[WTS] Original IBM Model F107's with Xwhatsit Controller Installed

[orihalcon]

If you clicked on the link, chances are that you already know what these are. I have some original F107's yet that are UNRESTORED (other than that I've cleaned their outer metal case with an ultrasonic cleaner and installed an original style microUSB Xwhatsit controller and USB cable).

I believe the remaining ones I have are missing all of their clear keycaps. They are model F's, so they clean up and restore relatively easily (there are many restoration guides out there), but cutting new foam can be a little tedious. I believe Ellipse/Model F Labs and a couple others have some factory cut foam sheets that I am sure would work nicely for the restore. Since these are getting to be 35 years old or so, it's possible that a few keys won't register prior to the full cleaning/restoration as there's often a fair amount of dust on the capsense PCB that has gathered over the years.

Price each is $2200 by direct paypal invoice. These sell pretty much instantly (or did the last few times I've tried many months ago) on ebay for $2400 or so, but I'd rather pass some savings in ebay fees onto buyers here as it's a fair chunk of change.

I also have a couple of partial units with just the barrel plate/capsense plate/back plate as shown. Really all you'd need to do is come up with a case (might be possible to mill or 3D print?) and parts could be taken from an F122 to make a complete keyboard. Looking for $200 each for these sets.

The pictures posted show a general idea of case paint condition after cleaning, but I'll be sending specific pictures of the one you're buying prior to doing any sort of invoicing.

If interested, PM me with the following info:

-Shipping destination - City, State, Country

-Whether case paint condition matters - shouldn't matter if you are planning on doing your own powder coating or other type of paint/vinyl wrap job.

-Whether you want the original controller/cable left installed instead of the Xwhatsit USB controller upgrade. If using with the original controller, you'll need to covert using something like a TMK4704 converter, or I suppose if you had a 4704 system, you might want to use it as is haha.

I can ship internationally if payment is made by paypal friends/family/gift payment for actual cost. The purpose of this is that I do not want to take the risk of any international shipping loss and the above payment types are non-refundable. I will prove that the items are shipped with tracking information, but tracking often doesn't get updated for weeks or sometimes not at all once it leaves the USA.

Continental USA shipping is included and includes signature confirmation.

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[XMIT]

And I remember when we thought Ellipse was a madman for selling rare SSKs for $1000. Now we’re selling F107s for ten times what they cost a few years ago and turning to Ellipse for our key caps. Strange times indeed.

At this rate, a NIB OG Model M from the 80s will put my kids through college ten years from now.

[Jacobalbertus1]

2 words: holy fuck.

[John Doe]

Realised the cases worth almost 2000 bucks.

[inozenz]

And I remember when we thought Ellipse was a madman for selling rare SSKs for $1000. Now we’re selling F107s for ten times what they cost a few years ago and turning to Ellipse for our key caps. Strange times indeed.

At this rate, a NIB OG Model M from the 80s will put my kids through college ten years from now.

looks like ill be space invader millionaire in 10 years :O

[ThermometerSandwich]

Pm sent. I'll gladly take a partial f107 for $200! Heck yeah!

[orihalcon]

True, I could sell them for less, but with the market price being more, they most likely will be flipped either now or a year from now, and that's not a great feeling to know you are selling something for significantly less than the fair market value. They also are the last few, so I'm not really in a big rush to get rid of them.

If you know that the current market price of Silver is $23 an ounce and you paid $10 an ounce a long time ago, are you supposed to feel guilty for selling it to an eager buyer at $21 an ounce when you know that it would immediately sell for $23 an ounce on the open market? Silver buying is even more interesting because metals dealers like to charge $2 to $5 over market price PER OUNCE and you'd be considered very lucky to even be able to buy at the market price without those significant extra fees.

Also, don't forget that approximately HALF of whatever "profit" is made is lost immediately to income taxes/social security/medicare - Example: Federal 32%, State (call it an average of 5% in most states, I've had to pay as much as 8% personally), Social Security/Medicare (Also called self employment tax) - 15.3% = 51.3% tax. Sure, state income tax varies from state to state and I'm pretty sure that XMIT is in Texas where there is no state income tax - must be nice

One could be upset that they didn't buy bitcoin when the price was less than $15 each in 2012 and here 10 years later, the market price is over $40,000 each. I didn't have the foresight to buy any bitcoin, and still haven't to this day, but I do admire those who did and saw the potential future value at $15 and didn't hesitate to buy when that was the going rate.

Market price is just where buyers and sellers are at. If there's no agreement on a price, nothing sells - no harm, no foul.

I'd argue that most vintage keyboards sold today at one time came from recycling centers or classified ads and have a far higher "market markup" than these. Essentially it is you knowing the market value of something and profiting because the seller doesn't know that they could fetch a lot more elsewhere if put in front of the right audience of potential buyers. Or, if they were just going to scrap it, the $5 or $10 they get from a Blue ALPS Omnikey is fine by them, particularly if they don't know that you are about to turn around sell it for 50x that much. Unfortunately, I do not have access to any interesting recycling centers and nearly all the items I've bought and sold over the years were from public websites that anyone else could have bought instead.

The difference here is that I bought these at the going rate at the time and they just happened to appreciate in value, hence this is more like the Silver or Bitcoin example above. The opposite (depreciation) could have just as easily happened. They may have turned out to be not that rare after keyboard collectors really started becoming aware of them looking for them. Tons more supply could have been found out there, possibly making them a dime a dozen. That turned out not to be the case in retrospect, but I do remember multiple batches of 5-10 of these being found by others at recycling centers around the same time I'd bought these.

Anyhow, comments like these are what make people leave the community, and seems a little hypocritical to be upset that someone is selling something at the going rate when they almost certainly paid less for it several years ago as it has since appreciated in value.

I do frown upon flipping something you just bought (below fair market value) from a community member, but that is not what I am doing here. That is actually what I am preventing.

[Scottex]

[/rant]

[Palatino]

Market price is just where buyers and sellers are at. If there's no agreement on a price, nothing sells - no harm, no foul.

This is the key. The sums may be high, but if some people are prepared to pay that because of their rarity, or because they really want one right now, or because they think it will appreciate and they can sell it on - whatever their reason, in fact - then it’s not a mad price. I personally wouldn’t spend that much on a keyboard but that doesn’t mean I’m cross at your prices. I also have failed to find a good Chyrosian recycling centre which yields wonders for peanuts. Now if vintage broken vacuum cleaners became fashionable though, I’d be quids in…

[Go-Kart]

Market value = whatever a buyer is willing to pay.

[Muirium]

Or as I think of it when this happens to something I’m after: whatever some other nutter is willing to be conned.

Just a shift of emphasis really. Same result.

[XMIT]

No state income tax in Texas but we still have corporate and property tax. Also, that’s a uniquely American perspective on a forum full of folks in the EU. I bet they’re telling us to cry them a river as they pay 35% tax and enjoy free healthcare and reasonable new parent leave.

If you find someone to pay you $2k for one of these, then good for you. The going rate for an Unsaver wasn’t too far off of this a year ago.

$200 for the guts of an F107 is a pretty good deal.

The barrier to entry for this hobby sure has gone up. 15 years ago finding a Model M at a thrift store for 5 USD or less was a common thing. As recently as two years ago I found a very good AEK with Orange Alps for 5 USD. It happens but it’s more rare now.

2014-2015 were very good years for keyboards. I miss the good old days.

[Palatino]

Or as I think of it when this happens to something I’m after: whatever some other nutter is willing to be conned.

Just a shift of emphasis really. Same result.

But at the other end, sometimes the selling price is whatever the non-specialist seller is willing to let something go for. So Keyboard X can sell for £20 or £200 depending on who’s selling it, the way it’s advertised, and to whom. Is there, then, an absolute value of such an item? Or just a range of values, or an average value taken over a number of recent sales? I think there was another thread on this - and probably a whole economics module, come to that.

[Palatino]

2014-2015 were very good years for keyboards. I miss the good old days.

And I missed them - damn! That and bitcoin.

[Muirium]

2013-2015 was a classic era. I came here a good bit before XMIT, and I remember very clearly feeling I'd just missed the golden days, as well! Getting an SSK was a real struggle.

The big thing that's different now is there's so much new stuff being made again that's comparable to the classics. Not generally as good as, but not laughably inadequate, as it was. Now is more of a golden age for that.

[Crizender]

Oh my, buying the guts for a project could be fun, but I really shouldn't add more on to the list!

2013-2015 was a classic era. I came here a good bit before XMIT, and I remember very clearly feeling I'd just missed the golden days, as well! Getting an SSK was a real struggle.

Getting into vintage keyboards last year was interesting(with an XMIT F122 being my first one, funnily enough. I'm still happy it survived a trip across the pond!). The market as is has been pretty much all i've seen, so when I see the historic prices of stuff it amazes me how much its inflated. I've got no regrets on anything I've bought over the last year though

The big thing that's different now is there's so much new stuff being made again that's comparable to the classics. Not generally as good as, but not laughably inadequate, as it was. Now is more of a golden age for that.

Definitely agree, with the success of stuff such as the Mini-M its great that its about for affordable prices. Though I do find the originals have something special to go behind them

[headphone_jack]

Would you accept trades?

[thefarside]

Sent you a PM.

[wobbled]

I don't blame you for getting as much as you possibly can from these boards, and I know the majority who bitch about it would probably do the same given the chance.

It is however frustrating to see just how expensive this hobby has become as a whole. I miss the days when rare, sought after boards could be traded or sold for a good deal on forums such as this one, and they weren't viewed as collection pieces by people with too much money. The problem is a lot of us here have been screwed by guys who get good deals from us, with the intention of instantly relisting them on ebay for twice the price.

Anyway, GLWS! I'd sure buy one again if I could afford to, these boards are ridiculously solid, and very rewarding (in a nerdy way, not just financially) to see them restored whether it be to a modern standard, or restored to look like a new old stock vintage board.

[orihalcon]

I agree, I miss the good old days as well. Seems now there is a much greater awareness that vintage boards can fetch a pretty penny, and once more people realized that, the people searching for them got exponential before long. Good news is that this has undoubtedly saved a lot of boards that would have otherwise been scrapped, but makes finding truly "great finds" much harder which was a good deal of the excitement of the hobby for me.

As far as trades go, I've always dreamed of a 4978 (IBM System 3), an original F77, or a Hebrew/English 3278, English Displaywriter Model F (may have been for the Australian/UK market?), or an all white ANSI Ambra Model M. Those last three I am pretty sure I saw on ebay years ago, but missed out on, so they've always been the ones that got away that I still think about from time to time. I don't expect anyone to actually want to trade/sell theirs, so I stopped looking long ago. I haven't been keeping track, but seems there is something like 10 4978's known to the community and one or two will pop up on ebay every year, but I've always missed seeing them in time and I've honestly stopped looking myself due to the realization that it probably isn't a great use of time to continue to search for unobtanium when so many others are looking. Anyone with these should be telling me what they want for them in terms of trade or cash and to be done looking for them, though I could see trading/paying up to twice what the going rate is for them.

I think the few partial F107's that I had access to are all spoken for currently. At one point I tried to powder coat a few F107 barrel plates and the coating ended up being too thick for the barrels to fit through the holes, and I'm not sure what I did with those, so if I find them and can soak them in Methyl-Ethyl-Ketone to get the powder coating off, I could have some more units available later.

[XMIT]

Sandblast with walnut shells to get the powder coat off. I don’t think MEK is going to do what you want. Cerakote is thinner and might work for this application. Maybe.

I don’t think I’ll ever get my hands on a 4978 or a Space Cadet. I’m saving my pennies for a lispnick board. Maybe I should actually sell some keyboards, that would help things along for sure.

ori I’m a little bummed I sold you that I sold you that beautiful APL F122 ages ago, that would have been a fun one to keep. Mind posting a photo for old time’s sake? Separately, DM me if you want to sell off some OG Model F flippers and barrels from an F107. I want to pop them in an Ellipse board to see if I can improve it, the reproductions are just a hair off. I keep trying to buy back the Model F parts I sold to lot_lizard, I even offered to pick them up in person.

[wobbled]

Sandblast with walnut shells to get the powder coat off. I don’t think MEK is going to do what you want. Cerakote is thinner and might work for this application. Maybe.

I don’t think I’ll ever get my hands on a 4978 or a Space Cadet. I’m saving my pennies for a lispnick board. Maybe I should actually sell some keyboards, that would help things along for sure.

ori I’m a little bummed I sold you that I sold you that beautiful APL F122 ages ago, that would have been a fun one to keep. Mind posting a photo for old time’s sake? Separately, DM me if you want to sell off some OG Model F flippers and barrels from an F107. I want to pop them in an Ellipse board to see if I can improve it, the reproductions are just a hair off. I keep trying to buy back the Model F parts I sold to lot_lizard, I even offered to pick them up in person.

I have a spring and flipper swapped F77 from Ellipse, definitely makes a difference!

[Darkshu]

Hello,

I sent you a PM

[thefarside]

orihalcon I replied to your PM but I think my replies are stuck in my outbox. Not sure why.

[Muirium]

The outbox is where they wait to be read. He’s not opened them yet.

[thefarside]

The outbox is where they wait to be read. He’s not opened them yet.

Ahhh thanks. I’m used to outlook where the outbox has unsent messages.

[Darkshu]

I did get your first reply, I sent two other PMs. that are stuck in my outbox as well. I’m not sure how it works as well

Thank you,

[Darkshu]

Hello, To make it short and easy, I am OK with everythink you mentionned

[__red__]

I keep trying to buy back the Model F parts I sold to lot_lizard, I even offered to pick them up in person.

Speaking of lot_lizard - has anyone heard from them?

Last I heard they were dealing with health problems. I'm hoping they're doing better.

[Muirium]

It was a loved one and she died, unfortunately. He’s not likely ever coming back. I’ve been there. Eventually I did return but I can sympathise completely.