Seeking Soarer - evidence thread

[Redmaus]

Broadens the risk of nothing happening. Oh no!

[zrrion]

And every public explanation of why you are wrong that you pry out of me increases and broadens the risk.

if it can be destroyed by the truth it deserves to be destroyed by the truth, just leave it well enough alone

[esr]

if it can be destroyed by the truth it deserves to be destroyed by the truth, just leave it well enough alone

This isn't about "the truth" in that sense. It's about not handing free causes of action to legal trolls.

[depletedvespene]

…
Exactly my point actually. Orihalcon has been selling his converters for over half a decade and nothing has happened to him.

That does NOT guarantee that no one can show up suddenly and demand back payments and royalties and whatnot — this ain't trademark law.

[Steve Brule]

thanks for posting my recipe Moerkedal

[vincent]

deskthority is cancer

I hope not! Hi, everyone. I just joined.

[PancakeMSTR]

I wonder if this thread would be helpful?

[HerbalNekoTea]

You know Soarer's probably long fucking dead from something like cancer and his body now full of worm or it ashed body would not care anyway about what happened to his code. He has no way to profit from it being probably dead and he never had any of his familly use the code to make the profit he could had made in those 5 years since he was gone. So even if it's not GPL, WHO CARE ABOUT THE LICENSING. I am a dirty pirate and simply fucking forked it, downloaded a local copy twice. Just to be sure it will stay online. Nothing happen after your are dead. Religion's a sham and after you are dead, the world continue. I am sure my dead dad who died in July 2015 would have no say on the next election and would not care about the dang lockdown since it's not something he could had the occasion to reflect on "Am i for or against" when he was alive 7 years ago. If code was to be public domain after the death of an author, if it was not his wish to have it opensourced by his familly when he died, it should be public domain 5 years later if the new owner (his familly) did fuck all in 5 years. I fucking deleted all the 20TB of pirate movies and music my dad had in his hdd, put fucking pirated video game, anime and more into it. I would totally not listen to 1960'S rock and roll and other shitty french music taste he had. We also sold his vinyls collection and his house to be sure we would had not to leave the gov take ownership of his stuff due to debt in mortgage. Did i give any shit about his vinyl, not really, i would not want to seek what i want in FUCKING 20K VINYL RECORD. At this point, i find the GPL license nice but also super limited when it come to fucking stuff not being GPL to be incorporated into it. Fucking Shift-JIS for linux being BSD license... it still piss me off to trying to find a way to have it native on Linux... Just my 2cents.

[Rayndalf]

Don't you think water boarding is going a bit far?

Just a random thought that contributes nothing:

Soarer shared his code under a username that was never concretely tied to a real name or address, so basically anyone could claim to be Soarer for legal purposes, right? If no one knows his identity then how could anyone file a troll lawsuit?

What if Soarer just got frustrated with his projects but continued in the community under a different name? Orihalcon, Muirium, or Shallot, basically anyone could actually be Soarer in disguise

[vincent]

Don't you think water boarding is going a bit far?

Just a random thought that contributes nothing:

Soarer shared his code under a username that was never concretely tied to a real name or address, so basically anyone could claim to be Soarer for legal purposes, right? If no one knows his identity then how could anyone file a troll lawsuit?

What if Soarer just got frustrated with his projects but continued in the community under a different name? Orihalcon, Muirium, or Shallout, basically anyone could actually be Soarer in disguise

If that is the case, then we are all Soarer on this blessed day.

[nobatron]

His name is Robert Paulson

[shallot]

You know Soarer's probably long fucking dead from something like cancer and his body now full of worm or it ashed body would not care anyway about what happened to his code. He has no way to profit from it being probably dead and he never had any of his familly use the code to make the profit he could had made in those 5 years since he was gone. So even if it's not GPL, WHO CARE ABOUT THE LICENSING. I am a dirty pirate and simply fucking forked it, downloaded a local copy twice. Just to be sure it will stay online. Nothing happen after your are dead. Religion's a sham and after you are dead, the world continue. I am sure my dead dad who died in July 2015 would have no say on the next election and would not care about the dang lockdown since it's not something he could had the occasion to reflect on "Am i for or against" when he was alive 7 years ago. If code was to be public domain after the death of an author, if it was not his wish to have it opensourced by his familly when he died, it should be public domain 5 years later if the new owner (his familly) did fuck all in 5 years. I fucking deleted all the 20TB of pirate movies and music my dad had in his hdd, put fucking pirated video game, anime and more into it. I would totally not listen to 1960'S rock and roll and other shitty french music taste he had. We also sold his vinyls collection and his house to be sure we would had not to leave the gov take ownership of his stuff due to debt in mortgage. Did i give any shit about his vinyl, not really, i would not want to seek what i want in FUCKING 20K VINYL RECORD. At this point, i find the GPL license nice but also super limited when it come to fucking stuff not being GPL to be incorporated into it. Fucking Shift-JIS for linux being BSD license... it still piss me off to trying to find a way to have it native on Linux... Just my 2cents.

Herbal showing up is the best thing that's happened to this thread, and I am 100% sincere when I say this

[shallot]

Don't you think water boarding is going a bit far?

Just a random thought that contributes nothing:

Soarer shared his code under a username that was never concretely tied to a real name or address, so basically anyone could claim to be Soarer for legal purposes, right? If no one knows his identity then how could anyone file a troll lawsuit?

What if Soarer just got frustrated with his projects but continued in the community under a different name? Orihalcon, Muirium, or Shallot, basically anyone could actually be Soarer in disguise

I'm spartacus

[Muirium]

I'm spartacus

No, you're just a troll.

[shallot]

Honestly esr I hope you have to explain every single bit of your stupid plan. This is classic fucking 'I'm so smurt' shit, you bang on about wanting to get soarer declared dead, then suddenly it's 'well ACKSHULLY I never wanted to do that! I've only been posting about doing it for 10 pages! you're so fucking retard bad poster!'

I would posit it is in fact you who are the retard bad poster who is constantly moving the goalposts in this thread.

[shallot]

I'm spartacus

No, you're just a troll.

you are a bad poster

[Muirium]

A thoroughly conceived argument like that sure burns!

Maybe I'll learn how to do it better someday.

[shallot]

A thoroughly conceived argument like that sure burns!

Maybe I'll learn how to do it better someday.

I really hope so. It is incredibly tedious watching you post up a storm of out of date bollocks as facts in every thread. Latest one that pissed me off was you trying to discourage someone from finishing their aek2 project cause of your own biases. That's not keyboard excellence.

[Muirium]

Neither is the AEK2.

They're worth a little work if starting from a good point. But that board's switches were trashed. I recall you advising a rolling Matias upgrade. Something like that sounds a nightmare. A mediocre board that keeps on breaking. Excellence indeed.

[Bjerrk]

I really hope so. It is incredibly tedious watching you post up a storm of out of date bollocks as facts in every thread. Latest one that pissed me off was you trying to discourage someone from finishing their aek2 project cause of your own biases. That's not keyboard excellence.

Why exactly does posting this bring you pleasure? Do you generally like being mean to people - as in bullying?

And before you say things like "this is the internet" or "free speech": Don't.

[shallot]

Neither is the AEK2.

They're worth a little work if starting from a good point. But that board's switches were trashed. I recall you advising a rolling Matias upgrade. Something like that sounds a nightmare. A mediocre board that keeps on breaking. Excellence indeed.

Yeah, this is the kind of pretentious garbage elitism I'm on about. I might be a prick but at least I don't actively try to discourage people from doing the hobby we're all here to do.

[shallot]

I really hope so. It is incredibly tedious watching you post up a storm of out of date bollocks as facts in every thread. Latest one that pissed me off was you trying to discourage someone from finishing their aek2 project cause of your own biases. That's not keyboard excellence.

Why exactly does posting this bring you pleasure? Do you generally like being mean to people - as in bullying?

I bully bullies. esr is one of those.

[Bjerrk]

I bully bullies. esr is one of those.

I don't know about that, but Muirium certainly isn't. He's generally a very helpful individual. If you think he's deserving of bullying as well, I'd encourage you to somehow find a way to be more of a kind person.

[shallot]

nothing about this thread brings me pleasure. if this forum had active mods it would be long gone.

[Bjerrk]

nothing about this thread brings me pleasure. if this forum had active mods it would be long gone.

All the same, the bullying is not okay. Please try to meet other members with kindness in the forum.



In fact, the lax moderation makes it even more important that we take it upon ourselves to be kind to each other.

[nobatron]

I don't think attempting to doxx a former member counts as being kind to one another.

[Muirium]

I don't think attempting to doxx a former member counts as being kind to one another.

A straw man argument the like of that bollocks certainly isn't kind.

[Rayndalf]

I don't think attempting to doxx a former member counts as being kind to one another.

A straw man argument the like of that bollocks certainly isn't kind.

I agree with most of what you've said, but that's not a strawman, esr has explicitly called on members post Soarer's real name or address. Just because that information is posted with good intentions doesn't make it not doxxing, because once that information is public it can be seen by anyone.

[nobatron]

It's not strawmanning. If esr had suggested a clean room approach from the get go, or switched to that approach this would be a very different thread.

[Muirium]

It's not strawmanning. If esr had suggested a clean room approach from the get go, or switched to that approach this would be a very different thread.

There are problems with a cleanroom re-implementation, as esr and others have discussed (over this thread's breakfast recipe rich previous pages). Personally, I think it shows Soarer no respect at all to clone his work without asking him his thoughts. In fact, if we really are reinventing the wheel, I'd prefer it was to a new design outright. (Again architecturally different from QMK.) But I'm no coder, can't contribute to the effort, and so am irrelevant in the matter!

I agree with most of what you've said, but that's not a strawman, esr has explicitly called on members post Soarer's real name or address. Just because that information is posted with good intentions doesn't make it not doxxing, because once that information is public it can be seen by anyone.

Fair enough. I'll lay out my own position here:

• I'd like the community* to reach out to Soarer to seek his permission to give his code (or Arakula's etc.) a licence, once and for all.
• If Soarer cannot be found, we* should work out whether he's alive or dead. There is a world of difference, even in the seemingly trivial matter of open source software development.
• If he really is sadly gone from the world, then we* should use esr's procedure to seek permission from his estate to open source his keyboard converter / controller.

Yes, it sucks to even think about him being dead. But it happens to all of us. When I lost my mother to cancer, we relatives had to go through a lot of this kind of stuff regards the things she owned and the responsibilities she maintained. It's no fun at all, but it is better to clear it up properly than leave a mess forever.

A mess, which in Soarer's case, he could clear up in a heartbeat if he is still alive and chooses to reply to us.

Now about those *asterisks! The "we" I'm talking about is NOT this public thread where the whole internet can see everything in the open. The "we" is esr and a handful of us already in possession of such things as Soarer's name and address (yes, I have it from 2013) and indeed Arakula's source code. This is inherently private stuff and should not be shared around in the open. So I agree with you on that specific point.

TL;DR: if we're doxxing, we're doing it wrong.