Bjerrk wrote: 14 Jul 2021, 09:33
Chyros wrote: 14 Jul 2021, 09:28
you're all discussing hydrocarbons, but they are not the same, just like methane and graphite are not the same.
Well, perhaps not
just like that, given that one doesn't even contain hydrogen
Well it does, just at the edges :p . Methane and graphite are basically max-H versus min-H carbon. But formally the formula for graphite is just C, that's true.
NeK wrote: 14 Jul 2021, 10:32
Chyros wrote: 14 Jul 2021, 09:28
Excellent work on finding out the definitive lubricants they used!
For my part: hey man thanks, it's good hearing it from you
However, I have NOT tried any with wax in them. Wax also seems like a much more logical possibility given the texture of the lubricant found in old Alps switches; it doesn't look at all like a silicone or lithium grease to me. I may have to try to dissolve some wax in LPE and seeing if I can coat some Alps sliders with it. Bit of a hack job, but better than nothing, I guess.
So, you are saying that the "paraffin based mineral oil" that Threebond states, is actually a specific hydrocarbon "type"? That is wax-like?
I am not sure (I don't have the knowledge) but you are probably right, because when I got a little crazy and tried out some plain candle wax (check it out, it's some posts back), it did turn out to have a very similar feeling like the OG lube.
The official stated ingredients for the OG are these:
Main ingredients:
- Paraffin based mineral oil
- Lithium soap
- Petroleum solvents
Now, if I am not mistaken, this means that the lube was a Lithium lube (thickener) with Paraffin based mineral oil (which we talk about). I have no idea what the petroleum solvents mean. Never heard of that before in a lube, maybe it is a translation issue? And they really meant something different, like "extra additives", as many lubes have (e.g., extreme pressure additives like PTFE or solid lubricants etc).
So, it definitely is not a Silicon(e) (thickener), but why do you think it is not a Lithium grease also? That confused me a bit to be honest, because Lithium Soap is listed as an ingredient and AFAIK pretty much there is no other use for Lithium Soap except as thickener for greases.
Anyway, to summarize, we should try to look for a lube that has Paraffin based mineral oil as base oil, right? And that high refined mineral oil or PAOs are not necessarily the same as Paraffin oil. Correct?
I'm glad that someone with a great knowledge about chems finally is here! Let's crack this mofo!
Well someone mentioned that they had wax in them, but looking at the ingredients list, I can't actually see that, no. Wax is definitely not the same as mineral oil, and I can't see anything in the ingredients list that's similar to candle wax. Paraffin is an extremely broad term; virtually useless to determine what it actually is, unfortunately. For all intents and purposes, you can equate "paraffin" to "hydrocarbon", mostly. So a "paraffin oil" is just a hydrocarbon-based oil (as opposed to silicone oil, or ethereal compounds, etc.)
The petroleum solvents are just there to make it thinner and easier to apply, I'm guessing. If it's something like LPE, it'll evaporate very quickly after application. A genuine solvent won't stay on the parts for long; that's what oils and greases are for (those two are notably different, by the way).
Lithium soap is a thickener for oils, generally to make greases. It's often used in high-vacuum applications; we use it in the lab as well, as it happens. Generally, lithium grease is notably yellow-brown. It's very sticky and viscous. I tried some neat Li grease on Alps switches and found it not-great; the switches feel like they're glued (which makes sense).
The first formulation, based on "polyoxyalkylene ether", is likely based on liquid-range PEG, or at the least something very similar. It's basically a polymer, but short-length enough that it's still in the liquid phase, rather than a solid. This looks like a pretty simple formulation; no wonder they still sell it.
The second and third formulation are oils thickened with lithium soap. The second one is a grease, whereas the third one remains a liquid; this makes sense considering the third one contains a solvent. The nature of the oils is different; the second one is ethereal, whereas the third one is a paraffin (in a paraffin solvent). I'm guessing the antioxidant in the second one is just a stabiliser for the polyether. Note that the amount of lithium soap isn't specified, and it might only be a little bit.
I think a major detail will be to know how it was applied. This may be able to tell us more about which lubricant it was. Because Alps lube is always found as a thin, very even layer distributed all over, but not on the inside (as far as I can see) I always assumed it was sprayed on. Something like a grease would not be sprayable (at least, not neat). Something in a solvent however seems much more logical. The solvent would make the grease sprayable, and then evaporate, leaving a thin layer of grease. It could've been a liquid, but liquids are much more liable to retaining dirt and dust, I think.
