Don't you feel like DT is dying?

[headphone_jack]

Deskthority is small enough that we could be stuck on a home server somewhere and be kept up indefinitely. Hell, that's the way it was for years if I understand things correctly. If Heaven's Gate can keep their website up from beyond the grave, so can we.

[Muirium]

Alternatively, maybe we are all resolutely fscked.

File Not Found — with the shift to online apps, educators report students are increasingly confused by the idea of a local filesystem with nested files and folders

[davkol]

educators report students are increasingly confused by the idea of a local filesystem with nested files and folders

Well, it's not like the world has ever been easily mapped onto a tree structure. Semantic-desktop ontology is an endless rabbit hole, though.

[webwit]

Hell, that's the way it was for years if I understand things correctly.

[Weezer]

I despise Discord and Reddit. I will remain here even if I am the only one doing projects.
I am Gen Z, but I prefer using decentralized forms and websites rather than sell my soul to a mega-corporation.
It really baffles me about how many times Discord has been exposed for doing nasty stuff, and people keep on using it. Very cult-like and shows a disturbing future for my generation.
I will also post videos about my keyboards on video sharing sites and hopefully rope some more people in to coming to Deskthority.

Not to mention that it's super glitchy and trashy to use for anything other than immediate IM

[Weezer]

Wikipedia's frequent fund raisers are just the start of it. Aren't they mostly funded by institutional cash from Google and the like, for use in search? I don't see us ever being so mainstream.

Deskthority could become mainstream by broadening its scope beyond just keyboards

[Hak Foo]

One of the better "single purpose forums" I've seen is AudioKarma. It survives, I believe, in large part on its back stock of content-- threads that get necromanced every 5 years when someone digs a JVC JR-S300 out of the attic and needs to find out how to repair it. You can't really gimmick up that sort of search relevancy.

Deskthority is poised to build up that sort of content base.

[Findecanor]

I'd say that Deskthority already does have that kind of content.

[Muirium]

That’s nice. And it pays for the server costs how, precisely?

Remember how DT was run from user donations for all its years? Something tells me the day the new management try asking for some, they’ll need some antiseptic for the plate once it’s gone round…

[Lalaland124]

Maybe it's time for the "If you can't beet em, join them" mentality and the creation of an official deskthority TikTok account

[Muirium]

Honest question: how is TikTok different from Vine? You know, besides one coming years earlier and dying a few years ago too; when it was killed by its corporate overlords…

[Lalaland124]

Honest question: how is TikTok different from Vine? You know, besides one coming years earlier and dying a few years ago too; when it was killed by its corporate overlords…

Honestly, I guess the main difference is that there is much more shallow content on TikTok that speaks to a slightly different audience than Vine did.

[Palatino]

Even shallower than Vine? God help the world.

[wobbled]

I work in a school and see first hand how social medias such as tiktok rot childrens minds. Right now we have mindless vandalism and theft being labelled as 'devious licks'.
I just wish the police were called as there's simply no discipline in schools, or by the majority of parents anymore.

[ifohancroft]

There is a trend right now of closing forums in favour of Discord "servers", which I think is contra-productive, and downright ignorant of what the different mediums are.
The best, most vibrant communities I've been to and the most rewarding interactions I've had on the Internet have involved both forums and live chat. Done right, they complement each other by being better for different things.

IRC and phpBB forever! I could have said forum, instead of phpBB, but that modern abomination Discourse counts as a forum as well *ugh*

[micrex22]

I really love this hobby, not only that but I really love how charming this place is (two or three threads of millennial battle royale will not stain years of kindest group of strangers I've ever knew), but I really feel like we completed the main quest of keyboards. Yes, we still have side quests in our list, like mass producing a 1:1 beamspring module or find X unicorn, yet the factor of grace is no longer there. The only "new" stuff is a procedural-like mass production of MX based "custom" keyboards with the same keycap family in a bunch of different color schemes.
I would love to see your opinions on this subject here.

I'm from the vintage Geekhack days (I kept hitting Ripster's posts on random topics until I finally was convinced I needed to join -- this was uhhh before the 'great split' of when Webwit left to co-found Deskthority with Sixty and Ripster was banned). What I mean to say is -- those days are long dead and there's always a microculture of people that come and go.

Part of the problem is, you can get deep into the keyboard topic; but once you completely immerse yourself and start repainting and building your own Model Fs you eventually reach a threshold and slowly lose interest.

Some of us have permanently moved on, others 'dip in' occassionally now and then. It's a niche topic that has a rather limited lifespan for constant discussions. That's why you end up with clusters of people who come and go once they've become wizards of the discipline.

[ifohancroft]

I really love this hobby, not only that but I really love how charming this place is (two or three threads of millennial battle royale will not stain years of kindest group of strangers I've ever knew), but I really feel like we completed the main quest of keyboards. Yes, we still have side quests in our list, like mass producing a 1:1 beamspring module or find X unicorn, yet the factor of grace is no longer there. The only "new" stuff is a procedural-like mass production of MX based "custom" keyboards with the same keycap family in a bunch of different color schemes.
I would love to see your opinions on this subject here.

I'm from the vintage Geekhack days (I kept hitting Ripster's posts on random topics until I finally was convinced I needed to join -- this was uhhh before the 'great split' of when Webwit left to co-found Deskthority with Sixty and Ripster was banned). What I mean to say is -- those days are long dead and there's always a microculture of people that come and go.

Part of the problem is, you can get deep into the keyboard topic; but once you completely immerse yourself and start repainting and building your own Model Fs you eventually reach a threshold and slowly lose interest.

Some of us have permanently moved on, others 'dip in' occassionally now and then. It's a niche topic that has a rather limited lifespan for constant discussions. That's why you end up with clusters of people who come and go once they've become wizards of the discipline.

Didn't think I'd see you here

[Muirium]

Some of us have permanently moved on, others 'dip in' occassionally now and then. It's a niche topic that has a rather limited lifespan for constant discussions. That's why you end up with clusters of people who come and go once they've become wizards of the discipline.

^ Yup. I sometimes get interested again, but it's hard to get as deep as when you were still starting. There's a natural limit on this stuff. Especially when it comes to storage.

[andreas]

…but that modern abomination Discourse counts as a forum as well *ugh*

I'm really curious on your distaste for Discourse. Is it the tagging and lack of 'true' subforums?

Cheers

[ifohancroft]

…but that modern abomination Discourse counts as a forum as well *ugh*

I'm really curious on your distaste for Discourse. Is it the tagging and lack of 'true' subforums?

Cheers

I hate pretty much everything about its layout and user interface. I find it fine when used as a sort of a questions and answers website (probably because I am used to them being ugly and uncomfortable to use, as well as the fact that I don't spend a lot of time on them so I don't need them to be comfortable to use), but not as a forum. For me, forums are and should be, phpBB and the like.
I am sorry that I can't give you a more specific answer. Even if I did, I don't think it would be more useful than what I said anyway, as I'd have to say:
I don't like the presence of (and list all Discourse features)
I want it to have (and list everything that phpBB has)

I guess I just find the interface ugly, uncomfortable to use, I don't like how things are accessed/presented/structured/sorted/grouped. I think a forum should be simple and to the point (phpBB).

In phpBB you just have a list of forums, optionally grouped into sections and that's it (I haven't ran a forum in awhile so I don't remember but I think you can also group the sections into sections and the forums into forums if you want)

Yes, generally, on phpBB and most forums the user profile and preferences pages are a bit more complicated than they need to be, but it's not like it's better on Discourse and with the right modules, they be made to be just peachy. And that's just a thing or two I personally don't like on default installations, that would otherwise make forums (phpBB mostly) absolutely perfect in every single aspect for me.

[andreas]

Thank you for taking time to elaborate on your experience. Very insightful.

[headphone_jack]

I think that if Discord added a feature that could archive entire conversations for later use, then all our platform problems would be solved. I daresay that the majority of knowledge from Deskthority is in its forum more than its wiki, as many discoveries were just never added to the wiki out of laziness. The discord is already used by quite a large portion of our community, it would be excellent if the ability to archive data was added.

[Polecat]

I think that if Discord added a feature that could archive entire conversations for later use, then all our platform problems would be solved. I daresay that the majority of knowledge from Deskthority is in its forum more than its wiki, as many discoveries were just never added to the wiki out of laziness. The discord is already used by quite a large portion of our community, it would be excellent if the ability to archive data was added.

I agree about the vast amount of knowledge in the forum. I have quite a few keyboards that aren't covered in the wiki, or at least not with important details or photos. But laziness is not the reason I haven't posted them there. Having to learn a new language with a steep learning curve from scratch, wade through arcane explanations and seemingly arbitrary rules, and endure childish arguments about what is posted there or how it's posted are what has kept me from adding to the wiki. And of course now we have a corporate owner who wants to turn the site and everyone's past work into a profit-making entity. Nothing to do with laziness, at least for me.

[zrrion]

Anything of value that I post on discord gets reformatted to be more coherent and posted to the forums. If the visual editor was working still I might bother to put stuff on wiki as well. Discord is good at "live posting" as you discover things but once you're done with that the forum is a vastly better place for publishing that information.

DT isn't dying IMO, but a lot of the easy discoveries and great deals are gone already so stuff likely feels.less exciting as a result.

[lhutton]

My problem with Discord and Reddit (and most things modern internet to be fair) is that we've replaced open standards, self hosted/self determined software and protocols with products from companies hosted on their machines. As flawed as phpBB there is far more control over it by the community and admins than something like Discord. The data here is also relatively easily exported unlike modern hosted chat/community products.

I just never feel like I have any skin in the game on Megacorp Community Product #9585 and at the end of the day if you build a community on their infrastructure and software you have a hard time moving that somewhere else should the need arise. Good old vendor lock in.

The information in the Wiki is invaluable, it needs to be backed up and distributed IMO.

[ifohancroft]

My problem with Discord and Reddit (and most things modern internet to be fair) is that we've replaced open standards, self hosted/self determined software and protocols with products from companies hosted on their machines. As flawed as phpBB there is far more control over it by the community and admins than something like Discord. The data here is also relatively easily exported unlike modern hosted chat/community products.

I just never feel like I have any skin in the game on Megacorp Community Product #9585 and at the end of the day if you build a community on their infrastructure and software you have a hard time moving that somewhere else should the need arise. Good old vendor lock in.

The information in the Wiki is invaluable, it needs to be backed up and distributed IMO.

I can't agree more.

[0100010]

I'm guilty of being very active on both DT and GH for a while a few years ago, then stepping away. Just happens cause hobbies shift or 'life happens'. I was very busy with work for a solid 2 years, had 'all' of the keyboards I wanted in hand, so didn't spend as much time here. But I am glad the forum is still here, I will try to be more active again.

[linuxfanatic]

So as a Gen Z person who's recently come back into keyboards after an extended break, I hope I can add some insight.

Firstly, it is painfully obvious that forums are dying, and my generation is the primary culprit. That article posted earlier about kids not understanding files and folders sounds entirely plausible, because we are so used to receiving information instantly. IMO one of the main reasons why TikTok is so popular is because you aren't really supposed to search for things; you instead just endlessly consume what it thinks you want. I honestly don't know what the solution to this is.

Secondly - as Hak Foo said earlier about the AudioKarma forum, I think we definitely need to look at how these older, active forums stay, well, active. I'm a regular on the CPU-World forum, which has been around since 2001 or so. Even 20 years later, it's still going strong, with a helpful community, little to no drama, reasonably up to date database (with a thread for new requests for addition), and a very active Buy/Sell section. It might be worth looking at what makes forums like this tick, and seeing if we can translate that to DT.

Lastly, I can't remember if it was mentioned in this thread or the one about the future of DT, but I think matt3o or someone mentioned that DT might need to become more niche. I think this might be the way to go. Perhaps if we could revamp the wiki, we could market the whole site as oriented towards the distribution of information - the wiki acts as a database, and the forum could work as a discussion board for new findings for it (among other things).

Oh, and I'm also working on a home server to host my website and such, so I'm happy to have a mirror of the DT wiki available if that's something that interests any of you.

P.S. I recognise some people here from my Geekhack IRC days, which is awesome!

[Muirium]

Grr! Millennials! Plus one! You guys ruined everything!

Actually, you didn’t. The rise of FEEDMEH! “platforms” the like you describe is just the nature of consumerism and collective boredom. The generations before us just murdered brain cells gawping at TV instead of their phone. Same thing when taken to (insidiously self loathing) passive excess.

Dunno about making DT more niche though. Is our problem really too much traffic? Sure don’t look that way to me. Our culture’s always been open and welcoming, no matter people’s expertise. We’ll snark at you, sure, but we’re generally kind about it.

The underlying problem (which came long before the site’s change of ownership) is the internet-wide tide is going out on forums. One day it’ll be back. Maybe. But it could be a long wait.

[Lalaland124]

I looked at the site traffic over the last few months/year and with the exception of July it has stayed the same over a long period of time, so I guess site traffic isn't an issue.

(Funny enough, the people coming from other "social networks" are mostly from Reddit, way surpassing YouTube by like 70% )

Compared to all the other vintage keyboard forums Deskthority is still the biggest. However, my guess is that the engagement has just gone down over time, as most people just search sth in the wiki or browse the forum without contributing in threads etc. as most of the information is already there and new discoveries happen less often as they used to. (I think someone already pointed that out)

So they go to discord where they can just chitchat at a faster pace and in an dedicated app.

Honestly I believe the best we can do is just to stay active as long as it's still fun for us. Like Mu and others already pointed out your interest in the hobby isn't always the same and I'm sure there will be a day when TikTok folks from Gen Z will discover the hobby and go crazy to get their hands on sth like a focus board. They already love collecting stuff like Pokémon cards so it wouldn't surprise me if they migrate to other collecting hobbies.

If that's a good thing, I don't know. However, as long as there's a way to get your hands on vintage boards I believe (and hope) deskthority will never die.