Mu's New HHKB

[Muirium]

Our tale begins two weeks ago. I finally went and sprang on a plan I first prepared in 2014. At last, I bought my black HHKB.



It needed damping rings. I gave it damping rings. (I've had those set aside for years.) Ditto PBT spacebar: soon done. But it needed something else, and I knew it. No HHKB is complete for me without Hasu's controller.

Just as the you-know-what was kicking off you-know-where, my parcel from Japan touched down from the long haul flight I suspect it couldn't have made just one day later. Then on Saturday my Hasu HHKB Bluetooth controller arrived at my door. Yes! Time to get get it in there. This sweet little HHKB has been crying out for it since I opened the box!

Here's the two controllers, side by side:

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I noticed that revision date straight away. I wonder what he's improved these last few years? Well, more on that in a bit, when I turned it on. I also noticed that mysterious footprint for an absent ICSP, whatever that is; and the pins for access to PD0 and PD1 by the reset button (which sits behind the DIP switch access hatch) and the signalling pins down by the Bluetooth chipset. Room for future expansion? I'll go ask.

Hasu's controller is much lower profile than Topre's own:

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Note the power switch and LED alignments with the Topre PCB's USB hub ports, so they all line up nicely with the shell. None of those USB A ports on this, but it's got something else inside:

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TMK power! The stock controller gets the job done, but has three flaws for me. First: it's non-programmable, unlike this one's deep powers. Second: it chews through juice, even with nothing connected to the hub. Gross! The few times I hooked this HHKB up to my laptop so far, I noticed the higher battery drain right enough. Come on! No such problem with Hasu's. Oh, and the third thing: this one's Bluetooth. Killer!

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Hasu's PCB fits in just nicely, as a direct replacement. You slide it under the chassis clip, then line up the ports and slip it over the peg on the left. One screw goes back in on the right, and now you're ready to plug in your battery and the keyboard PCB's ribbon cable. That cable, incidentally, is the nervous part: its connector is real slim and you don't have a handle on it when you need to pull it out. It's well made, however, so you… oh boy… pull the wires and out it comes no bother. It's been years since I last did this upgrade so I'd forgotten not to worry!

Alright, time to turn it on:

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And it works perfectly! Indeed, even better than I'm used to. Hasu's improvement is that this controller auto-reconnects to the host when you turn it on. I noticed this once I'd flashed it with my own TMK settings and found it ready waiting for me, unexpected. Had to check I wasn't dreaming by flipping the power a few times. It's flawless! Awesome.

So ends the flash photography segment of this report. Here's what my new HHKB looks like in daylight:

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Ninja.

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Its elder brother is still, to my eye, the prettier of the two. I just love those Topre dyesubs in high contrast. But this one's got such style, I'm won over to the "black on black" look, like I never was till now. The legends are so near-invisible it works quite well with the blank second half of my PFU HHKB trim kit. But seeing as I've some years heavy-duty experience with this very layout, I'm not complaining! I know my way around.

I'm well chuffed with both these keyboards, black and white, both silenced, programmed and Bluetoothed. Without a AA hump between them.

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The white one's finally getting some rest in its case! Oh, I'll be back. But just look at how the black model gets along with my M1.

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I don't often type on it up there like that, this board's one for kicking back.

[Muirium]

Continuing an old investigation:

Old one:
MODEL: PD-KB400BN
PART NO.: PA50951-1383
SER.NO.: 001668
REV.: A0
DATE: 2008-05

New one:
MODEL: PD-KB400WN
PART NO.: PA50951-1381
SER.NO.: 012149
REV.: A2
DATE: 2015-07

My Type-S:

MODEL: PD-KB400WS
PART NO.: PA50951-1384
SER.NO.: 002544
REV.: A1
DATE: 2014-08

And so to this new, black one, many years later:

MODEL: PD-KB400B
PART NO.: PA50951-2270
SER. NO.: C11L002140
REV.: A0
DATE: 2020-05

The W and B in the model code refer to White and Black, and S is Type-S. I suspect N means "No legends" as Webwit himself describes:

These two are different series btw, Blank black vs black white. Still no huge numbers I guess for whatever serie or in total. My first one was a printed white HHKB, one or two months older. Then I went colemak and blank and sold it!

Spoiler:

My collection circa 2008. On the screen: geekhack. Just a couple of guys. No ripster. After that they fucked up the design with something orange. That's not a dildo.

My late production run 2020 model here isn't a direct follow on from Webwit's first in 2008, then. My guess is its "2140" serial number may refer to the year of 2020 rather than the total number of black Pro 2s (with legends) ever made! I reckon there's tens of thousands of HHKBs of every type out there, a few hundred thousand total. Pretty elite, but viable too. The sweet-spot!

[Muirium]

Hasu got back to me on the controller features I mentioned in my opening post:

Its auto reconnection feature is controlled by the bluetooth module, my firmware does nothing for that basically. How fast reconnection works seems to depend on timing and settings of computer. Sometimes fast but it takes a few tens secs otherwise. In the end, the modules is reliable and good enough for our purpse except for its power consumption and price.

I'm not sure but I guess old module revsion also can do 'auto reconnect' as well. You can try to remove its setting(pairing info) from your computer, and remove infor from the module by pressing both shifts and 'p' on HHKB. After that connect them again.

Oh? I tried that and now both my HHKBs auto-connect. Nice! The older one is a little slower at it, but still takes just a few seconds. A nice improvement, simply from resetting the pairing info it’s been storing all these years. I've moved from one laptop to another with it, without ever resetting that Bluetooth module. Now I'm glad I did. Recommended for anyone with Hasu's BT HHKB controller!

ICSP can be used to program MCU(ATmega32u4) when you cannot program through USB for some reason. It is rarely used by users including me. This pins cannot be used for extension purpose. You can find similar ICSP 2x3 pinout on Arduino boards like Uno and Leonardo, btw.

Pinouts near Bluetooth module can be used to communicate directly with it, mostly for debug/rescue purpose.

PD0 and PD1 can be used by users for any purpose, I used for debug at early stage of its development. You can add foot switch or control RGB LED strips with the pins, for example. For BT controller only these two pins are completely free for user extension.

I can’t think of a use for them but a little opening for the future is always smart.

[digital_matthew]

Hey Muirium, I was wondering what the range is for the Bluetooth signal? I was thinking about using a Hasu controller on my coffee table computer, and I like to be able to kick back on the couch. Thanks!

[Muirium]

Pretty sure you could type on your Hasu from at least one room further distant than you can still see the damn computer! I'll take my laptop elsewhere in the house and still have my peripherals connected. As useful as it sounds when mischievous hands, or paws, touch them, sight unseen!

[Go-Kart]

How's the key feel between the two? My new HHKB is noticeably lighter.

Treated it to a "keyboard roof". Not a cat person but I appreciate the graphic.

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[Muirium]

Nice. That'll keep the hypothetical cat hair off! But will it keep your ABS case from yellowing as the years go by? Mine hasn't yellowed at all, as far as I can see, but I keep it in the bag when done.

Now as for the feel of 2014's vs 2020's HHKB: yes, these two are quite noticeably different in weight. I really like the fresh new domes in this darker fella. Significantly? No. But side by side: I like the younger board's feeling better, as they are. Naturally, this one will get a bit heavier with age as well. Nothing to fear, or even grumble about. Only makes me wonder what a 30g HHKB would be like, if I had the domes to try…

For what it's psychologically worth: I barely noticed this one's lightness until I opened it up for the damping rings. Undamped Topre bothers me enough to muffle smaller differences the like of this.

[Palatino]

Treated it to a "keyboard roof".

Ooh, where from? I’m a sucker for anti-dust accessories. But the Bird stuff isn’t cheap.

[Bjerrk]

Now as for the feel of 2014's vs 2020's HHKB: yes, these two are quite noticeably different in weight. I really like the fresh new domes in this darker fella. Significantly? No. But side by side: I like the younger board's feeling better, as they are.

Waitaminute!
I distinctly remember you saying something to the effect of them domes aging like a fine wine. And now you're saying they age like Putin's face?

[Muirium]

Not me. That was Wobbled. I prefer the younger, lighter domes. Just a little, not a lot.

I may just be the kind of sicko who could even like 30g!

[Go-Kart]

Treated it to a "keyboard roof".

Ooh, where from? I’m a sucker for anti-dust accessories. But the Bird stuff isn’t cheap.

Ali Express. Took a good few weeks but delivery was free and the unit was cheap as you like so I don't feel like I can complain. I do feel guilty about ordering such a simple piece of kit all the way from China though. I remember making more complicated things out of acrylic in school at the tender age of 14!

[pyrelink]

What size battery did you use and about how long have you been getting on a charge with Hasu's controller? My HHKB is also from 2014 and the idea of picking up a white one is very tempting. Over time it definitely doesn't feel as nice as it used to - especially after so much use. I take it you used Hyperspheres silencing rings?

[Muirium]

Hypersphere’s rings, yes. I set aside enough of them for this long planned job some years ago. Only got a dozen spare now.

What’s up with your 2014’s feel? I’ve put a million or two words on the clock on mine! Compared to the new boy, it’s still just fine. A little heavier but still HHKB sweet. No signs it needs lubing. I considered it when I gave the black one a once over as I did the rings. But honestly, side by side they’re so similar now I didn’t bother.

Batteries. Short answer: several full days use. So long as you turn them off or recharge at night.

Long answer…

My 2014 HHKB runs Hasu’s Bluetooth from a great big 2500 mAh Adafruit battery. You’re not supposed to use one that big but I had it spare at the time and gave it a go. Squeezed in fine and has been well behaved for years since. I’ve run that board for several epic sessions in a row, just to dare it to run out. Note: without a USB cable backup, so it’s legit! I always cave and give it an overnight charge before it ever run out. I’m just too OCD when it comes to charging hygiene. It certainly lasts a lot more than 24 hours of continuous uptime by my count. It’s still to ever run me out, after surely a thousand charge cycles over the last 5 or more years.

My 2020 black model, well I did run that one out last week! Wondered what the hell was wrong, I’ve been so many years now on eternally charged up Bluetooth HHKBs! I installed a substantially smaller battery this time, I don’t recall the capacity but maybe 800 or so, Adafruit again but way less bulk. It was for Phosphorglow’s SSK controller and has been in a drawer for years, which won’t have been great for it. First day was fine so I ran a test then duly forgot and got caught by surprise towards the end of the second day. I still get at least 10 hours out of that board however, probably a bit more than 12, so it’s fine for full day use. I’ve used it for several long, long days since, but being sure to charge now.

So yeah, you’re not talking multi month battery life like an Apple Bluetooth keyboard. But charge it like your phone or laptop and you’ll be alright. Hasu says most of the power draw is the Bluetooth chip he uses.

[pyrelink]

10-12 hours is a pretty impressive result all things considered. I haven't found an excuse to pick up an M1 Macbook yet so there's no chance the laptop outlasts the keyboard. I think some lube is exactly what mine needs. The spacebar and some of the larger stabilized keys have gotten pretty loud and scratchy. Really tempted to pickup a bluetooth controller...

[Go-Kart]

I had a 1000 mAh Adafruit battery in my Pro 2, and I never found it ran out of me. I'd echo was Muir said; if you treat it like your phone, charge it fairly regularly out of habit, you're unlikely to get caught out.

[Bjerrk]

How come it runs out that quickly? Faster than a cellphone? That seems wild to me!
My Logitech K400 ran for months and months off a couple of AA batteries.

10-12 hours is a pretty impressive result all things considered.

[Muirium]

Because Hasu is not Logitech.

It’s a home brew marvel that he’s made, exploiting the HHKB’s ribbon cable and shell. Not a mass produced, factory commissioned feature-cut controller for a mainstream market tablet keyboard. They’re different beasts, with just as different tastes.

For me, it’s ideal. I get the TMK programmability, the much nicer native Pro 2 shell, and a battery which charges by plugging in a USB cable overnight. I’ve no doubt the HHKB BT lasts days longer on its AAs. But that hump! And another bloody thing to have to pop open regularly and fumble around for an external charger. No thanks. Aren’t we past all that yet? Even my 2500 mAh battery weighs less than a single AA, keeping the original HHKB lightness and centre of gravity, too.

Besides: £127 for an unused black Pro 2. Can’t say no that!

[Bjerrk]

Because Hasu is not Logitech.

Well, that in itself doesn't explain anything His converters are miles better than anything available "mass market". I really hold his stuff in the highest esteem!

It’s a home brew marvel that he’s made, exploiting the HHKB’s ribbon cable and shell. Not a mass produced, factory commissioned feature-cut controller for a mainstream market tablet keyboard. They’re different beasts, with just as different tastes.

Again, doesn't really say much. "They're just different, someone else made them". That's, at best, a sociological explanation

Would be interesting to consider where the dominant power draw is. Similar concerns were raised about e.g. the TEX Shinobi:

So one update: battery life is dreadful. Like 3-4 days in my usage pattern dreadful. (I get like 2-3 weeks out of a charge on a ThinkPad Compact Bluetooth Keyboard in the same usage pattern.)

Notably, the TEX Shinobi is of course good old "resistive" sensing, not capsense. So it seems unlikely that the power draw of the capsense is the culprit (I could of course test, if I had a HHKB). And I see no reason why the polling of e.g. the Shinobi would be any more energetically expensive than in a membrane keyboard (correct me if I'm wrong!).
That more or less leaves the BLE receiver-transmitter itself. What's the trick that e.g. Lenovo and Logitech has to make BLE truly BLE?

For me, it’s ideal. [...] And another bloody thing to have to pop open regularly and fumble around for an external charger. No thanks. Aren’t we past all that yet?

Well, I'd rather say: having to charge our equipment every day - aren't we past all that yet?

[Muirium]

Until we put microscopic fusion* reactors into everything and let them run eternally, you’re going to have to charge someday.

Running out of power sucks. The easier to get it up and running again in that moment, the better. Plug in USB cable: done. It falls back to become a regular USB keyboard while it’s charging. Plug it in overnight with your laptop: you’re never shafted in the first place.

As for draw: the Bluetooth module is the main player. I’ll go dig around my email sometime and find what Hasu said exactly. As I understand, commercial BT keyboard makers like Logitech and Apple design their own Bluetooth module and stack. They power save like crazy, knowing they control the chain. Hasu doesn’t. And neither did TEX by the sound of it.

By the way: the stock Topre controller in the HHKB draws so much more power it’s unbelievable. I was shocked the first time I used my 2014 HHKB on my MacBook Pro away from wall power. What’s drawing so much juice? The KEYBOARD? Bizarrely, yes. Actually that USB hub they have inside it, even with nothing connected to either port. Yuck!

*Free energy! Coming soon, since the forties.

[Bjerrk]

Damn! That's good to know Re: the HHKB controller.
Very interested in hearing (well, reading) Hasu's explanation.

Running out of power sucks. The easier to get it up and running again in that moment, the better. Plug in USB cable: done. It falls back to become a regular USB keyboard while it’s charging.

Well, at least it beats the Apple Magic Mouse with it's changing port on the bleeding bottom

[mmm]

Speaking of bluetooth performance. Is it inherent to capacitive sensing to consume significantly more power than contact-based sensing? Is charging and decharging those capacitors hard work?

For Hasu's controller, there are other factors such as TMK not being build from the ground-up with power consumption in mind, and the controller (to my understanding) using the existing HHKB logic, that adds significantly to the power consumption. That being said, TMK and Hasu's controllers are still incredible work.

It is possible to make custom keyboards which can last for an incredible long time. The ZMK power profiler estimates that it is possible for a keyboard without OLED/RGB installed to last for a year, using the same battery as in the HHKB (2000 mAh). It doesn't seem to far off, as my 110mAh keyboards seem to last forever.

(One day I'll probably make a post that doesn't mention ZMK)

[Muirium]

How much of the total power draw do you think the Bluetooth module uses? More than strobing the HHKB matrix and running TMK?

Around 60-70mA? Switch matrix and microcontroller draws 20-30mA, IIRC.

How much is the total draw from the battery, do you think? I’ve run mine for many days straight from a 2500 mAh battery without ever running out. Using a smaller battery in this second HHKB now.

I guess it draws 70-90mA in total on average? The battery is expected to last 28 hours probably. These figures were the result in my test years ago:

• Around 12 hours with 850mAh.
• Around 30 hours with 2600mAh.

By Hasu's figures: the Bluetooth modules takes 66% to 77% of the total power draw. The capsense itself squeezes into that 20-30 mA figure, along with his TMK stack. Note that none of these things sleep to conserve power (or so I understand) which is why total battery runtime is the same whether the keyboard's sitting there turned on doing nothing, or busy like this one now typing. Everything is up and running, fully awake, as long as the switch is in the on position and there's juice still in the battery.

Logitech et al design their Bluetooth boards with a "race to sleep" philosophy for power saving. I don't know how the Bluetooth side of that works, which is surely the lion's share of the power savings. My Bluetooth LE knowledge ends at the initials! The matrix side is easier to understand: you strobe the matrix infrequently, 10 Hz or less still, until activity shows up, then you wake up into 1000 Hz to handle actual typing. Any time you can, you slow down to lower states of activity. Similar games will be in play for Bluetooth, while maintaining the connection to the host, so the first keypress after a long night's sleeping suddenly jolts everything into high gear again.

As for capsense's intrinsic power draw: my guess is it's higher than a contact switch matrix, but not by much. Sure, contact switches themselves are just bits of metal touching, but remember those NKRO diodes all take power, when keys are pressed. (They have non-zero resistance, and current must flow through some of them.)

Capsense isn't charging capacitors, really. It senses capacitance much the same way modern touchscreens do, and they just use your meaty fingers! I think it's an oscillator that strobes the capsense matrix, rather than a static voltage. But you'd have to ask an engineer like Hasu, Pandrew or Xwhatsit who have real experience instead of just a hunch.

[jsheradin]

Surprising to see that the power draw is so high considering I've gotten 4 weeks on a Feather 32u4 Bluefruit and a 4400mAh. Looking at the spec sheets it really comes down to the dated bluetooth module.

Hasu's controller uses the RN42 which claims 45mA during data transfer and 25mA at idle. The Feather uses a nRF51822 which claims a mere 8-10mA during data transfer and as little as 3uA at idle. Bluetooth low energy really is a jump up in battery life.

The crazy thing is that both Hasu's controller and the Feather effectively have redundant controllers doing nothing but waste power. The bluetooth chips themselves are full blown microprocessors with enough GPIO to drive a keyboard matrix alone. I like the nice!nano concept since it cuts out the 32u4 middleman and runs everything straight off an nRF52840.

[Muirium]

Aye. It's silly we do things this way around, but bear in mind Hasu designed his controller many years ago. I wouldn't have suggested taking this route to solve the problem now, but then again I'm not in the controller business myself, so I'll take what I can get! Bluetoothed HHKB Pro 2s are just too useful to me.

Speaking of which: this is the first full morning's work I've done on the 2014 since taking the black 2020 model out for the week. This one still feels real damn good to me. I've worn it so smooth from all these years of typing! The stabs are like butter.

[Bjerrk]

It is possible to make custom keyboards which can last for an incredible long time. The ZMK power profiler estimates that it is possible for a keyboard without OLED/RGB installed to last for a year, using the same battery as in the HHKB (2000 mAh). It doesn't seem to far off, as my 110mAh keyboards seem to last forever.

That's quality info! This ZMK thing sounds better and better.

(One day I'll probably make a post that doesn't mention ZMK)

Or maybe it'll get worse. Do you find ZMK is ZMK'ier than ZMK's ZMK, perhapzmk?

[phinix]

I always wanted to have HHKB and master typing on it, but failed few times.
Is it hard to get used to its layout?
I use arrow keys a lot when text editing etc

[Muirium]

Well, I've been working from mine for years and years now, all while using arrow keys just as routinely as on bigger keyboards. You learn the Fn layer, that's all it takes to live the HHKB life. It's not rocket science or even riding a bike, really! Master the [;'/ cursor diamond and press Fn with your right pinkie. That's it. Maybe consider a white one with nice visible legends first!

Now, I'm such an HHKB veteran I think nothing of Shift+Alt+Left for word selections and such. Shift+Arrows = 3 fingers on an HHKB, and Shift+Alt+Arrows = 4 fingers. I vaguely remember finding chords with the arrow keys a little tricky at first, but it's been years since I noticed at all. I use them all just as freely here as I do on a Realforce or any other board. Plus the HHKB layout works fantastic on my Kishsaver.

You learn once and you open everything.

[phinix]

Well, I've been working from mine for years and years now, all while using arrow keys just as routinely as on bigger keyboards. You learn the Fn layer, that's all it takes to live the HHKB life. It's not rocket science or even riding a bike, really! Master the [;'/ cursor diamond and press Fn with your right pinkie. That's it. Maybe consider a white one with nice visible legends first!

Now, I'm such an HHKB veteran I think nothing of Shift+Alt+Left for word selections and such. Shift+Arrows = 3 fingers on an HHKB, and Shift+Alt+Arrows = 4 fingers. I vaguely remember finding chords with the arrow keys a little tricky at first, but it's been years since I noticed at all. I use them all just as freely here as I do on a Realforce or any other board. Plus the HHKB layout works fantastic on my Kishsaver.

You learn once and you open everything.

I love how non Type-s sounds, but this time had good deal on Type-s.
How does type-s sound? Isn't it too muffled? mushy?
Never had originally muted topre.

[Muirium]

Silenced Topre is *upstroke* silenced. The damping rings go on the top of the of the sliders, where they whack against the case on release. It doesn't affect the downstroke at all, so you still get all that Topre sound, including a juicy clack on the upstroke. All that's removed is the extra thwack of plastic hitting plastic as the sliders top out in their shells:



That's the Novatouch you bought from me some years ago.

I much prefer damped Topre simply because you get a cleaner sound, without that added plastic whacking. I wrote this when my undamped black HHKB arrived a few months ago:

So how is a new, stock HHKB Pro 2 (manufactured 2020) compared to my heavily used Type-S (manufactured 2014)? Well, my immediate impression is this thing needs damped! Sounds much too "thwacky" for my taste. The familiar HHKB sound is all in there, but masked behind that plastic clack. I expected this, of course, which is why I have damping rings set aside to install. But it irritates me even more than I thought! Been a long, long time since I last used undamped Topre. What were they thinking!
…

The sound is not growing on me! My fingers keep saying chill, this is your intimately familiar Type-S, but my ears, ow!

Definitely stand by it. Typing on that same keyboard now, with Hypersphere rings and Hasu's controller, and it's so much better. This is Topre as it should be, for me.

[phinix]

Silenced Topre is *upstroke* silenced. The damping rings go on the top of the of the sliders, where they whack against the case on release. It doesn't affect the downstroke at all, so you still get all that Topre sound, including a juicy clack on the upstroke. All that's removed is the extra thwack of plastic hitting plastic as the sliders top out in their shells:



That's the Novatouch you bought from me some years ago.

I much prefer damped Topre simply because you get a cleaner sound, without that added plastic whacking. I wrote this when my undamped black HHKB arrived a few months ago:

So how is a new, stock HHKB Pro 2 (manufactured 2020) compared to my heavily used Type-S (manufactured 2014)? Well, my immediate impression is this thing needs damped! Sounds much too "thwacky" for my taste. The familiar HHKB sound is all in there, but masked behind that plastic clack. I expected this, of course, which is why I have damping rings set aside to install. But it irritates me even more than I thought! Been a long, long time since I last used undamped Topre. What were they thinking!
…

The sound is not growing on me! My fingers keep saying chill, this is your intimately familiar Type-S, but my ears, ow!

Definitely stand by it. Typing on that same keyboard now, with Hypersphere rings and Hasu's controller, and it's so much better. This is Topre as it should be, for me.

Well, I hope I will like it as you do, type-s is coming, should have it in next few days.
SIlenced Novatouch or Realforce sounds fine, as long as its done right.
Never had hhkb factory silenced, so I'm very curious. All videos on youtube sound very mushy.

Anyway, my experience with hhkb is weird to say at least:)
I had one, bought form Amazon - Hybrid Pro. Fell in love, loved new CTRL and backspace position, but was overwelmed by arros, so I returned it I feel ashamed by that move.
Anyway, I then had a brand new feeling I never had before in my life. I missed it - I was missing my hhkb. Cannot explain what it was, I simply wanted it back. Missed the layout, feeling, sound, size.

So yeah, ordered again