? It's good stuff.

And points back to the core problem: we don't know what happened. Did he ragequit? Did he die? Did he lose interest? Did he lose a bet? If nothing else, I think most of us here will have closure with a simple, limited declaration in regards to the matter. (... as webwit is seemingly suggesting???)

As for your stories, it might be embarrassing but it's safe to say people actually like them. You don't have any duty to make them easy to find though.

I got yelled at for deleting the stories from my website, and I know someone later lamented that the Internet Archive only archived the stories index but not the goods. I've toyed more than once with the idea of putting back the three or four (or five, depends on the day) that don't suck, but something else always takes my attention away. I gotta wonder if my next of kin will be able to find the zipfile they're packed at, though.

[esr]

I don't think anyone recruited you mate, you just announced yourself.

Muirium did. He promised the community a thread on solving the problem, expecting me to start it.

[esr]

P.S. I feel for the judge who will actually have to read this thread if the time comes.

At this point I no longer expect that to happen - the thread is now too polluted with irrelevant junk.

What will probably need to happen is that I cooperate with the attorney on my team to write an evidence brief using links and statements harvested from this thread.

Again, for those of you who have not been paying attention: Nobody wants this to go to court. But by compiling the kind of record you could put in front of a judge if you need to, you can attach it to a response letter to a hypothetical copyright troll's C&D and demonstrate that they have effectively no chance of collecting anything more than de minimis damages that wouldn't cover their legal fees. And that is how you stay out of court.

Do I think that copyright troll is going to actually materialize? No, I do not - Rayndalf is probably not wrong about that. But I was asked to attack this problem and I am doing it the best way I know how, armoring us against the worst case. I've been here before. I've done this sort of paralegal thing for literally billion-dollar stakes that make $200 look like a rounding error. If anyone had printed the T-shirt, I'd have it.

[mode1ace]

Do I think that copyright troll is going to actually materialize? No, I do not - Rayndalf is probably not wrong about that. But I was asked to attack this problem and I am doing it the best way I know how, armoring us against the worst case. I've been here before. I've done this sort of paralegal thing for literally billion-dollar stakes that make $200 look like a rounding error. If anyone had printed the T-shirt, I'd have it.

Big manning isn't impressive bro.

[webwit]

If someone in the UK doesn't mind paying 3 GBP and promises me to keep the address private and not pass it on, you can register here and check the owner(s) of his last known address:
https://eservices.landregistry.gov.uk/e ... iryInit.do
The free info says there is no "price paid/value stated information available for this property", which most likely means it wasn't sold since they started registering that in 2000. Could lead nowhere, could lead to a confirmation he is not dead.

Edit: also looked for death records, not found.

[esr]

Big manning isn't impressive bro.

Or, you know, I could write this crowd off as a bunch of ungrateful assholes and go do something more fun, like, say...having a root canal.

[depletedvespene]

Big manning isn't impressive bro.

Or, you know, I could write this crowd off as a bunch of ungrateful assholes and go do something more fun, like, say...having a root canal.

Indeed, a few bad apples spoil the whole barrel.