F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[darkcruix]

While I am super busy these days (long hours at work including weekends and personal stuff), I couldn't be as responsive as I like to be. I am sorry, if people are waiting for my responses.
Anyway, tonight I could start to work on sorting out some of the keycaps I have received in various colors and language styles. @Ellipse: wonderful work on the quality ... holy sh!#... they are gorgeous.

IMG_1930.jpeg (418.3 KiB) Viewed 8432 times

[Pete]

... @Ellipse: wonderful work on the quality ... holy sh!#... they are gorgeous.

IMG_1930.jpeg

Very very nice. I’m looking forward to seeing some in person and am waiting on a shipment to Australia (which could be several weeks given current restrictions.)

[e1ven]

Is anyone interested in changing their new Model F Keyboard order to an F62 scumnc / scumyc with the Industrial Gray, True Red, or Silver Gray case? This is one of the two available extras that the factory made, currently not claimed by anyone.

I already ordered one kb with that layout, and don't want to deprive someone else who wants one.
But if no one else else wants it by the time you're ready to ship it out, I wouldn't mind a red one as a backup.

[daphnis]

I bricked my keyboard twice today (had to enter bootloader mode physically to
get a response), first trying to flash QMK with the ``terminal'' feature and then
when trying to enable ``dynamic macros''. Does anyone know what is happening
here?

https://beta.docs.qmk.fm/using-qmk/soft ... e_terminal
https://beta.docs.qmk.fm/using-qmk/adva ... mic_macros

[Ellipse]

The latest update has been posted on the Brand New Model F project site.

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/blog/

I have excerpted some of the most salient sections below:

There are not many new updates in the past month – the main focus is on continuing to mail out the keyboards and key sets, which will continue over the coming months until everything has been mailed out. Please review the prior updates below for other recent updates.

I thank everyone for their patience as I become the final bottleneck of the project, QCing and mailing out each order. I expect to continue mailing out orders for the rest of this year into early next year, so please refrain from asking me when your keyboard or key set will ship as I cannot estimate where any one order is in the queue.

Split shipments of the keys started going out this month:

For approximately one year (2020 to early 2021) there was the split shipping option, where you could get your in stock keyboard early without the included printed keys and use existing Model F or Model M keys while waiting for the new production dye sublimated keys to be ready (the first batch started shipping earlier this year). This helped folks get their keyboards earlier to start using them, as well as helped me get keyboards out early while I had some downtime, so that there would be less of a backlog once the keys were ready. Of course many keyboards with unprinted key sets also went out at that time, when their spot in the queue came up.

After testing and mailing out a whole lot of keyboards in recent months, this month I switched gears to start mailing out the “all in stock” split shipping key sets. If you ordered a key set that is not yet in stock (example: international language sets, custom extra keys, front printed keys, Industrial SSK 12 key set, etc.) then you still have to wait for everything to be in stock before the remaining items in your orders can ship. First up in the priority is all of the “all in stock” low serial project supporters, and then the “all in stock” remaining sets after that.

Once again I will note that I am incredibly appreciative of the patient community of Model F fans who have been waiting for this last piece of the puzzle, a “key” part of the project (pun intended!), to finish and who support the project’s philosophy of high quality standards even at the expense of delays. Without such a patient community, this project could have easily gone in another direction. Brand New Model F Keyboards started shipping in December 2019 and will continue shipping throughout the rest of this year into early next year, so do not be alarmed if your keyboard has not yet shipped; I haven’t forgotten about anyone! Please do read the previous posts for more details about the challenges and scary parts (!) of the journey so you can see the reasons behind the past delays and bottlenecks that held things up.

Remaining key sets to be produced:

The factory is still working on the international sets and extra keys. This year Zed and I have been reviewing and approving the sets as photos of the sample sets have been sent to me by the factory. Most of the international sets have been approved as of this point in time but the factory still needs to work on the Front Printed key sets and all the various Extra Keys, which have always been the last priority, after the main sets, HHKB sets, and Mac sets are all completed.

"Split split" shipping update - a limited option:

The remaining key sets are expected to be completed in the next 1-2 months: international sets, front printed sets (including Industrial SSK 12 key set), and all the various Extra Keys. Details behind the delays and process are below and on the blog post. There have been some requests for "split split" shipping for those who want the new Model F key sets but whose orders are not yet "all in stock" (for example, if they ordered any of the above-mentioned sets). Previously everything had to be all in stock to ship but I am now opening up a limited window for those who prefer not to wait any longer and are fine with an additional shipping cost. Again I recommend that everyone waits if possible so that there is no additional cost. For the split split option please order 10 additional units of the store item $1 increments for US shipping addresses and 20 units for international addresses, and choose free/other shipping at checkout, right before clicking Place Order. This would be something to consider if you ordered a US key set (in pearl/pebble, blue, or dark gray), HHKB 6 key set, Mac 6 key set, DVORAK or COLEMAK 4 key set (different keys nubbed for the home row), or UK set.

Of course this option doesn't let you jump the queue and expedite me mailing your keyboard if it has not been mailed already - this limited option is only for those who want keys and maybe some in stock accessories shipped ahead of time (first aid kits, solenoids, extra USB cables, barrels, flippers, springs, etc.). This option is subject to stock availability.

[Jan Pospisil]

Speaking of front printed sets - does that include the Czech set? (just wondering if it's been finalized since last I asked, sorry.)

[raoulduke-esq]

Every time there’s hope for keycaps it gets smashed again. The emotional roller coaster is painful and is holding my solenoid captive

[Ellipse]

Is anyone interested in higher-force springs? I have a sample set of ~120 springs that were rejected as they required a little more force to process. The whole lot is available to one person so they have enough to fill a keyboard with them; please PM me if interested. Pricing will be based on best offer, with a minimum of $1 per spring. Flippers not included. As mentioned across my various ebay listings, the reason for the sale of these parts at higher pricing is to help recover the significant project cost overruns. Due to slight variations in the diameter of the flipper nubs I can't guarantee this will work with original flippers (none of my springs are recommended to be installed on original flippers, as noted a while back). These ~120 springs are a slightly tighter fit than the production springs, so you have to press them a little more forcefully onto each nub. I would describe the sound as approximately the same as the production springs, maybe slightly quieter but still audible.

I also have 230 QC rejected springs without flippers (sound characteristics are off - too high pitch) available in batches of 80, 120, or you can take the whole lot. If you prefer a changing to a higher pitch spring this is the only batch available. Again, only recommended for new Model F flippers but will possibly work with originals. Pricing is the same $1 per spring only to the first folks to contact me over email or PM, with the goal being to help defray project cost overruns. Air mail shipping seems to have significantly increased in cost per kg / lb in recent months.

raoulduke-esq yes, unfortunately some of the keycaps need more time, and unfortunately there was not enough interest in the buckling spring sphericals to proceed with that project being discussed on another thread. Did you read the section about split split shipping - it is not a recommended option because it adds extra cost, but it's there if anyone wants to split their order so that what's in stock can ship out earlier.

[NathanA]

Since locating pandrew's "private stash", I've managed to build a working copy of QMK from source and flash it to my board!

(Also, I built the firmware for my board while USING my board, so I guess you could say that these keyboards are now self-hosting; heh. )

It's clear that pandrew has put a lot of work into this port. Huge props & thanks to him for that!! The software story of this project is clearly in a much better place today than it otherwise would have been as a result of his labors.

FWIW, it appears that pandrew merged in darkcruix's solenoid/haptic patch into his own repository back in June. Ellipse wrote his build instructions before that, in April, which is why they tell you to fetch a replacement haptic.c from darkcruix's repo. But if you simply clone pandrew's repository and build from that instead (while also making the changes to config.h and rules.mk that Ellipse recommended), my guess is that it'll work fine. (Disclaimer: I don't have a solenoid to test with.)

Keep in mind that if you follow Ellipse's build instructions exactly precisely, you're going to be building against the QMK 'master' branch...basically, bleeding-edge code (though it could be argued that every release of QMK at this point is bleeding-edge!). Since pandrew cloned the QMK repository near the end of March 2020 and hasn't updated it since, you'll be getting a build of QMK from a base that roughly corresponds to version 0.8.72 (as of right now, they're up to 0.14.23). If Ellipse cloned the QMK master branch afresh just before building his most recent firmware binaries that he's currently distributing & flashing shipping boards with (from mid-April), then his copy roughly corresponds with version 0.12.34.

If you want to build from pandrew's source tree, you are going to need to use an older version of qmk_cli, as recent versions are not compatible (changes have been made to the build process since then). 0.0.30 is from roughly the same time period and appears to work fine.

And thanks to darkcruix, I have also managed to build a working VIA-enabled firmware from source as well. This was actually my primary interest in getting a working build environment up and running...not because I'm so much in love with VIA itself -- it is one of those Electron monstrosities, and a closed-source one at that -- but I do prefer the concept of it to the raw QMK experience...

Well, turns out that there is an open-source alternative to VIA called Vial which is a Qt app (! + Python behind-the-scenes, though...) that also appears to be at least partially built atop VIA on the QMK side & has backwards-compatibility with VIA-enabled keyboards! They maintain a fork of QMK for the time being (until they manage to get merged in with the main project), and a Vial-patched QMK build has some extra enhancements above and beyond a VIA-enabled build. The primary benefit to a Vial firmware is that unlike VIA, where all keyboard model definitions are either shipped with VIA itself or sideloaded with a JSON, a Vial firmware has that same VIA JSON embedded within the firmware that's flashed to the controller, meaning that Vial can directly interrogate the board for its own definition. You no longer have to either maintain an external definition file on your PC or wait for VIA to officially merge support for your board into a future version of the configurator, and you don't need to update the Vial configurator app on your PC merely to just add support for a new board.

I was able to successfully build a Vial firmware, but unfortunately it proved to be wildly unstable (would work for a few seconds, or for a handful of keystrokes, and then crash...had to resort to shorting PROG to get back to the bootloader because trying to trigger the layer with the Reset key would also cause the crash!). It might have something to do with the additional size of the Vial firmware...the build finished with only 434 bytes (2%) of space unspoken for & the hex file was a whopping 80KB. But I haven't had time yet to debug anything or attempt to put it on a stricter diet.

But it's possible to use the Vial configurator on the PC-side with a bog-standard VIA firmware flashed to the keyboard. It just requires that you point it at the exact same JSON file that you currently have to manually point the VIA configurator at. So it's no more convenient than VIA itself is from that perspective, but also no less convenient, either. And, hey: you get to use an open-source and (arguably, despite the Python dependency) lighter-weight app!

Though Vial's configurator is compatible with VIA keyboard JSON definition files, it is *not* compatible with keymaps you've saved/backed up with VIA...Vial has its own (also JSON-based) format. But naturally it can read the current keymap from the keyboard directly, just as VIA can, so you can fire up Vial and then immediately make a Vial version of your keymap backup. (And UNlike VIA, Vial keymaps also seem to store the layout settings, too, such as whether you're using split shift/backspace. Nice!)

[jafd]

I know that we shouldn't ask when a particular order is going to be shipped, but rough stats like X mailed/Y to go/Z average per month could really help at least have a ballpark estimate. So that for example I can reasonably expect that my bet of getting mine in 2021 is lost or that there's a hope.

[Ellipse]

Thanks NathanA for the additional information. Earlier this year I did compile the QMK firmware on my linux VM, having updated the firmware directly from the QMK github site so it was the latest at the time. That is the firmware running on the hundreds of keyboards that have shipped in recent months.

jafd as noted before a linear prediction model would not give you a rough estimate as we are still waiting on stuff from the factory and now I am focused on mailing out the split shipping and other non-keyboard orders, to catch up on things. As noted before, everyone should expect the remaining orders to go out over the coming months into early next year as the backlog winds down. My apologies I cannot be more granular. We still have a ways to go before everything is mailed!

[Wazrach]

New batches of repro barrels are very good. They are smooth and hold the keycaps very tightly, far more so than any OG barrels I have experienced. I asked Ellipse about this and this wasn't intentional. I, however, noticed it immediately when I got my F62. They're so good that I bought a full set for my F122, which improved drastically. It isn't bindy, wobbly or scratchy anymore.

Please note I said "new batches" - the F77 I received last year has more wobbly barrels, although not bad by any means.

[daphnis]

Earlier this year I did compile the QMK firmware on my linux VM, having updated the firmware directly from the QMK github site

I'm a little bit confused. If it's possible to use the upstream version, what is the reason for using pandrew's version (that hasn't been updated in a while)?

[NathanA]

Earlier this year I did compile the QMK firmware on my linux VM, having updated the firmware directly from the QMK github site

I'm a little bit confused. If it's possible to use the upstream version, what is the reason for using pandrew's version (that hasn't been updated in a while)?

It isn't possible to use the latest QMK 'master' unmodified, because it has zero support for the xwhatsit controllers out-of-the-box. If you read through Ellipse's build procedure, he first pulls down a copy of the latest QMK, then he also pulls down a copy of pandrew's, and then finally he moves all of the xwhatsit/Model-F-specific code from pandrew's tree (located in keyboards/xwhatsit) over to the main QMK tree before compiling.

Apparently QMK has not changed so much in the intervening time that it breaks API compatibility.

[consensual-penis]

just got my printed caps in the mail and got them on my f62, good shit. They look an feel great!

[dafoomie]

The Model F keys do make a difference over Unicomp's, I'm impressed.

[DeScruff]

Just got my solenoid and keys, they look and feel great!


I guess further update to the paint wearing I noted back in July. Yeah its completely worn off of the corner where I keep my palm and wearing where I keep my thumb. Somedays I swear sometimes the paint feels sticky and the powder coating just starts coming off. in places I don't even have my hands normally. Ahh well.

As for the solenoid. Is there a way to speed this thing up? I swear sometimes when I type really fast (usually something like double tapping a letter, or common letter combinations that use different hands like "th", the keyboard will certainly register Ive clicked both keys, but the solenoid will only click once. It's kinda disorienting.

[Admiral]

Okay I finally got my solenoid sorta installed. Unfortunately, where the video tells me to screw in the solenoid on my F77 in place of the foot it would not fit properly because of the screws on both sides of the solenoid. This caused the keyboard plate to move down on the left side making it impossible (well really hard) for me to screw in. So I just gave up and let it loose inside.

Now that I gave up trying to install the solenoid properly I needed to figure out how to set this thing up properly. I checked my devices and printers to make sure my F77 has QMK installed. If it says "modelfkeyboards.com Brand New F62...etc" that means QMK is installed. But, when I follow the manual to toggle the solenoid with Ctrl and Spacebar and T it does not toggle the solenoid at all. Well that is odd the website says that it should be preprogrammed on a Via or QMK keyboard.

So I went to, what I am assuming to be, the QMK beta website which is linked in the manual, and load up the F77 file and lo and behold on layer two it does not have any mention of a haptic toggle on the T key. Then I realised I cannot even toggle N Key Rollover because LShift and RShift and N doesn't toggle N Key Rollover. Yeah, apparently the only layers I have is the regular Fn layer (layer 1) and the Ctrl Space (layer 2).

So I guess now I am working on trying to reinstall the keyboard map? Wish me luck hopefully I can get everything working by tomorrow.

By the way the printed keys look very nice!

[daphnis]

I see a lot of mention here of a ``solenoid'', and it seems to be a contraption for producing sound. But I haven't been able to find its purpose? Doesn't the model F produce enough sound by itself?

[Palatino]

Plenty - but can you ever have too much sound from a vintage keyboard? The solenoid helps compete with the Selectric and other even louder pre-computer typewriters. It’s a different quality of sound, too: not just a click. Personally I would love a Zenith-style beeper option on all my keyboards.

[Muirium]

My beamer here has a solenoid, the wee blue thing on the top right:



I mostly type with it turned off, but as you ask… What does it sound like? Good grief! It's a bit like a tack-hammer inside your keyboard, right there in front of you. Very much like an old-school typewriter—THWACK THWACK WAK-WAK-WAK!—it completely overpowers the beamspring's own clicks. Turned if off again, phew! What a relief!

A Model F is a little louder than a beamspring, actually, so I've no interest in putting solenoids in my Model Fs! My OG Kishsaver has a wee beeper, which I keep dialled down to mute anyway. These vintage IBMs are PLENTY LOUD ALREADY.

[NathanA]

I'm with Mu. The solenoid thing has always struck me as the keyboard equivalent of an electric car that generates fake gas engine noises. I personally can't understand why having it try to pretend that it's something it isn't is in any way attractive. Let the car motor be the car motor that it is, and the key switch be the key switch that it is.

[Sheepless]

If you look at Chyros's youtube channel, he has typing demos with a 5251 beamspring both with and without the solenoid turned on, for comparison. Personally, I find the solenoid sound glorious, though I couldn't live with it full time. That's why I've ordered a solenoid with my new model F. It'll be used as an occasional bit of fun, but will remain disabled 99% of the time.

[Ellipse]

Glad the keys have started arriving!

Admiral please review the solenoid installation written manual as well as the video. All bumpers except medium threaded are compatible with the solenoid installation, without modification of the case. Firmware configuration is not necessary as the default supplied firmware sets everything up for the solenoids, including a key combination to power on and off the solenoid actuation.

[daphnis]

The solenoid thing has always struck me as the keyboard equivalent of an
electric car that generates fake gas engine noises.

I suspected this and agree with your dismissal. On the other hand, a sound
source could be useful as an output; say, if you have a layout toggle, it could
emit one beep for qwerty and two for Dvorak.

[Muirium]

YOU WOULD CERTAINLY NOTICE ITS DISCREET NOTIFICATIONS.

[Admiral]

Glad the keys have started arriving!

Admiral please review the solenoid installation written manual as well as the video. All bumpers except medium threaded are compatible with the solenoid installation, without modification of the case. Firmware configuration is not necessary as the default supplied firmware sets everything up for the solenoids, including a key combination to power on and off the solenoid actuation.

I have finally got solenoids installed in my F62 and F77! I ended up reflashing the firmware on my F77 with the keymap I needed from the website which had the corresponding keys that I needed.

I will say that I had less trouble installing the solenoid on my F62 compared to my F77.

The only other odd thing is that the solenoid sounds less punchy with the QMK compared to my F62 with the ibm capsense firmware. I realised I had to play with the dwell time a bit more. (Ctrl Space and +/-)
But the toggle is working correctly with the QMK and with the ibm capsense for some reason the toggle is not working Nevermind I got the toggle to work on the ibm capsense software (had to store it in the EEPROM). Another issue is the volume up and volume down keys are not working, but as of now I am just happy to have it working just for the fun of it. Thank God I only had to take apart the heavy duty cases because these compact cases have so many screws I probably would have torn my hair out.

Thanks again Ellipse for these awesome keyboards and the solenoids! Can't wait to buy and try out the Beam Springs! Absolutely great work.

[DeScruff]

I see a lot of mention here of a ``solenoid'', and it seems to be a contraption for producing sound. But I haven't been able to find its purpose? Doesn't the model F produce enough sound by itself?

Yes the F does produce enough sound my it's self certainly!
I think buzzers/solenoids are sometimes used industrial keyboards? A place that has a high noise floor and you need to be sure you actually pressed a button.
Personally I would like if I could set it up so the solenoid clicks when certain keys, or macros are pressed (as a confirmation "Hey you turned on Caps Lock!" - since the Model F lacks lock lights. exc)
But for now it is fun to activate it temporarily in voice calls to truly be "That guy" with no push to talk, and a loud AF keyboard.

I seem to recall the flight service station my parents worked at in the 90s had keyboards that loudly clicked when you hit Enter? (then a dot matrix printer in the other room would print whatever you typed as a physical log) But I could be remembering wrong, it has been like 20 years.

[consensual-penis]

hello all, I'm having issues with my f62, when the cap is off I my d key it seems to respond just fine, but when I put the cap on the way that was shown in the video elipse posted it won't register at all now.

it started off that the d key just wouldn't work from time to time, then I started fiddling with it by taking the spring off and putting it back on (has worked before) but I don't seem to be having the same luck this time. any tips would be greatly appreciated.

If you need any additional info to help, I'm happy to provide, just ask away!

thanks

[consensual-penis]

welp, nevermind I guess, I unplugged the board and plugged it back in, seems to be working with zero issues now