F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[chayu]

Every crowdfunding initiative (group buy, Kickstarter, preorder, whatever flavour you want to call it) honestly will have unhappy participants when it comes to timelines and scheduling..... nothing new. They aren't wrong but being on the other side myself, sometimes there are things beyond your control causing delays and predictions you really can't anticipate. As far as I see it, Ellipse is responsive- which is a huge plus! And participants are very happy with the quality of they have received.

[an_achronism]

Every crowdfunding initiative (group buy, Kickstarter, preorder, whatever flavour you want to call it) honestly will have unhappy participants when it comes to timelines and scheduling..... nothing new. They aren't wrong but being on the other side myself, sometimes there are things beyond your control causing delays and predictions you really can't anticipate. As far as I see it, Ellipse is responsive- which is a huge plus! And participants are very happy with the quality of they have received.

Yeah I mean I agree but my issue is not and never was about "timelines and scheduling". Never was impatient about it arriving, knew it would take ages. It was a question of ethics. But I'm done, I dunno why somebody thought bringing it back up again after things had clearly moved on was productive in any way!

[Pete]

"Being a loud asshat" was literally the point

You succeeded. Are you proud about bringing so much negativity to the conversation? There are too many "loud asshats" on Internet forums these days and people are just sick of it.

[an_achronism]

You succeeded. Are you proud about bringing so much negativity to the conversation? There are too many "loud asshats" on Internet forums these days and people are just sick of it.

If so much as a single person realises because of that shitshow that the order "deadline" is a complete fabrication, then yeah, worth it. Seems like several people have attempted to call this out since the project began and it's been repeatedly swept under the carpet.

And frankly, I don't give a single fuck what you or any other naysayer thinks of me, I am fully confident in my assertion that this practice is wrong, and people should not be misled into parting with their money on false pretenses.

[jwegman]

...are you waiting for the slow claps to begin?

[pveentjer]

finally got around to taking a decent picture and reporting back. Been using the F77 as a daily driver and it has been an amazing keyboard to type on and noticeably better than the MX switches i’ve used previously.

Do you feel any scratchiness? One of my keyboards uses Cherry MX Blue switches and typing on it just makes me upset (hence I don't use the piece of junk). I just hate the scratchiness; like scratching your nails over a chalkboard.

[DeScruff]

Welp. Ive got some badish news. I think it was reported earlier about how the texture can wear off and leave the keyboard smooth?
Ive gotten to the next step sadly.

IMG_20210707_101909913.jpg (206.92 KiB) Viewed 6855 times

The actual paint is now wearing off...

[OxC0FFEE]

finally got around to taking a decent picture and reporting back.

Nice deskmat! Is that the one from Kono? What do you think of it? I have a similar one from Level One Techs, but sadly now they just seem to have a mousepad in stock.

[thefarside]

finally got around to taking a decent picture and reporting back.

Nice deskmat! Is that the one from Kono? What do you think of it? I have a similar one from Level One Techs, but sadly now they just seem to have a mousepad in stock.

That one looks very similar to mine which I purchased from Kono. I like mine although it came with a couple of small stains on it but they thankfully are shipping a replacement.

[chayu]

Welp. Ive got some badish news. I think it was reported earlier about how the texture can wear off and leave the keyboard smooth?
Ive gotten to the next step sadly.
IMG_20210707_101909913.jpg
The actual paint is now wearing off...

Pretty "oof". Is cerakote going to be more durable? As much as I like the vintage appeal, down the line, being able to refinish with a more durable surface would be nice.

[joshuaeckroth]

Hi Ellipse, I have a F77 keyboard with model M keys and I love it (I ordered separate shipping). You've mentioned keysets several times but I don't recall you mentioning the status of unprinted keys. Will people who ordered unprinted keys (gray & blue specifically) need to wait until all sublimation keysets are completed? Thanks!

[Ellipse]

Glad to see posts about shipping notifications and keyboards going out! Signs of progress are always good to see.

My productivity has definitely improved in recent days not dealing as much with time / energy vampires in general, both on and off the forums (not pointing out any one person specifically - just a general note). This article explains the concept perfectly, and it was both interesting and helpful to me: https://www.nbcnews.com/better/health/h ... ncna896251

Now to catch up:

Regarding the shipping notification emails, everyone receives one as soon as your order ships. You would receive one email per order that ships, so you may receive more than one email.

Everyone please make sure that the shipping address is correct! A few people have forgotten to check their email or switched emails without letting me know, missed the tracking number email, and their package was sent back to me - a big charge to ship the international orders again!

Sp33ls - thanks for sharing this photo! On a less related/unrelated note, some people have ordered additional blank 1U nub/locator keys as well, maybe for the keys between Ctrl and Alt or for other keys - I did not expect this starting out with the project.

infundibulum please send me a PM with your order number, but yes in general it's easy to change ANSI to ISO as you mentioned and I might be able to take care of this for you before the order ships.

mrprofessor, confirmed that you can get a USB-C controller as an extra add-on, though no one can pick which one is installed with the keyboard - the installed controllers are assorted. Feel free to take a look at the Model F USB-C (new) option here: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product ... ontroller/ You'd have to do the desoldering and soldering though for the controller. Alternatively you could get a micro USB to USB-C short/patch cable so you have an easily disconnectable USB-C connector on your keyboard without having to do all that work. The latter option is much better in my opinion, especially if you like to rotate between different keyboards or travel with the keyboard (be careful not to break your back carrying around the zinc case keyboards as they are really heavy!).

Nice photo darkcruix! Those original IBM relegendable caps look really clean. I guess they were kept away from light so they did not yellow after so many decades!

Great chayu; glad you are planning on (or already?) joining the project!

qowieuryt thanks for the photo and update! Where'd you get that cool custom mat in the background of the photo? And what was the one tip on Via you received, if I may ask? Did you have a chance to review my step by step firmware video for QMK and Via, located in the manual on the project web site?

chayu yes you can definitely strip and repaint or repowdercoat the classic style zinc case keyboards, or even spray a clear coat on top if you so choose, though in my opinion it's better to show the wear over the years and maybe repaint it only a long time from now. Metal can definitely be stripped and repainted as the cases are made of high end Zinc (Zamak 3 alloy), higher quality and a bit more dense a material than the pot metal that IBM used. A few years back I stripped and spray painted an old 1940s illuminated wall clock, teaching myself spray painting in the process (the learning curve was not too bad). https://www.reddit.com/r/BuyItForLife/c ... all_clock/

joshuaeckroth everyone is currently waiting as part of the separate shipping option, outside of some of the early bird tooling supporters and single digit serials who also opted for separate shipping and received their key sets soon after I received the first batch back in late February and early March. As noted in recent months, the focus is on mailing out as much as I can of the "all in stock" keyboards and orders from those who have been patiently waiting and preferred everything to ship at once. In a couple months from now, once I've gotten out a bunch of these orders, I expect to mail out all of the separate shipping items. Printed, nonprinted, and other items are not in separate queues - I expect the queue will be approximately by order date where possible, with the "all in stock" stuff going out as the priority and no option available at the moment for "split split" shipping, as we wait for the factory to wrap up the remaining sublimation of international sets and customized individual keys and other small sets.

[consensual-penis]

to someone that has one, is the ultra compact f62 case angled or is it flat?

[qowieuryt]

finally got around to taking a decent picture and reporting back.

Nice deskmat! Is that the one from Kono? What do you think of it? I have a similar one from Level One Techs, but sadly now they just seem to have a mousepad in stock.

yes. it’s the one from Kono. I’m not big into desk mats, so i don’t have much to compare.


Ellipse,
the tip for via was to select ATmega32u2 instead of ATmega32u4. It was earlier in the year before the youtube video was available but i’ll have to look at it when i help my brother set up his f77.

the deskmat is from kono and seemed to be a perfect fit for capacitive buckling springs.

https://kono.store/products/patent-print-deskmats

[joshuaeckroth]

Thanks for the info Ellipse. It's good to see specifics about the nonprinted keys, and I agree with how you've prioritized the orders.

[OxC0FFEE]

Regarding the shipping notification emails, everyone receives one as soon as your order ships. You would receive one email per order that ships, so you may receive more than one email.

What is the email address the shipping notifications come from, so I can make a filter to set high importance and make sure it’s whitelisted and never ends up in junk?

[russypt]

Time really flies. I've been using my F62 Compact and F77 Classic for over a year now. Both working great, particularly the F77 which serves as a daily driver for development. The coating is still holding up great on the F77, I may Cerakote it later if it starts to get iffy.

Side note, if you click on an avatar or name, then click 'add foe' and confirm, their posts will be hidden from display. Nothing personal, I'm just here for technical info and updates.

[clickclack]

to someone that has one, is the ultra compact f62 case angled or is it flat?

The keyboard mechanism is tilted forward slighty but the top and bottom of the case are parallel to each other. There's no angling feet by default but I'm using an "ESC flip" keyboard stand to tilt mine.

[Wazrach]

Regarding the shipping notification emails, everyone receives one as soon as your order ships. You would receive one email per order that ships, so you may receive more than one email.

What is the email address the shipping notifications come from, so I can make a filter to set high importance and make sure it’s whitelisted and never ends up in junk?

info@modelfkeyboards.com. If you placed multiple orders, you'll get emails for each order. I got 6 email notifications and knew exactly what it was.

[Xovaan]

Just arrived! Gotta say, even after five years it was totally worth the wait

Here's a comparison I did between my five-year daily driver, a silenced Realforce Topre 55g, and the F77 Compact

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jrt8-P-AbV0

By the way, the finish turned out amazing! I'm particularly proud because I had a partial help in developing it (also, if you hate the compact finish, you can blame me as well haha)

All keys worked and registered right out of the box. Couldn't be happier!

[Gurbsordidity]

Glad to hear Ellipse is now ignoring the "energy vampires" . Any enterprise serving the general public gets plenty of them, and ignoring them actually improves the product by keeping the focus on important things like product development, operations, and support.

I read the warranties and terms of service I agree to, and none of BNMFK's guarantees a specific closing date, only that one will eventually arrive, which belies claims of false advertising. If I were Ellipse I might have reacted by changing the notice a little, to something like, "Due to popular demand, the order closing date has been extended to date x", and then just update x every month or so. That wording resolves the specific complaints I've seen here and yet could still be rolled month to month arbitrarily far into the future.

No one should take criticisms like the one I just saw about "shameless greed" too seriously. In that case, Ellipse set a high asking price on the open market for an item in his personal collection—an act no reasonable person thinks is immoral for a luxury good, and the person screaming shameless greed (over and over and over and over) is indeed a reasonable person. Since the user's real motive is not to decry greed, we have to guess.

My best guess is it's retribution for the time Ellipse shipped them a keyboard internationally and they demanded reimbursement of import duties after the fact, which Ellipse refused.¹ And so began their campaign to embarrass Ellipse, the goal being to pressure Ellipse into reimbursing their import taxes, the result being a cavalcade of shitposts here. I suspect that because the user coveted the $4000 keyboard, they decided to restart their campaign by making an issue of it: I am being a nuisance because remember that one time you refused to pay my import costs?

¹ Import taxes are the responsibility of the importer, not the exporter.

The world is a vampire.
— William Shakespeare

[troglotype]

Here's a comparison I did between my five-year daily driver, a silenced Realforce Topre 55g, and the F77 Compact

Silenced Topre is a great companion to capacitive buckling springs if you need to spend time in video conferences...

[Pete]

…they demanded reimbursement of the import duties, and Ellipse refused.¹.[/size]

I missed that. What country was it sent to?

I’m in Australia and have paid extra to send keyboard orders as seperate shipments to keep the total (including postage) under $1k AUD to avoid the hassle and risk of the shipment being stopped and having to pay 10% GST and possibly other admin charge that apply to packages coming into the country with a total value of $1,000 or more. And you have to be a bit consertive too because of fluctuating exchange rates.

[Gurbsordidity]

…they demanded reimbursement of the import duties, and Ellipse refused.¹.[/size]

I missed that. What country was it sent to?

I’m in Australia and have paid extra to send keyboard orders as seperate shipments to keep the total (including postage) under $1k AUD to avoid the hassle and risk of the shipment being stopped and having to pay 10% GST and possibly other admin charge that apply to packages coming into the country with a total value of $1,000 or more. And you have to be a bit consertive too because of fluctuating exchange rates.

Interesting. International shipping is becoming an increasingly common source of income for small and medium businesses. Judging from your account, it can get pretty complicated relative to the expected returns.

Pretty sure the destination was the UK, but I'd have to dredge up those old posts to say for sure.

[Gurbsordidity]

Just arrived! Gotta say, even after five years it was totally worth the wait

Here's a comparison I did between my five-year daily driver, a silenced Realforce Topre 55g, and the F77 Compact

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jrt8-P-AbV0

By the way, the finish turned out amazing! I'm particularly proud because I had a partial help in developing it (also, if you hate the compact finish, you can blame me as well haha)

All keys worked and registered right out of the box. Couldn't be happier!

Sorry, Xovaan! I threw chum in the water immediately after you submitted a quality post. Awesome short comparison. The cacophony of the Model F is over-the-top comedy after the quiet Topre....

[Pete]

International shipping is becoming an increasingly common source of income for small and medium businesses. Judging from your account, it can get pretty complicated relative to the expected returns.

It is getting complex, but for smaller businesses the onus would be on the buyer to cover all import taxes and duties. Everyone in Aus is familiar with the limits but it doesn’t mean we’re happy about it

But then there is another level of complexity…

For Australia, larger overseas businesses that make significant revenue above a set threshold from sales sent here are required to be familiar with Goods & Services Taxation regulation and collect tax from the buyer on all sales no matter how small (except on certain exempt items specified in the legislation), including shipping and insurance costs that are considered to form part of the price of the delivered goods, and then remit the tax to the Australian Taxation Office. I assume those businesses are big enough to afford experts in international taxation law. I also suspect some businesses (in a country I won’t name) may be collecting 10% tax from buyers at point of sale then keeping it.

Which means…. I can only order one keyboard and some spares and extra keys in one consignment if I want to ensure hassle-free delivery. You may get away with higher value deliveries but there’s always added risk involved in that case.

[PancakeMSTR]

You succeeded. Are you proud about bringing so much negativity to the conversation? There are too many "loud asshats" on Internet forums these days and people are just sick of it.

If so much as a single person realises because of that shitshow that the order "deadline" is a complete fabrication, then yeah, worth it. Seems like several people have attempted to call this out since the project began and it's been repeatedly swept under the carpet.

And frankly, I don't give a single fuck what you or any other naysayer thinks of me, I am fully confident in my assertion that this practice is wrong, and people should not be misled into parting with their money on false pretenses.

Bruh I bitched about the fabricated order deadline years ago in like 2018, no one cared then, don't expect them to have wised up by now. Dunno why the community stands for it tho, guess they just prefer being balls deep in ellipse.

Anyway, while I'm glad to have received my F77 (after four years of waiting), I can definitely admit that I never actually expected to.

[Go-Kart]

Just arrived! Gotta say, even after five years it was totally worth the wait

Here's a comparison I did between my five-year daily driver, a silenced Realforce Topre 55g, and the F77 Compact

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jrt8-P-AbV0

By the way, the finish turned out amazing! I'm particularly proud because I had a partial help in developing it (also, if you hate the compact finish, you can blame me as well haha)

All keys worked and registered right out of the box. Couldn't be happier!

This is excellent.

[mrprofessor]

…they demanded reimbursement of the import duties, and Ellipse refused.¹.[/size]

I missed that. What country was it sent to?

I’m in Australia and have paid extra to send keyboard orders as seperate shipments to keep the total (including postage) under $1k AUD to avoid the hassle and risk of the shipment being stopped and having to pay 10% GST and possibly other admin charge that apply to packages coming into the country with a total value of $1,000 or more. And you have to be a bit consertive too because of fluctuating exchange rates.

That's cute. Since I live in India I have to pay (42 to 77)% as customs duty. No matter what's the price of the item.

Worst thing is they include the shipping costs while calculating the price.

The keyboards comes under computing accessories, I heard in many cases they're charging 77%.

[Pete]

I have to pay (42 to 77)% as customs duty. No matter what's the price of the item.

That is big