Alps Lubricant FOUND!

[Jezzuz]

Yea the boiling for cleaning the switches has been tested by quite a few people and has always turned out fine, but I recommend the rub method for none skcc switches or if you just wanna try out the wax anyway as it is more effective on tactile and clicky switches

[NeK]

I also had this concern in the beginning but after some research, I found that that paraffin wax is not naturally made and does not have the same corrosive effects as other natural waxes like bees wax, olive oil and coconut oil, and it is a commonly used lubricant in many applications especially on bike chains. it also outperformed every lubricant in almost every way on all the other applications. I think I have heard people say that the OG alps lube was paraffin-based as well and some other lubes that have worked well in the past on alps. but I am absolutely no chemist so I could totally be wrong.

We know exactly what the OG lube had, because we now have the official specs. The OG (TB2581P) is a spray Lithium Soap thickened grease that contains a Paraffin Oil as base oil. "Paraffin Oil" is not Paraffin Wax despite having the same name. Chyros has analyzed this in detail some posts back in this thread. The lithium soap thickener is in very common usage almost everywhere for many decades now, and is very good for adhering to plastics and staying there, while being plastic safe.
The Paraffin Oil is most likely a highly refined mineral oil or a completely synthetic oil (people categorize them to be in the same group) consisting of Hydrocarbons molecules of a particularly high number of carbon atoms (i.e. long chained) and probably branched in some specific way. These characteristics provide the desirable properties to the oil i.e. the wax-like feeling and the slight dampening effect, which gives a high quality feeling to the switch. But also, as they are refined/synthetic, they contain no other molecules that are harmful to plastics, to our health or in some way undesirable. In other words, they are highly specialized.

Whereas, Paraffin Wax, in one hand contains hydrocarbons of various carbon number atoms (20 to 40 according to wikipedia), but on the other it doesn't contain branched ones and it is not highly refined to have specific hydrocarbons. It is not considered to be neither high quality for our specific use nor highly specialized for having specific types of hydrocarbons that give the desired properties.

So, this is why I decided not to actually use it despite that when several months ago (sometime before May) I tried the candle wax by rubbing the stem on it (exactly as you did yourself now), I found it it to be pretty good (although much mushy and heavy), which I particularly noted and mentioned in DT and this thread about how surprisingly good it was. I had serious reservations about it for the above reasons, and I rejected it.
I am glad that I did, because I would have stopped my research right there and I wouldn't continue on to finally finding the official OG specs.

However, if it turns out that it works so fine, then it surely will be great as well as pretty ironic.

[NeK]

Ok so I just boiled and boiled-wax 4 blue stems and upoer housings (didn't wax the housing ofcourse). I am waiting for them to dry and to try them.

However, as I don't have a stove, I used a tea kettle heater and I poured the boiled water in a glass with the parts. So I didn't exactly use them in continuous boiling water. I'll let you know how they turn out.

[soyuz]

Ok so I just boiled and boiled-wax 4 blue stems and upoer housings (didn't wax the housing ofcourse). I am waiting for them to dry and to try them.

However, as I don't have a stove, I used a tea kettle heater and I poured the boiled water in a glass with the parts. So I didn't exactly use them in continuous boiling water. I'll let you know how they turn out.

Doing it that way is less good than a stove but still cleans fairly well.

[CallmeJohn]

Just tried to wax mod a model m key stem cause why not and it works really well, it removes all the binding from off-centre key presses and increases the smoothness a bit. I didn't try to boil to clean the stem first which would probably help the smoothness but I'll try that now.

[Wazrach]

Just tried to wax mod a model m key stem cause why not and it works really well, it removes all the binding from off-centre key presses and increases the smoothness a bit. I didn't try to boil to clean the stem first which would probably help the smoothness but I'll try that now.

No way? I HAVE to try that on the F122 I'm refurbing right now.

[NeK]

Doing it that way is less good than a stove but still cleans fairly well.

Indeed they got pretty clean, allright. But sadly the waxing didn't came out that great. It did got applied but not as good as I expected. The end result is not that great. It does make a positive difference but it still has some static friction.
I believe that either the candle wax isn't good or the heaterboiling isn't that effective. I got to the store and bought a fresh new parrifin wax candle, which actually has that name printed on it, so I am going to try that next and see how it fares.

[zrrion]

As for why boiling works, I suspect it has to do with the rough surface of the plastic being a good surface for the formation of bubbles, and these bubbles do a good job at getting the part clean in the same way that an ultrasonic cleaner causes small bubbles to form that contribute to a cleaning action.

I'm not a boiling water scientist, but boiling in something like a glass or pyrex container that has a smooth interior surface would mean that bubbles are only able to form on the switch parts and nowhere else which might do a better job at getting the parts clean? If anyone tries this do be careful to not superheat the water. Since there's no place for bubble formation the water may not boil and thus could reach temperatures past boiling temperature without any visual indication of the temperature. Anything introduced at such temperatures, or even just bumping the vessel, could cause it to suddenly start boiling with more intensity that you might suspect whichis a significant danger if any of that very hot water gets on you. It is also possible to get the water hot enough to damage switches this way so do be very careful.

Unless the water is being heated in something with temperature control it is probably best to heat the switches up in the water until it begins to boil and then reduce the heat.

[NeK]

As for why boiling works, I suspect it has to do with the rough surface of the plastic being a good surface for the formation of bubbles, and these bubbles do a good job at getting the part clean in the same way that an ultrasonic cleaner causes small bubbles to form that contribute to a cleaning action.

Hot water is known to be a very effective cleaning method for all kinds of dirty things, e.g., kitchenware, clothes, cars etc. All of them rely heavily on the use of water and especially how hot it is. Heat makes dirt to dissolve and come off easier. The higher the heat, the easier and thorough the cleaning. A 100c boiling water can practically clean almost anything and without using any detergent.
The reason is because the heat transfers to the dirt, and it makes it to soften and to get loose from the surface/thing that was stuck on.

The bubbling of boiling also helps to make the cleaning even more effective, as it creates pressure points and stirrs the water and the soft and loose dirt causing it to move and dissolve in the water.

However, a hot water of 90+ degrees is more than enough to clean sufficiently well. Using even higher temperatures is mostly done for sterilization, which is an overkill for our use case.

[inozenz]

imagine putting boiling water into an ultrasonic cleaner, to make it even more effective?

[JP!]

What about boiling + sonic clean + polish + apply wax lubricant? I want to try the hot melt wax that I use for my bicycle chains on a very nasty Northgate Omnikey that I thought was beyond saving without getting replacement switches for the entire board.

[inozenz]

What about boiling + sonic clean + polish + apply wax lubricant? I want to try the hot melt wax that I use for my bicycle chains on a very nasty Northgate Omnikey that I thought was beyond saving without getting replacement switches for the entire board.

i think there is no limit, we cant overkill alps switches xD

[hellothere]

What about boiling + sonic clean + polish + apply wax lubricant? I want to try the hot melt wax that I use for my bicycle chains on a very nasty Northgate Omnikey that I thought was beyond saving without getting replacement switches for the entire board.

I tend to stay away from this thread, but I did want to mention that JP! is on the same track I've been on, but I've been doing things a bit different. I've used Finish Line Ceramic Wax Chain Lube. It works extremely well on white Alps and other sliders that are "slick," like white (it's super excellent on white), salmon/pink, yellow, and cream damped. It doesn't work as well on the non-slick sliders, like blues, greens, or oranges. You don't even really need to put it on the sliders, just in the tracks in the upper housing. Just clean the sliders and upper housings, blow the dust out of the lower housing, apply lube and wait 24 hours for it to dry.

It's also $12 US for a very large bottle.

I'll preface this next comment by saying that I haven't read all the posts in this thread. With that being said, the lube I mention above is probably nowhere near the lube that Alps originally used. I think what it does is fill in the scratches in the top housing and/or sliders to make the switches feel much better. Again, much better, NOT like when they first left the factory. I also don't know if it's "as good as" or even "better than" the factory lube.

I accept no responsibility for anyone damaging switches by trying what I mention above.

[inozenz]

It's also $12 US for a very large bottle.

its even cheaper in germany, will test it out, the way you mentioned

[Jan Pospisil]

imagine putting boiling water into an ultrasonic cleaner, to make it even more effective?

Some cleaners include heaters, right? I wonder if they go up to a boil though.

[hellothere]

imagine putting boiling water into an ultrasonic cleaner, to make it even more effective?

Some cleaners include heaters, right? I wonder if they go up to a boil though.

Mine does have a heater and it heats tap water to about 45 C if you do one "load" at the max timer rate of 8min.

[thousandperfume]

The attempts I made on some loose switches I have positively affect smoothness, but it can also bind more if too much wax is applied. Comparing wax boiling to using Finish Line dry lubricant, the wax absolutely destroys the dry lube; it even binds less, which I found quite funny. Applying the thinnest layer of film is probably the best option for wax. I found that adding 3203 wet lube to the top housings negated the binding issues a lot less if that helps anyone, just putting it out there.

And as Nek pointed out, it's probably still less specialized than the OG lube. That said, I hadn't tried pine alps which had OG lube still on them, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

[thechemtrailkid]

I have an ADB with oranges in so-so condition so the wax method is pretty appealing to me. It seems that the stems can take the heat no problem but is there much data on treatment for the upper housings? You would obviously want to remove any dirt and it seems like waxing them would be beneficial was well.

What sort of time periods have you guys used for the cleaning stage? I'm guessing that you would only need to briefly dip them in waxy boiling water to get the lubricant applied.

[Jezzuz]

when I use the boil method I boil the stems and upper housings for about 10-20 minutes. Then I pour the boiling water into a bowl and then add about 0.5 to 1 gram of wax for every 100 sliders. Then add the sliders and stir for a couple of minutes and then let them air dry. But for orange alps I would use the rub method after boiling anyway or just rub some of the wax off the side that contacts the tactile leaf as it can cause upstroke click if there is too much

[soyuz]

I have an ADB with oranges in so-so condition so the wax method is pretty appealing to me. It seems that the stems can take the heat no problem but is there much data on treatment for the upper housings? You would obviously want to remove any dirt and it seems like waxing them would be beneficial was well.

What sort of time periods have you guys used for the cleaning stage? I'm guessing that you would only need to briefly dip them in waxy boiling water to get the lubricant applied.

I wouldn't wax the housings solely because those do actually come into contact with the switchplate.

[thechemtrailkid]

Cool, thank you very much for your info guys. So boiling the housings is fine but there's concern about the wax interfering with the switch plates?

I will give this a shot next week. I might mess around with the application of the wax on the slider. I was thinking that melting some and brushing it on could be a nice way of doing it.

[NeK]

After trying with a kettle heater, I didn't get the desired results I expected, so I decided to give in and I got a small gas camping stove.

Now here are my first findings (and not final yet), which are interesting. I boiled and waxboiled 3-4 blue switches but they, sadly, didn't have a sufficient good result. there was definitely an improvement in the smoothness, reduction of harshness and friction and in stick-slip. but not anywhere near the NOS level.

I guessed that the candle wax MAY be the fault here. So I tried another candle wax, by using the rubbing technique as I was bored to reboil them. It also had the same sad result.

I thought of the possibility that the candles I used were not good, as I was not sure if they were really Paraffin Wax. So, I went out and bought another candle wax, a tealight type, which had in the sticker written "Paraffin Wax", so I was now certain that I had bought the real thing.

But, to my surprise it was by far the worst wax of all and it actually resulted in worsening the friction, the stick-slip and the binding. I examined it and I saw that it was very different from the other candles in the way that it was almost melted at room temperature. Whereas the other candles where very solid instead. Here is a video that demonstrates what I mean.

Now the good news. I got a bit frustrated about this, because I remember when I first tried the wax some months ago it was pretty good! How come now all 3 different candles that I used where bad?
And then I remembered that I used a tealight of a light green color., instead of the white ones. So I tried once more (the 4th candle) by boiling and wax oiling with that particular candle wax and... finally the results were very good! no binding, no stick-slip and much smoother.

It definitely comes close to a NOS switch in every way. It really does. I am impressed!

Now, having said that, I must point out that despite being the simplest and quickest way to actually restore to a sufficient level the switches, that requires no skill and no special tools at all, there are some issues with it.

1) It comes close to a NOS 10/10 condition, but it doesn't actually reach it. There is definitely a big difference with the NOS in terms of how smooth in everyway the NOS is. What is different is that the restored switches still have some slight harshness as they slide, and depending on the particular switch and how much abrasion it has, it has more or less pronounced harshness. If had to rate them I would rate them as 8/10. Using the following rating system: if 10 is the perfect NOS, then 9 would be a perceivably slightly degraded from that perfection and 8 would be an even more abraded switch that has a definite pronounced harshness. It seems that's the upper limit an abraded switch can get at using only cleaning and a good wax/lube.

2) The second thing that I think could be an issue in the medium to long term, is that the wax seems to not be very adhesive and it may scrap off with a bit of use. please note that I haven't experienced this actually happening. I base my worry on the fact that at the first presses of the switch, right after they waxboiled, visible parts of wax are getting scrapped off. So I leave this for consideration in later time after some actual use and verify how long lasting it is.

3) And third, is the candle wax chaos. Do be careful, there seem to be lots of kinds of Paraffin Wax candles, that either not that good, or even making the switches worse as in my case with the blatantly ironic "Paraffin Wax" candle. I think, this makes the situation a bit complicated and it is therefore important to find the right Paraffin Wax candle and a reliable way of buying it. I guess, that we should not recommend to people to just and get any candle to use, as they are certainly not all the same.

[Polecat]

So...have you tried Johnson's Paste Wax yet? It contains paraffin, caranuba, and a couple other ingredients that *should* be safe for plastics. I half-jokingly suggested it some time back, when I used it on the repainted case of my KB-101A. The forty year old tin I found in my garage was still usable, while a couple tins of car wax I had put away at the same time had long since dried up. And it has that same orange-brown color the original Alps lube supposedly had. Naturally I disclaim any responsibility for the results of using this stuff, and I won't take credit if it does happen to work as my original suggestion was not nearly serious enough, and based on absolutely nothing.

[mode1ace]

I’d agree that wax gets you to 9/10 not 10/10. Just thats good enough for me. I want a method to get back to 9/10 that I can repeat every few years.

[soyuz]

Some USB microscope pics.

These SKCM Cream were in fairly okay condition to start with, which was one of the things that interested me. Some observations:

- Of these, the one that felt best was the one that had only been boiled. I think if a switch isn't in garbage condition, it's worth doing boil only first and seeing what your results are like before moving on to waxboil.

- Interestingly, it looks like just boiling might also reflow the factory lubricant? You can see in the two additional pics that the strange streaking is gone, but the slider still shimmers under the light.

- Just boiling in wax is a clearly terribad idea. It looks awfully dirty, worse than untouched.

I'm getting a proper stand for this microscope soon so I'll be able to faff with the focal length and use the full 1000x magnification hopefully. I also need to locate my tronched SKCL green so I can get proper images of truly bad switches.

[thousandperfume]

Some USB microscope pics.
- Just boiling in wax is a clearly terribad idea. It looks awfully dirty, worse than untouched.

Would you say the bubbles are an essential part of the process then? I've had decent results boiling with wax then applying wet lube to the top housings, with no boiling w/ bubbles. With a thin enough layer that doesn't have bumps of wax on the rubbing plastics, it should work pretty well on sliders that were in decent condition.

[NeK]

remember to always wipe the side of the stem that the click leaf is in contact. it should not have any wax, it must be squickly clean., or else the horrible upstroke click will happen.

[NeK]

Some USB microscope pics.

For how long did you boil them? they don't seem to get cleaned thoroughly, maybe you should let them boil for longer?

[soyuz]

Some USB microscope pics.

For how long did you boil them? they don't seem to get cleaned thoroughly, maybe you should let them boil for longer?

can't really remember, i basically left them in the pan while i was faffing around with the microscope in the other room. wasn't keeping an eye on it

[Jezzuz]

i usually boil the stems and top housings for about 10- 20 minutes