Alps Lubricant FOUND!

[MandrewDavis]

Alps oldheads will remember ultrasonic cleaning and PTFE dry lube being the go-to method in the past and while it helps, I wasn't thrilled with the ratio of labor to results. I've been sitting on some scratchy SKCL Browns for a few years and decided to give the boil/wax method a shot over the weekend with some Walmart tealight candles.

Out of 84 switches, 12 or so still don't feel great but that's fine. The boiled original tops felt good but combined with some NOS tops with shorter tabs from Chinese sourced SKCL Yellows, I'm overall really happy how they came out.

[andresteare]

Alps oldheads will remember ultrasonic cleaning and PTFE dry lube being the go-to method in the past and while it helps, I wasn't thrilled with the ratio of labor to results. I've been sitting on some scratchy SKCL Browns for a few years and decided to give the boil/wax method a shot over the weekend with some Walmart tealight candles.

Out of 84 switches, 12 or so still don't feel great but that's fine. The boiled original tops felt good but combined with some NOS tops with shorter tabs from Chinese sourced SKCL Yellows, I'm overall really happy how they came out.

Did you waxed all sliders at once?

[thousandperfume]

I finally got my hands on Sasol 5203, some things to point out:

1. Compared to cleaned stock, it's definitely smoother, way smoother. So an improvement is definitely present.
2. One thing I found about the wax is it can solidify inside the slider pole for the springs, and inside the hole for the keycap. This makes inserting the spring and keycap a bit of a hassle as you have to scrape off the excess wax off of the slider. Otherwise, the switch won't sit properly.
3. I'm not sure if this is because the amount I have put on my switches is too much or not, but it's still quite hard to get an even layer across the parts of the slider that do make friction. Even with proper shaking, it's still kind of random where the wax lands, and the regions where it does land on can become "blocky" for lack of a better word - meaning you have to rub the slider against the housing for a while to sand the excess wax.

So yeah, pretty cool stuff. I think figuring out a way to only put the wax on the parts of the slider that need it (in my testing, it's been the sides and edges of the slider) would be ideal and less messy to deal with. I was thinking of working with liquified wax, and just smearing that on the slider might work better for precision; that way, it coagulates only where it needs to, and you can sand off the excess by rubbing it against the housing, anyway.

[headphone_jack]

3. I'm not sure if this is because the amount I have put on my switches is too much or not, but it's still quite hard to get an even layer across the parts of the slider that do make friction. Even with proper shaking, it's still kind of random where the wax lands, and the regions where it does land on can become "blocky" for lack of a better word - meaning you have to rub the slider against the housing for a while to sand the excess wax.

Yeah, so far my only issue with this method is a consistency and amount problem. I think someone was talking about using isopropyl alcohol as a carrier agent for the wax so you could apply it like a traditional lubricant, but I'm not sure how much chemistry skillz that would require.

[soyuz]

I finally got my hands on Sasol 5203, some things to point out:

1. Compared to cleaned stock, it's definitely smoother, way smoother. So an improvement is definitely present.
2. One thing I found about the wax is it can solidify inside the slider pole for the springs, and inside the hole for the keycap. This makes inserting the spring and keycap a bit of a hassle as you have to scrape off the excess wax off of the slider. Otherwise, the switch won't sit properly.
3. I'm not sure if this is because the amount I have put on my switches is too much or not, but it's still quite hard to get an even layer across the parts of the slider that do make friction. Even with proper shaking, it's still kind of random where the wax lands, and the regions where it does land on can become "blocky" for lack of a better word - meaning you have to rub the slider against the housing for a while to sand the excess wax.

So yeah, pretty cool stuff. I think figuring out a way to only put the wax on the parts of the slider that need it (in my testing, it's been the sides and edges of the slider) would be ideal and less messy to deal with. I was thinking of working with liquified wax, and just smearing that on the slider might work better for precision; that way, it coagulates only where it needs to, and you can sand off the excess by rubbing it against the housing, anyway.

My initial tests were dipping sliders into hot wax and the clumping was way, way, way worse and what led me to attempting boilwax in the first place.

[Lynx_Carpathica]

So I tried the hot water and wax method and much to my surprise - it has actually worked. No more binding on off-centre keypresses, and it even fixed the notoriously crap enter key on the M0118 by applying it on the switch. Applying it on the stabilizer did absolutelly nothing.

I'm shocked how big of a difference it atually makes (when done right and not overapplied.)

Edit: Now I'm thinking of dissolving the candle wax in a carrier liquid, like gas or whatever dissolves it. When it evaporates, it will leave a very thin film of wax behind.
It might not have been the original lube, but I guess by I think it accidentally happened to actually work.

[jsheradin]

Now I'm thinking of dissolving the candle wax in a carrier liquid, like gas or whatever dissolves it. When it evaporates, it will leave a very thin film of wax behind.

Xylene seems to dissolve wax pretty well (albeit very slowly). I soaked some blue alps stems in it and they seem untouched after a few days so it should be safe to use. I made a solution of xylene with as much paraffin as it can hold and filtered out all the particles. Applying it to a surface with a cotton swab and letting it fully dry does leave a nice coat of wax.

I tried a few switches with it and overall it's not as good as boiling imo. The wax never gets back the film strength that it had before being dissolved. Boiled switches are just a hair smoother, less bindy, etc and all the messing around with xylene is way more mess than a pot of hot water.

Spoiler:

Solution

IMG_20211119_124946.jpg (303.63 KiB) Viewed 16906 times

Wet

IMG_20211119_122136.jpg (517.63 KiB) Viewed 16906 times

After drying

IMG_20211119_122332.jpg (205.58 KiB) Viewed 16906 times

[Lynx_Carpathica]

Spoiler:

Now I'm thinking of dissolving the candle wax in a carrier liquid, like gas or whatever dissolves it. When it evaporates, it will leave a very thin film of wax behind.

Xylene seems to dissolve wax pretty well (albeit very slowly). I soaked some blue alps stems in it and they seem untouched after a few days so it should be safe to use. I made a solution of xylene with as much paraffin as it can hold and filtered out all the particles. Applying it to a surface with a cotton swab and letting it fully dry does leave a nice coat of wax.

I tried a few switches with it and overall it's not as good as boiling imo. The wax never gets back the film strength that it had before being dissolved. Boiled switches are just a hair smoother, less bindy, etc and all the messing around with xylene is way more mess than a pot of hot water.

Spoiler:

Solution
IMG_20211119_124946.jpg

Wet
IMG_20211119_122136.jpg

After drying
IMG_20211119_122332.jpg

All right then. I'd say try this: Just for test. put in some Lithium soap based grease (maybe 5-10% in a small ammount?). It might hurt the plastic tho, I'm afraid.

[NeK]

Make sure you boil the switches for at least 24 hours, constantly stirring them while saying a prayer to God, or Gods or whatever you believe in. After the 24 hour boiling is done, if they are still dirty (they will be), just use plain dish-soap and water to clean them. And there's no need for wax, at all, they will probably be much better just by cleaning. Also, *hint hint* wax does nothing.

I just wondering why this shenanigan is discussed in the topic "Alps lubricant found". Isn't this about the OG lubricant? Which I actually did find what the ingredients were? Or am I missing something?

[thousandperfume]

Regarding lithium soap, IIRC the ingredients for the original lubricant alps used was: Paraffin based mineral oil + Lithium soap + Additives. The lithium soap was added originally to thicken the oil to make into a grease. Now I'm not entirely sure about the difference between paraffin wax and paraffin oil (as I read from earlier posts, "paraffin oil" is just another word for hydrocarbon oil or mineral oil.). But you could supposedly add lithium soap (I assume you could take it from regular lithium greases) to thicken it into a grease. I was watching a few videos on bike chain waxing with paraffin wax, and they mentioned adding 1.5 micron PTFE powder as an additive, in a ratio of 10:1 with paraffin and PTFE respectively.

Take what I said with a grain of salt as I'm not a chemist but it's probably worth a try. Mixing the PTFE powder would probably be able to replace the wet lubricant on the top housings.

Honestly, boilwaxing gets really messy with the wax getting into the hole where the keycap sits, or filling up the pole where the spring sits. It takes a while to scrape the unwanted wax off, so finding a better method would be nice. I'm pretty sure you would be able to use a silicon based grease as posted earlier to achieve similar results with less effort.

[NeK]

Yes the OG lube ingredients are Lithium Soap thickener, Paraffin Oil (long chained Hydrocarbons really) plus some petroleum solvents, which I guess were used for making it in to a spray.

The unknowns are: 1) what kind of hydrocarbons i.e. long chained but how long? Branched? And if yes then how? 2) was it a spray? 3) what was its consistency? NLGI 0? 1? 2? and 4) was the lube actually a dampening grease and not lubricating?

For the above my educated guess is: 1) high number and long, above 30 atoms 2) most probably yes 3) I am confident it was very thin, I would guess NLGI 0. And finally 4) it was definitely a dampening grease. Which is a whole different world of lubricants.

Lithium Soap seems to be one of the best adhesive thickeners for those particular plastics.

In a nutshell, we should search for a Lithium Soap based dampening grease, with synthetic oil (which essentially consist of high number HC atoms and would match the "paraffin oil") with an NLGI 0 or at most 1.

Pay particular attention to the dampening, this is the clue.

I already have found one that match those properties, but I haven't managed to order it yet. It seems it's strictly marketed in central Europe.

RENAX GLEITSPRAY which is the spray version of RENAX GL 1

They are cheap but I haven't found any store that will ship it to me.

[Lynx_Carpathica]

it does work. without even boiling them clean. Restored my slow unbranded top whites, and some of my salmons in my m0118. boiling water, crap ton of wax that has to be wiped of after it cools down. Theese switches have been cleaned before, ultrasonically last year. Than thrown in a bag and put on the top of my wardrobe, due to lack of lubing. They are not scratchy, but bind like crap (SKCM White, M0118 is my daily driver). So, I did NOT boil the switch parts, it was unnescessary. I just dunked them into wax floating on top of the water. That's all it needs, that miniscule ammount.

I would be extremely happy to try the lubes you found, but I am broke due to my school, and I wanted to try alternatives. All praises go to You, naturally.

Before posting, I thought I'd make a video about it. This poor chicony was so bad, I wanted to yeet it tf away constantly while typing on it.
https://youtu.be/CJDN49wK0FM


Edit: I just saw the comment on top of it. Anyway, I'll create a new topic called wax mod, if it doesnt exsist yet.
Central europe, you say? Is hungary center enough? I'd offer to proxy it to you, if you can find any.

[thousandperfume]

It seems like the type large industries buy in large quantities, a quick search didn't yield good results for me, but maybe there are similar enough alternatives. I'll update the post if I find things with a similar composition.

[NeK]

@lynx check out my video response

https://youtu.be/2_OTsj8aQEo

[Lynx_Carpathica]

I understand your standpoint. But keep this in mind, my goal was to restore this white board I had given up on. It has upstroke clicks, etc. It just needed some love, and finally there was a mod that was cheap, and easy to do, that actually worked. We'll see how long it holds up, but for now, it seems to be okay. It did away with the friction in the corner presses, and now is useable. Tho the tactility still drives me up the walls after typing this long story after the delecate salmons.


Anyway tldr, I'm don't argue with the importance of the og lube, since it is very important to get blues back where they belong; to the top. The Wax mod seems to be an alternative untill we find that specific lube. This candle stuff just *happened* to work, regardless of being chemically unrelated to it. It is just an accident that it works, what I'm trying to say.

[mcmaxmcmc]

[NeK]

I thought we said waxboiling is offtopic to this. Did you even read before posting?

[zrrion]

don't see anything in the OP saying waxboil is forbidden

[Lynx_Carpathica]

don't see anything in the OP saying waxboil is forbidden

True. But let's agree to disaggre, and please leave this topic to the OG lube.
Come here for waxing instead:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26656

[Polecat]

...but what if the original lube was wax?

[zrrion]

The OG lube does have a very similar appearance as it exists today. Its not produced anymore and all present examples are expired though so recreating it will be hard without the manu spilling the beans on the formula imo

[Polecat]

I was facetiously commenting on the request to not talk about wax here because this thread was about the original Alps lube.

[Erderm_]

I thought we said waxboiling is offtopic to this. Did you even read before posting?

"Guys it doesnt matter if wax method is simpler, just as effective, and equally accessible to everyone, lets continue to talk in circles about what discontinued chemicals were used!"

[NeK]

...but what if the original lube was wax?

What if it was philadephia cheese? Let's fu ck this topic completely guys !!! I'll start. I have a great idea about traveling to Mars. We should build a spaceship out of keyboards and wax. That would be cool.

[NeK]

"Guys it doesnt matter if wax method is simpler, just as effective, and equally accessible to everyone, lets continue to talk in circles about what discontinued chemicals were used!"

"by smoking this joint and eating a shroom or two, we can even make sex to a garbage can. It is just as effective and equally accessible to everyone. Who needs the real thing? It is overrated anyhow, am I right?"

[Polecat]

...but what if the original lube was wax?

What if it was philadephia cheese? Let's fu ck this topic completely guys !!! I'll start. I have a great idea about traveling to Mars. We should build a spaceship out of keyboards and wax. That would be cool.

Sorry, I was trying to make a humorous comment, but I guess that has no place here either. Trying to keep replies narrowly on-topic makes about as much sense to me as a purist not peeing in the shower.

[NeK]

don't see anything in the OP saying waxboil is forbidden

This topic is for the original ALPS Lubricant. Wax, candle wax or even waxing your vagina, are just not that, they are not relevant. Thus off-topic.

[NeK]

...but what if the original lube was wax?

What if it was philadephia cheese? Let's fu ck this topic completely guys !!! I'll start. I have a great idea about traveling to Mars. We should build a spaceship out of keyboards and wax. That would be cool.

Sorry, I was trying to make a humorous comment, but I guess that has no place here either. Trying to keep replies narrowly on-topic makes about as much sense to me as a purist not peeing in the shower.

You are not making "humorous comments", you are feeding the trolls in order to derail this topic even further, sending it completely out of earth orbit to outer space. So as I was saying, what do you think of the keyboard spaceship? We will built it and just put it in this topic and it will take it all the way to Mars without even needing any fuel.

It's not that hard to make, come on Daniel-san: Wax on, Wax off... Wax on, Wax off. Wax on, Wax off. We're gonna make it!

[Polecat]

don't see anything in the OP saying waxboil is forbidden

This topic is for the original ALPS Lubricant. Wax, candle wax or even waxing your vagina, are just not that, they are not relevant. Thus off-topic.

Uh even if the original lube *was* wax? Ducking, again, but it's at least a possibility, right?

Guess I'll have to ban myself since we have no mods to do it.

[NeK]

don't see anything in the OP saying waxboil is forbidden

This topic is for the original ALPS Lubricant. Wax, candle wax or even waxing your vagina, are just not that, they are not relevant. Thus off-topic.

Uh even if the original lube *was* wax? Ducking, again, but it's at least a possibility, right?

Guess I'll have to ban myself since we have no mods to do it.

Very funny. Did you miss the part where we actually found out that it was not wax? Yeah, well let me update you: it was not wax.

Now ask again. It's fun.