F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[NathanA]

Since the ISO enter is not available in other colours than pebble (AFAIK), I wonder if anyone has tried mixing pebble with the dark gray? I was thinking of letters in dark gray, and other keys in pebble.

I've tried mixing gray and pebble together & personally I don't think it works that well, but that's just my opinion... pebble looks very brown/tan when set next to gray.

I'm not sure what color scheme you were ultimately hoping for, but have you checked with Unicomp? It looks like they offer ISO Enter in *their* version of gray. What I don't know is how close Unicomp gray is to Ellipse's dark/60% gray. If you were hoping for all-gray keys, though, I'd imagine the Unicomp gray ISO Enter would clash less than a pebble-colored one would.

(Perhaps you could do dark gray alpha keys and Unicomp gray instead of pebble for modifiers? Only potential problem with that plan is that I can't say how obvious the difference in printing would be between Unicomp and Ellipse caps when side-by-side on the same board.)

[daedalus]

I wonder if Unicomp make ISO returns in their "Brilliant White" colour. That would be an ideal candidate for dying the keycap to whatever shade of grey is needed.

[daedalus]

Just installed the solenoid into the keyboard. One thing to note is that the LED on the solenoid controller seems to work, although the product description suggests that it does not. You can imagine my surprise (and indeed the amount of profanity used) when I hooked up the solenoid and the controller suddenly flashed a bright yellow when I pressed a key

[shampoo]

Hi

I have a left shift key that is sticky. I've tried the 'wiggle the post solution' several times with no luck.

It grabs when I push on the right side of the key.. To the point where suddenly I am writing in all caps.

Any ideas ?

Thanks.

[dafoomie]

Hi

I have a left shift key that is sticky. I've tried the 'wiggle the post solution' several times with no luck.

It grabs when I push on the right side of the key.. To the point where suddenly I am writing in all caps.

Any ideas ?

Thanks.

I had the same problem, I had to use a tool and wiggle the post and the keystem more vigorously than I thought I should at first, but it worked perfectly.

[Ellipse]

As an update pandrew has recently updated the xwhatsit and QMK firmware to work with the forthcoming updated wcass controllers. As noted a couple months earlier there is a slight design update to remove the 10K resistor pack component which was not needed and has become more difficult to find in sufficient quantity. It is my (limited) understanding that the Atmega controller has a built in resistor that can be powered on or off.

The new firmware is confirmed backwards compatible with the old controllers so it is fortunately not necessary to have two different versions for different hardware - thanks again to pandrew! I will update the files on the project web site in the next month or so.

I am still looking to add the LED+solenoid support to the next xwhatsit controller design, if anyone is interested in helping: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=11046&p=492661&sid ... 13#p492661

shampoo did you see the notes in the manual on wiggling both the key stem and post? If you just do one or the other it will not work in all situations. I think that the post needs to be wiggled and the end of the wiggle should be so that the post is pushed inwards instead of outwards.

[shampoo]

Hello.

Thanks for the replies concerning the stuck keys. I have wiggled and wiggled the stem and post.. I was comparing the white insert level to the level of the right side Shift key and the left side (the side that sticks) appears to be lower then the right. I managed to get it out with a screw and put it back by just allowing the shift key itself to push it back. Maybe that's the issue. Otherwise, I'll continue to wiggle.

[Pete]

I think my new Model F keyboard was impounded by Australian customs (a few weeks ago) as a potential danger posed to Australia

When I look up the status explanation I get:

"Customs Clearance Delay is when your parcel has been held by Australian Customs or the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry (DAFF). For this parcel to enter the country a commercial invoice document needs to be submitted to Customs/DAFF so they can assess any potential danger your parcel may pose to Australia. Your overseas distributor has been notified of the status of your parcel…" etc

[shampoo]

Hello.

Thanks for the replies concerning the stuck keys. I have wiggled and wiggled the stem and post.. I was comparing the white insert level to the level of the right side Shift key and the left side (the side that sticks) appears to be lower then the right. I managed to get it out with a screw and put it back by just allowing the shift key itself to push it back. Maybe that's the issue. Otherwise, I'll continue to wiggle.

A few days later and that was definitely the issue. It's super smooth now too. Always felt a little notchy before.

J

[Ellipse]

As an update pandrew has published the updated QMK firmware (please follow the git link and instructions in the manual on the project web site for access), and has also published the updated xwhatsit firmware, version 0.9.3, on github:

https://github.com/purdeaandrei/ibm_capsense_usb_mods

As a note, the only update was a change to allow the forthcoming xwhatsit controllers with internal pull-up resistors to function correctly. Both old and new xwhatsit controllers will run on the same new firmware versions for QMK and xwhatsit. Unless you want to try a beta firmware, it is not necessary to update to either version as there are no other feature updates.

Great shampoo; glad the key is up and running now.

Pete please keep us posted on the customs issue.

[NathanA]

As an update pandrew has published the updated QMK firmware

I've gone ahead and made new builds of Vial firmware which incorporate this change to support the new revision of the wcass boards.

I've also made a build for the F62 this time around, as well as for the various keymap & layout options vs. just the one. So this new package should have (almost) universal support for all of the keyboard models and variants that Model F Labs offers. (The only one not yet represented is the scumyc F62 variant.)

Highlights:

• As before, this firmware supports both VIA and Vial, but is "Vial-enhanced".
  `
• Included is also a new version of the pandrew QMK utility. This minor revision now supports not only F62 and F77 boards running the Vial firmware, but also works with the pandrew QMK firmware that ships on these keyboards "from the factory", as well as the xwhatsit ibm-capsense-usb firmware (though "Enter Bootloader" is the only function that works with xwhatsit firmware). This way, you don't have to keep around multiple versions of the utility, and anybody still running stock firmware can use a single copy of the utility regardless of the firmware they are currently using.
  `
• Instead of making a bunch of separate builds (.hex files) for each different conceivable layout, I instead made just one build each for the F62 and F77 (which by default includes the standard ANSI layout), and then provided copies of keymap files that can be used with either VIA or Vial to load your preferred layout onto the keyboard after flashing the firmware. This seems like a more sane approach compared to having dozens of separate copies of the firmware for each stock keymap. (Note that because Vial actually supports saving the layout options to the keymap file while VIA does not, there are actually more Vial keymap files included than VIA ones, because for Vial it's actually possible to create a dedicated ISO keymap+layout file, etc.)
  `
• For the F77, I also included a "bonus" keymap: right side "premium" block option #3, which is my personally preferred layout for this block.

I also stuffed the build procedure into a shell script that's included with the archive this time instead of putting it in this post. Do note that it's a very, very dumb script that assumes a lot about your build environment and makes no attempt to error-check anything & just blindly executes each stage regardless of the outcome of the previous one. It'll likely work for most, but you're probably better off just using it as a reference, especially since it does a fresh git clone of both Vial's *and* pandrew's repositories every time. (It will also blow away any existing qmk_firmware directory that you have in your home directory.) That said, you can fire off a build now by doing this:

Code: Select all

cd ~
wget "https://deskthority.net/download/file.php?id=71656" -O ~/newfxx-vial-package.7z.001
wget "https://deskthority.net/download/file.php?id=71657" -O ~/newfxx-vial-package.7z.002
7z x ~/newfxx-vial-package.7z.001 -o`echo ~`
~/newfxx-vial-package/build.sh

But to be clear, you do not need to build anything from source in order to use this firmware. Just download both parts of the multipart 7zip archive (attached), extract its contents, and flash bin/newf##-vial-0p4p1.hex (where ## is 62 or 77) using QMK Toolbox (or your preferred method). Then fire up your weapon of choice (VIA or Vial) and pick a layout from keymaps/via or keymaps/vial, or customize your own.

Enjoy!

[voyager9]

I think my new Model F keyboard was impounded by Australian customs (a few weeks ago) as a potential danger posed to Australia

When I look up the status explanation I get:

"Customs Clearance Delay is when your parcel has been held by Australian Customs or the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry (DAFF). For this parcel to enter the country a commercial invoice document needs to be submitted to Customs/DAFF so they can assess any potential danger your parcel may pose to Australia. Your overseas distributor has been notified of the status of your parcel…" etc

Sounds like they like the keyboard and are trying to find a reason to steal it.

[mrprofessor]

I think my new Model F keyboard was impounded by Australian customs (a few weeks ago) as a potential danger posed to Australia

When I look up the status explanation I get:

"Customs Clearance Delay is when your parcel has been held by Australian Customs or the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry (DAFF). For this parcel to enter the country a commercial invoice document needs to be submitted to Customs/DAFF so they can assess any potential danger your parcel may pose to Australia. Your overseas distributor has been notified of the status of your parcel…" etc

Highly doubt if your keyboard can disrupt the natural ecosystem of Australia

[iwileyh]

When did people who have recently received their boards place their orders? (Assuming you didn't ask for a low serial). I'm interested in seeing how far along they've gotten.

[Sp33ls]

Sorry if this has been covered already on this thread, but I'm curious if anyone else has had issues with the space bar rubbing against the alt keys on both sides? I have a beige F77 w/ beige keys.

My grey blue F77 with dark grey keys doesn't seem to have this problem.

[NathanA]

When did people who have recently received their boards place their orders? (Assuming you didn't ask for a low serial). I'm interested in seeing how far along they've gotten.

I ordered 2 F77s, both with HHKB split right shift, and both in classic cases, along with printed keycap sets for both, on April 28, 2017. I did not ask for custom serials, and I did not ask for advance shipment (send the boards on ahead, without the finished keycaps) during the time that option was offered. I knew it would be a long wait, but I was content to be patient until everything was finished.

I suddenly got notice out of the blue that my keyboards with serials 1168 and 1169 shipped out to me on August 28, 2021, along with the main keycap sets for both + the extra HHKB keys. Interestingly, the first keyboard had a manufacture date code in mid March 2020, and the second in early August 2020. Not clear to me whether that's the build date for the "guts", the case, the final assembly date, or what, but I just found it interesting that the keyboards I received claimed to be ~1.5 and 1 years old already, respectively.

I did also order some extra zinc cases, plus some additional keys with legends not included in the standard sets (e.g., F-key legends on the sides of the top-row numerals, and a handful of others), but the keys with the legends outside of the standard set were not ready to go yet, and the extra cases did not arrive with my first shipment. I presume the cases will go out with the remaining keys once they are finished and my turn in line comes up again.

I'm just one data point, but hopefully that helps give some idea, especially since I didn't ask for expedited anything.

[Ellipse]

Thanks for the update NathanA. The labels correspond to my print dates of the labels, or to the specified dates of a custom serial/date request. The keyboards that went out were assembled throughout late 2019 and 2020.

[NathanA]

The labels correspond to my print dates of the labels, or to the specified dates of a custom serial/date request. The keyboards that went out were assembled throughout late 2019 and 2020.

Ah! Interesting. I remain quite fascinated about the logistics behind this project, so if you don't mind me asking: would you print the label once you had a unit that was next in line to fill a particular order otherwise ready to ship? I'm merely curious why a 5 month span would exist between the dates on labels for serial numbers only one digit apart from each other, and for keyboards that were both ordered at the same time and part of the same order #. Perhaps at the moment my order was beginning to be assembled, there were beige zinc cases in stock (my March 'board), but not black zinc cases (my August 'board).

[allysure]

When did people who have recently received their boards place their orders? (Assuming you didn't ask for a low serial). I'm interested in seeing how far along they've gotten.

Ordered mine in May 2021...still waiting. I guess I am in for a long wait but I have other keyboards to tide me through

[depletedvespene]

I think my new Model F keyboard was impounded by Australian customs (a few weeks ago) as a potential danger posed to Australia

When I look up the status explanation I get:

"Customs Clearance Delay is when your parcel has been held by Australian Customs or the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry (DAFF). For this parcel to enter the country a commercial invoice document needs to be submitted to Customs/DAFF so they can assess any potential danger your parcel may pose to Australia. Your overseas distributor has been notified of the status of your parcel…" etc

Highly doubt if your keyboard can disrupt the natural ecosystem of Australia

Well, if it's a hit with the ladies...

[depletedvespene]

Sorry if this has been covered already on this thread, but I'm curious if anyone else has had issues with the space bar rubbing against the alt keys on both sides? I have a beige F77 w/ beige keys.

My grey blue F77 with dark grey keys doesn't seem to have this problem.

I mentioned in my review from last year that my 5.5 space bar and the 1.5U key to its right did clash a bit, which looked like a slight tolerance margin problem. Still haven't gotten around to file a bit of the plastic on the 1.5U key to wade that issue, though.

[NathanA]

Sorry if this has been covered already on this thread, but I'm curious if anyone else has had issues with the space bar rubbing against the alt keys on both sides?

I mentioned in my review from last year that my 5.5 space bar and the 1.5U key to its right did clash a bit, which looked like a slight tolerance margin problem. Still haven't gotten around to file a bit of the plastic on the 1.5U key to wade that issue, though.

So you believe that -- at least in your case -- the tolerance issue is with the key molds themselves, and not with the barrel plate? Or are you just hoping to work around a barrel plate tolerance issue by filing down the key?

Sp33ls says that in their case, the issue affects *both* Alt keys on *both* sides, which seems like would either mean that both Alt keys are too wide, or the Spacebar is too wide, or the barrel plate had the Alt key barrel holes too close on both sides...hmm.

[depletedvespene]

Sorry if this has been covered already on this thread, but I'm curious if anyone else has had issues with the space bar rubbing against the alt keys on both sides?

I mentioned in my review from last year that my 5.5 space bar and the 1.5U key to its right did clash a bit, which looked like a slight tolerance margin problem. Still haven't gotten around to file a bit of the plastic on the 1.5U key to wade that issue, though.

So you believe that -- at least in your case -- the tolerance issue is with the key molds themselves, and not with the barrel plate? Or are you just hoping to work around a barrel plate tolerance issue by filing down the key?

Yes.

I mean... yes, I'm gonna file down a bit the 1.5U keycap to work around the tolerance issue. If I screw up, which I'll surely do, because these thick clumsy hands are thick and clumsy, I'll only ruin a keycap instead of breaking a barrel or worse.

Sp33ls says that in their case, the issue affects *both* Alt keys on *both* sides, which seems like would either mean that both Alt keys are too wide, or the Spacebar is too wide, or the barrel plate had the Alt key barrel holes too close on both sides...hmm.

In my case, it's exclusively between the shortened space bar and the "extra" 1.5U key to its right. I have toyed around the issue of simply going back to a 7U space bar, but haven't decided to do it so far.

[Ellipse]

NathanA - not sure, but it's possible that someone may have requested a specific serial as part of the custom serial option and then changed their mind, leaving the serial open to being assigned to another keyboard. The labels are printed as needed so the requested one may have been printed earlier.

A number of folks request the lowest available serial (possibly along with a custom birthdate or birthday as the date on the label), while others request the serial number as the numerical digits of their birthdate.

As an update Greek key sets are now offered, thanks to Zed.

I am sharing (with permission) another nice color combination that someone sent me, with the plan to install the custom 12 Key Industrial SSK set when it is ready (the factory is still wrapping up the remaining custom keys and sets and should wrap things up by year end - the approval process has taken longer than expected for these sets but I'd rather see adequately-aligned sets before rapid sublimation can start - every offered key set style has its alignment and content checked to make sure it is good, before the remaining sets can be sublimated).

kb.jpg (175.58 KiB) Viewed 10666 times

kb2.png (59.14 KiB) Viewed 10666 times

[gliucf]

Sorry if this has been covered already on this thread, but I'm curious if anyone else has had issues with the space bar rubbing against the alt keys on both sides? I have a beige F77 w/ beige keys.

My grey blue F77 with dark grey keys doesn't seem to have this problem.

When my keyboard arrived it had this problem, too. More precisely, both Alt keys were rubbing against the space bar wire, and as a result when I pressed down one or both Alt keys the space bar would depress as well.

I was able to reduce (but not eliminate) the rubbing by removing the space bar, bending the edges of the wire inwards, then reinstalling it. It's possible that, had I kept trying, I'd have been able to solve the problem entirely, but as it happened I had an extra space bar wire, and once I installed that the problem went away.

[depletedvespene]

As an update Greek key sets are now offered, thanks to Zed.

Oh, I want to see this.

[Ellipse]

Check out the Full Key set product page on the project web site where the rendering is now shown.

[Pete]

Highly doubt if your keyboard can disrupt the natural ecosystem of Australia

Sadly it’s still being held by customs.

[Ellipse]

Here is some interesting information that someone sent me recently regarding details about keys and keyboard layouts. The links are good to check out too:

Some people have asked if there was a standard for naming keys.
I thought that was a valid question, and here is an answer.

The W3C publishes the main web standards, and it includes standards for referring to both physical keys
and the different meanings associated with pressing one or more of those keys.
From the docs:

CODE
code holds a string that identifies the physical key being pressed.
The value is not affected by the current keyboard layout or modifier state,
so a particular key will always return the same value.

KEY
A key string that corresponds to the character typed by the user, taking into account the user’s current locale setting,
modifier state, and any system-level keyboard mapping overrides that are in effect.
It is acceptable for multiple keys on a keyboard to generate the same key attribute value


Code and Key standards:
https://www.w3.org/TR/uievents-code/
https://www.w3.org/TR/uievents-key/

The motivation and the system behind it:
https://w3c.github.io/uievents/#events-keyboardevents

[robo]

I am sharing (with permission) another nice color combination that someone sent me
...

What is the case color on that one? I can't tell from the white balance if it's beige or industrial grey?

I've ordered industrial grey but have been starting to like the beige more and more!

FWIW, Ellipse, I'm sure you have enough on your plate, and maybe don't even want more Model F orders at this point, but getting some professional product photography of the boards would do wonders. The current photography on the site is, if you don't mind me saying so, pretty unflattering and makes it hard to determine the actual colors due to the inconsistent white balance, etc. I've relied on customer photos posted here and elsewhere to get a feel for how the boards actually look.