F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[PRIPARA_PLAYER]

I believe the 半角／全角 key needs to be the grave keycode, escape should probably be off on the right with the windows key.
I plan to split left shift and put 半角／全角 there, but I don't think that should be the default.

[:Dön:]

I agree that the 半角/全角 keys are more important than the Esc key. This key is to switch between Japanese and English input.
It would be nice if there was a function to easily switch between the Esc key and the半角/全角 keys.

[an_achronism]

Probably rather premature as I expect my F77 order is a way off being shipped still, but thanks to darkcruix, I have these babies washed, dried, and ready to go:

Update: New transparent cap reproductions now available to order, for delivery around year end 2021 (not until the keyboards have gone out - getting the keyboards out is my continued top priority)

For clarity's sake, if one were to order items like the deprioritised F XT foam or relegendable keycaps, with a current (but not particularly early or low serial number) F77 order still open but not yet shipped, is it realistically going to make any difference whatsoever to shipping time? If I understand you correctly, I believe you are only expecting to get the low serial and early orders shipped by year end, not necessarily all orders until this point. If indeed that is the case, I'm guessing my order placed in April 2021 is likely going to be at least into 2022 before it ships? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

[nickg]

I got both of mine yesterday. Both work perfectly, and the spare one has been resealed/vacuum sealed and put away into storage in case the one i'm typing on now dies in 50 years and the first aid kit I got wont/cant fits it..

Typing feels perfect, exactly what I've come to expect from ibm model f's. That sweet sweet buckling feeling, just a hair lighter/cripser than a model m. So wonderful.

I got the f 77 with original style case, its right about 1 inch longer/wider than unicomp's mini m, but has the functionality of a full sized board with the hhkb layout(got it on both) + numpad(again on both).

Honestly this is better than i was expecting back when i ordered a board in 2016. I was expecting a close knock off, but still a knock off, of the model f. It really is like just another name brand model f right now in terms of feel and *my* usage/use case.

As stated I got mine with the hhkb layout(split shift and backspace) + numpad and arrow keys. I'm going to be honest I cant ever see myself changing the layout, so while I know that a lot of people have issues with the firmware, flashing, and mapping process... Unless I just want the swag of saying mine doesnt have the shipped firmware I cant see myself ever being bothered by it personally, because I got my dream compact layout with it. Been using an hhkb for well over half a decade, all I've ever wanted to add to it was a numpad and arrow keys like this has, now i have that with my favorite switch instead of my second favorite. Yeah, I'm happy. these were worth the ~1k. Now if you'll excuse me im going to play some games and do some coding.

EDIT: pic of board

my based board.jpg (4.95 MiB) Viewed 6372 times

[Ellipse]

an_achronism I noted earlier that the XT foam and relegendable caps are expected to ship separately so they will in no way hold up any orders. Now there's a shipping cost added for all non-keyboard orders during checkout (you can still choose a free shipping option if you're just adding stuff to ship with a keyboard order that has not shipped yet). So the default option when ordering these items is separate shipping.

nickg thanks for sharing your review and photo. Vacuum sealing is an interesting idea. I wonder if vacuum sealing will preserve it and make it last significantly longer, especially with the reduction of air and humidity affecting the springs. Maybe it's better to let the springs corrode over time for that special finely aged sound of the original Model F keyboards?

I also wanted to share (with permission) a nice photo someone sent me of the Industrial SSK Blue Modifier keys with the standard color keys. This is a nice combination.

blueandwhite.jpg (2.46 MiB) Viewed 6275 times

[nickg]

Aging the springs may help for the feel we've all come accustomed to in the modern day. But I've already come across a few model F with rusted springs I've had to fix before. I'm a teeny bit paranoid about those now . Imo the springs feel good enough as is so ima try to prevent it all I can. If this forum is still alive in 40 to 50 years when hopefully open it I'll try to update.

[an_achronism]

an_achronism I noted earlier that the XT foam and relegendable caps are expected to ship separately so they will in no way hold up any orders. Now there's a shipping cost added for all non-keyboard orders during checkout

Right but I obviously wasn't talking about them having separate shipping, that would have been moronic, hahah. What I'm referring to is the other way of doing it, which you've just confirmed remains an option:

(you can still choose a free shipping option if you're just adding stuff to ship with a keyboard order that has not shipped yet).

I'm saying, given that my order has yet to ship, and given that I have basically no idea when it's likely my particular order may ship, would *combining* shipping on stuff like that such that it ships with a keyboard order actually realistically make it take any longer to ship, or not? You seem to be indicating that you're trying to get orders shipped by end of this year, but my interpretation of your phrasing is that you're just trying to get the earliest orders shipped out in that time frame for those who have been waiting years for their keyboards, not necessarily all orders to date. If that interpretation is correct, then presumably my order placed in April 2021 wouldn't be shipping until 2022 anyway, hence combining shipping would make no difference to fulfilment. Is that more or less correct, or are you trying to get all the keyboard orders placed so far shipped by end of year?

Something else I've been wondering is whether replacement foam orders fulfilled moving forward will use the newer, more closely matched type of foam, or the older stock. Could you perhaps comment on that?

[Sp33ls]

I just received my order earlier this week, and I received the replacement foam, but not sure how to ID whether or not it's the "updated" version you speak of...

I also ordered the custom/low serial option, but didn't receive it -- though, I imagine that's due to having swapped out from an F62 to an F77, so that wouldn't be surprising.

I've followed Ellipse's guide on flashing VIA and am currently looking through the forums to see what I may have missed since it seems the two 'blank' keys left and right of the 'up' arrow on the keypad aren't being recognized at all after assigning them to a key.

[Ellipse]

Update: scumyc / scumnc layout

Below are the very first photos of the customized F62 scumyc layout. These keyboards are going out this week to scumyc.

Keen-eyed folks will notice an error in the flipper placement around the | \ and Enter keys for one board - some of the many errors needing to be addressed during the QC process. These errors and other errors such as mislabeled variation numbers from the factory on the boxes have slowed down the QC process and is one of the reasons I will continue mailing out keyboards the rest of the year most likely.

20210624_222905.jpg (135.95 KiB) Viewed 6171 times

20210624_205412.jpg (221.22 KiB) Viewed 6171 times

scumnc layout.png (28.31 KiB) Viewed 6171 times

Sp33ls it looks like you were assigned a serial in the 200s for the one low serial keyboard you ordered - that's definitely a low serial as there are over a thousand zinc case F77 keyboard orders so far.

As noted on the foam, the updated inner foam is not currently available as it's for the final round so no one has this foam just yet.

If you are having issues with key detection in the Via firmware I recommend going back to QMK and using the signal level monitor to 100% confirm everything is in order before switching back.

an_achronism sorry I misunderstood. Yes - I think you are asking if they can ship together if something is in stock at the time an order is going out. The extra foam stock is expected to be the older stock while supplies last but there's no choice between which foam you get.

[an_achronism]

I think you are asking if they can ship together if something is in stock at the time an order is going out.

I feel like it's clear what I'm asking and this is unnecessarily evasive

You keep saying you expect to be shipping keyboard orders over the course of the rest of this year. I've asked twice now whether you mean *all* keyboard orders or just the ones for those who placed orders very early or purchased a low serial number at additional cost, because at some point you have made reference to shipping orders for people who have been waiting "a long time" or something to that effect. Your last reply does not directly answer this but it implies an answer: it now sounds like you might be shooting for having all the keyboard orders shipped by year end, if at all possible, depending on how many QC issues you may have to deal with. Correct? Incorrect?

What I asked was based on the above clarification: you said you don't expect to ship the newer items until around year end and/or after keyboard orders have shipped. I was asking, since my keyboard order was placed relatively late/recently, should I realistically expect that my keyboard order will not ship until around year end or later anyway? In which case, presumably it makes no difference to timescales whether I add something to ship alongside it. Conversely, if you expect to ship the keyboard earlier, then adding something to same shipment will obviously delay receipt of the additional items (compared to shipping them separately) since they will not ship until the keyboard does.

So, to repeat/rephrase the question for the third time, will ordering these small additional items such as relegendable caps or XT foam, and requesting that they ship alongside my April 2021 keyboard order, actually make any significant difference to timescales? Or is the keyboard likely to ship around/after end of 2021 either way? (I'm asking because the shipping in my case is international so isn't cheap.)

I'm not implying that I want you to ship my order any quicker than anybody else, it's only right that those who have been waiting literally years for their keyboards get theirs before I get mine. I am just trying to set realistic expectations here so I understand how ordering other items with combined shipping might affect things, is all.

The extra foam stock is expected to be the older stock while supplies last but there's no choice between which foam you get.

Bit of a bummer but makes sense I guess.

-

If I seem a bit short, by the way, it's because I was and still am extremely unhappy with how you handled things when I was trying to place my order in the first place. I was communicating with you repeatedly over email for a few days to clarify some things and made it abundantly clear in those messages that money was tight, and the only reason I was frantically trying to secure an order was that your website heavily insinuated that you would no longer be accepting orders after April. A large part of the reason it took so many messages back and forth was that you were continuously evasive throughout: I made reference to the impending end of April deadline more than once in our correspondence and you pointedly avoided all questions around that issue, choosing to instead lean in even harder to the idea that it was critical that I order absolutely everything I could all at once rather than spreading things out so I could actually afford it like I was telling you I needed to do. At no point did you mention that...

1. I could order everything but split cost by doing a down payment (an option that I had seen mention of on the site, but all references to it were years old, so I had the impression this had been an early adopter thing that was no longer available)

or

2. This sense of urgency imbued by your website and your own responses was, frankly, horseshit, as I would later find out.

I placed an order "just in time" for a bunch of stuff I couldn't really afford at the time based on not wanting to miss the opportunity entirely. 24h later, your website updated saying to get orders in by the end of May, rather than April. I later learned that the site has been doing this every month for years now. Within the same 24h or so, I also saw you offering the down payment option to somebody else in this very thread, despite never having mentioned it to me at any point.

I bit my tongue, so rather than losing my temper, I just messaged you asking somewhat politely what the April deadline had been all about, but you just replied with some vague comment about how there was a rolling closing date for this "round". No apology, no justification, no explanation for why you'd manipulated me into placing an order and paying in full immediately when I had repeatedly made clear that I couldn't afford to do so at the time.

This false sense of urgency you are leveraging to mislead people into placing orders immediately is immoral. The fact that you took advantage of my "fear of missing out" at a time when I was very clearly telegraphing financial strain is even worse. You would likely have gotten my money either way, but if I'd known the down payment thing was an option then my finances would be in better shape right now than they are. As a result of how you conducted yourself, you got my money, but completely lost my respect.

[Bjerrk]

A large part of the reason it took so many messages back and forth was that you were continuously evasive throughout: I made reference to the impending end of April deadline more than once in our correspondence and you pointedly avoided all questions around that issue, choosing to instead lean in even harder to the idea that it was critical that I order absolutely everything I could all at once rather than spreading things out so I could actually afford it like I was telling you I needed to do.

[...]

I placed an order "just in time" for a bunch of stuff I couldn't really afford at the time based on not wanting to miss the opportunity entirely. 24h later, your website updated saying to get orders in by the end of May, rather than April. I later learned that the site has been doing this every month for years now.

[...]

No apology, no justification, no explanation for why you'd manipulated me into placing an order and paying in full immediately when I had repeatedly made clear that I couldn't afford to do so at the time.

This false sense of urgency you are leveraging to mislead people into placing orders immediately is immoral. The fact that you took advantage of my "fear of missing out" at a time when I was very clearly telegraphing financial strain is even worse. You would likely have gotten my money either way, but if I'd known the down payment thing was an option then my finances would be in better shape right now than they are. As a result of how you conducted yourself, you got my money, but completely lost my respect.

I do see where you're coming from.
I have immense respect for the work Ellipse has done in (re)creating the keyboards, but the constant evasion tactics are undignified. The use of false sense of urgency is undignified. It is clear that it works, though. I also hurried to order my keyboard before one of these deadlines, which was then promptly moved.
You could say that I am the fool, but in that case I am far from being the only one ...

[an_achronism]

I have immense respect for the work Ellipse has done in (re)creating the keyboards, but the constant evasion tactics are undignified. The use of false sense of urgency is undignified. It is clear that it works, though. I also hurried to order my keyboard before one of these deadlines, which was then promptly moved.
You could say that I am the fool, but in that case I am far from being the only one ...

This is fair. I should perhaps clarify that I do appreciate the enormity of the task and how incredible it is that it's even happening at all. Again, my issue is not one of impatience: I'd already seen things like LGR's video commenting on it having taken several years to have his order fulfilled so I wasn't expecting it within a week or something. My issue is with the dishonesty.

I have worked in pretty high pressure sales jobs for a significant portion of my life. My bullshit meter is extremely sensitive and my patience for "distasteful" conduct extremely low. Manipulation tactics like those on display here are exactly the kind of thing that perpetuate the idea that salespeople are pretty much always dishonest dickheads. I always put a probably unreasonable amount of effort into *not* being that kind of salesperson, which is significant more difficult and more stressful but not impossible. I'm just really disappointed by the constant refusal to meet a direct question with a direct answer, and obviously this whole "orders in by the end of the month!" for X years straight.

[OxC0FFEE]

As stated I got mine with the hhkb layout(split shift and backspace) + numpad and arrow keys.

It’s nice to see the exact configuration that I ordered “in the wild”, so to speak. This is further pegging my hype-meter. Enjoy your sweet board!

[nickg]

Oh you're gonna love it. honestly its what tlk boards shoulda been all along. Dont get me wrong embedding the numpad in the alpha block like ibm and unicomp do/did is good, but as little as I use the nav cluster(home page up etc) just having them share the numbers like the f77 set up does is really perfect. id love if it caught on for tkl boards

[Ellipse]

Firmware update:

As an update a few folks have volunteered to help pandrew add Model F officially to the main QMK project in recent weeks. Given the amount of work needed and the time limitations of everyone I am not sure how much time is needed to complete this but I'm hoping that it can be soon. This should make the firmware flashing a little easier.

Adding additional diagnostics to Via is still a good suggestion and a good way of getting Via to become the default firmware, but for now the focus is on getting official QMK support.


an_achronism I believe your question is about having to pay international shipping for the extra addons that you want to ship with your keyboard. Sorry if I was not clear but it is not necessary to pay if shipping with a keyboard, even for the relegendable caps, especially for the international folks. Just pick the free/other shipping option at checkout right before clicking Place Order. I did not mean to miss some of your questions but I spend many hours each week going through often more than hundreds of messages and need to be a little more careful spending too much time using my Model F instead of mailing out the Model F keyboards In general there is a small proportion of folks with whom I am spending hours reading and writing messages and it is more time than what I should be spending.

Given the uncertainties with how quickly I can mail out the keyboards (so many of them require repairs and additional QC which has slowed me down), I unfortunately cannot answer your question definitively regarding whether every keyboard ordered as of May 2021 or every keyboard in the future as well will be delivered by year end. To be safe I will assume that the goal is the former. I cannot commit to deadlines at the expense of reduced quality control.

I have addressed the issue on the changing timeline of the project several times before and we are still not in the final round, so even with a deadline there would be still some time to order keyboards and accessories afterwards.

[an_achronism]

I have addressed the issue on the changing timeline of the project several times before and we are still not in the final round, so even with a deadline there would be still some time to order keyboards and accessories afterwards.

My bullshit meter is extremely sensitive

This should not be on the front page. It's only there to imply that this is the order deadline, without explicitly stating it (so you can say you *technically* didn't lie, because it's a request, not a statement). The most charitable interpretation is that it's meaningless, in which case it should be removed. The most damning is that it's intentionally manipulative, in which case it should be removed. And you obviously put it there for a reason, seeing as it isn't some throwaway line that just got forgotten about: it has been updating every single month for several years. It's a really unpleasant sales tactic.

I never asked you to commit to a self-imposed deadline, by the way, I was just asking for clarification on what you'd stated previously with respect to the "end of 2021" estimate that you volunteered (because of some comments you'd made about focusing on shipping orders for those who had been "waiting a long time for their keyboards" or words to that effect). Thank you for finally clarifying that your intended meaning was somewhat more general.

[Sp33ls]

Firmware update:

As an update a few folks have volunteered to help pandrew add Model F officially to the main QMK project in recent weeks. Given the amount of work needed and the time limitations of everyone I am not sure how much time is needed to complete this but I'm hoping that it can be soon. This should make the firmware flashing a little easier.

Adding additional diagnostics to Via is still a good suggestion and a good way of getting Via to become the default firmware, but for now the focus is on getting official QMK support.

That is great to hear! I just re-flashed my VIA back to QMK and checked the signal level monitor -- all good.

I then flashed with "Via F77 - ANSI-ISO - PrintScr.hex", and still resulted in those two "blank" keys not being detected.

After re-flashing with the "Via F77 - ANSI-ISO - 0-9.hex", they now behave as expected.

So, my success rate when flashing:

0/2 Via PrintScr
1/1 Via 0-9

I'm not sure if there's just something corrupt with my setup, or if there's an issue with the "Via F77 - ANSI-ISO - PrintScr" hex file?

[troglotype]

Firmware update:

As an update a few folks have volunteered to help pandrew add Model F officially to the main QMK project in recent weeks. Given the amount of work needed and the time limitations of everyone I am not sure how much time is needed to complete this but I'm hoping that it can be soon. This should make the firmware flashing a little easier.

Adding additional diagnostics to Via is still a good suggestion and a good way of getting Via to become the default firmware, but for now the focus is on getting official QMK support.

That is great to hear! I just re-flashed my VIA back to QMK and checked the signal level monitor -- all good.

I then flashed with "Via F77 - ANSI-ISO - PrintScr.hex", and still resulted in those two "blank" keys not being detected.

After re-flashing with the "Via F77 - ANSI-ISO - 0-9.hex", they now behave as expected.

So, my success rate when flashing:

0/2 Via PrintScr
1/1 Via 0-9

I'm not sure if there's just something corrupt with my setup, or if there's an issue with the "Via F77 - ANSI-ISO - PrintScr" hex file?

Thank you very much for sharing your experience. Darkcruix is writing (with as much help from me as I can give) documentation to help non-technical users re-program Ellipses' keyboards. If you have some more details on what you did and what exactly failed, I'd be happy to receive them.

[Ellipse]

Sublimation update: The international sets and additional keys have been delayed. The expectation is that production on them finishes in July or August. For now the factory is focusing on the international sets. Zed and I have been going back and forth with the factory's key set photos to review the alignment. After that, all of the one-off keys will be sublimated. The key alignment has proven much more difficult for all of the international sets - especially with the multiple legend characters on each key. Alignment issues would be much more noticeable with these keys than they are with the US ANSI set which had fewer multi-character sets.

Sp33ls that is very interesting behavior of the firmware. Is it possible that the Erase EEPROM command was not done in the pandrew utility before flashing each firmware? The EEPROM part of the chip is not always erased it seems when new firmware is flashed to the controller.

Not to belabor the point, but in regards to the project delays and timeline, the main point I have made a few times before is that given all of the factory delays and my own delays in the QC process to get these keyboards out I am unable to keep the deadline unchanged, but I strongly believe that a deadline that is not firm is better than no deadline, which would give a wrong impression that the project is ongoing indefinitely, even after the orders have gone out and the final round is over. I don't want anyone intermittently following the project every few months to miss out on joining the project because it closed with little to no warning. Better to be cautious in my view, even overly so. I fully understand the other points that have been brought up by some of you, but removing the deadline or indicating in any other way that the project is ongoing indefinitely would not be the best option.

[Jan Pospisil]

Was the Czech cap set finalized in the end? There were some other people with input, but I'm not sure if it got done, or if we collectively couldn't decide.

[nickg]

Are the 1 to = keys with f1-f12 printed on the front of them any different from the 1 to = keys that come as part of the standard xt repro key cap set, besides having f1 to f12 printed on them? I'm eyeing the set on your website, but i dont want to lose any of the quality ive been spoiled by so far

[Ellipse]

Jan Pospisil I think Zed is still working on some of the international language sets including JIS and Czech so I'm not sure.

nickg you are correct: they are just different in that they are front printed. The original Model F 4704 keyboards had the front printing on these keys as well.

[darkcruix]

Firmware update:

As an update a few folks have volunteered to help pandrew add Model F officially to the main QMK project in recent weeks. Given the amount of work needed and the time limitations of everyone I am not sure how much time is needed to complete this but I'm hoping that it can be soon. This should make the firmware flashing a little easier.

Adding additional diagnostics to Via is still a good suggestion and a good way of getting Via to become the default firmware, but for now the focus is on getting official QMK support.

That is great to hear! I just re-flashed my VIA back to QMK and checked the signal level monitor -- all good.

I then flashed with "Via F77 - ANSI-ISO - PrintScr.hex", and still resulted in those two "blank" keys not being detected.

After re-flashing with the "Via F77 - ANSI-ISO - 0-9.hex", they now behave as expected.

So, my success rate when flashing:

0/2 Via PrintScr
1/1 Via 0-9

I'm not sure if there's just something corrupt with my setup, or if there's an issue with the "Via F77 - ANSI-ISO - PrintScr" hex file?

Thank you very much for sharing your experience. Darkcruix is writing (with as much help from me as I can give) documentation to help non-technical users re-program Ellipses' keyboards. If you have some more details on what you did and what exactly failed, I'd be happy to receive them.

Right - we are trying our best to get to a point where we can something out for the owners of F62 / F77 from Ellipse. The idea is that we cover only the QMK and VIA world at its current state and then adjust over time.
Please be aware, we are still exchanging ideas on how to best to approach it. A sneak peak of the current state is attached here (not ready for real world help, but gives an idea what we likely will end up with). The version here is only VIA and has errors in it - more to come ...

BrandNewModelF_VIA.pdf

(2.13 MiB) Downloaded 109 times

[an_achronism]

Not to belabor the point, but in regards to the project delays and timeline, the main point I have made a few times before is that given all of the factory delays and my own delays in the QC process to get these keyboards out I am unable to keep the deadline unchanged, but I strongly believe that a deadline that is not firm is better than no deadline, which would give a wrong impression that the project is ongoing indefinitely, even after the orders have gone out and the final round is over. I don't want anyone intermittently following the project every few months to miss out on joining the project because it closed with little to no warning. Better to be cautious in my view, even overly so. I fully understand the other points that have been brought up by some of you, but removing the deadline or indicating in any other way that the project is ongoing indefinitely would not be the best option.

Oh, silly me. So when the site very heavily implied that the order deadline was the end of April 2021, you really did intend to stop taking orders then, and you only didn't because of production delays? And when it said April 2020? And 2019? 2018? 2017?

Come on, man. This is ridiculous at face value but furthermore, I don't see how production delays affect the point at which you decide you've sold enough. The "deadline" is the point at which you stop taking orders, not the point at which production stops.

From a consumer standpoint, you currently giving the "wrong impression" that the project is just about to stop taking orders is knowingly dishonest and much worse than simply disclosing that the actual deadline is indeterminate but you will update when it is known. As it stands, you are simply manipulating people to buy immediately by leveraging a fabricated sense of urgency. It likely makes little to no difference to you whether you get my money immediately or in a month, or whether you get some now and some later, since you apparently still do the down payment and settle balance later option (which you didn't mention to me for some reason and every reference to it on the site was years old). I could have made a more informed purchasing decision had I been aware that the "deadline" was meaningless and had been sequentially changing every month for several years. As it stands, you got the full payment off me in one go and my circumstances abruptly changed very soon after, which made the large expenditure rather damaging.

[soyuz]

To be dead clear, falsely using limited offers (like "get your orders in by the end of the month" with the strong implication that the project will cease taking orders then when it absolutely won't) is false advertising, at least in the UK and EU.

The product is very nice, and I am not saying you're a scammer, but baiting people into buying with false urgency because they think they won't be able to anymore is deceptive and wrong. If you give a deadline it shouldn't be a moving goalpost that tricks people into parting with their money before they can really afford to, just don't provide a deadline at all if you can't be certain.

[an_achronism]

To be dead clear, falsely using limited offers (like "get your orders in by the end of the month" with the strong implication that the project will cease taking orders then when it absolutely won't) is false advertising, at least in the UK and EU.

Indeed.

Joe may not be located in Europe, but he sells to people here, whose expectations of consumer rights are aligned with local laws. For example: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/c ... dex_en.htm

[LuderChris]

For the love of God, could you all keep the very large text/screenshots to a minimum please. My phone does not like to format it properly anymore. Also, I am confused now as who's the bully and who's the bullied ... something that does NOT need clarification.

I am an EU and UK citizen and I have learned, that a sofa, rug or mattress sale is not to be taken too seriously in either of the 2 territories - legal or not. And sometimes you just buy a sofa from one of the Forever-Sale places because they are the ones who happen to have the right one at the right price ... in this case, thankfully no one is lecturing me afterwards on what everybody knows anyway ... please forgive me Mr Littlewood

Looking forward to the very same shouting match in about 10 forum pages to the right.

[ok_boomer]

For the love of God, could you all keep the very large text/screenshots to a minimum please. My phone does not like to format it properly anymore. Also, I am confused now as who's the bully and who's the bullied ... something that does NOT need clarification.

I am an EU and UK citizen and I have learned, that a sofa, rug or mattress sale is not to be taken too seriously in either of the 2 territories - legal or not. And sometimes you just buy a sofa from one of the Forever-Sale places because they are the ones who happen to have the right one at the right price ... in this case, thankfully no one is lecturing me afterwards on what everybody knows anyway ... please forgive me Mr Littlewood

Looking forward to the very same shouting match in about 10 forum pages to the right.

ok boomer

[an_achronism]

ok boomer

[Bjerrk]

Not to belabor the point, but in regards to the project delays and timeline, the main point I have made a few times before is that given all of the factory delays and my own delays in the QC process to get these keyboards out I am unable to keep the deadline unchanged, but I strongly believe that a deadline that is not firm is better than no deadline, which would give a wrong impression that the project is ongoing indefinitely, even after the orders have gone out and the final round is over. I don't want anyone intermittently following the project every few months to miss out on joining the project because it closed with little to no warning. Better to be cautious in my view, even overly so. I fully understand the other points that have been brought up by some of you, but removing the deadline or indicating in any other way that the project is ongoing indefinitely would not be the best option.

Have you considered going into politics?