FEXT / FSSK with bolt mod?

[NathanA]

Since idollar has not graced us with his presence in some time, I thought I'd try to re-ask a question I've posed before, but buried under a (seemingly) dead thread.

idollar's original FSSK/FEXT install instructions explicitly call out doing a screw mod first and even adds "I do not recommend to use a bolt mod". What is never explained is whether this recommendation is due simply to the belief that the screw mod is the superior solution (which I buy), or whether it's because you are going to have additional trouble installing the FEXT/FSSK PCB into an assembly that's been bolt-modded that you wouldn't have with a screw-modded one (aside from how fiddly the bolts themselves are going to be relative to screws).

So...does anyone know if an M that has already been bolt-modded is essentially disqualified from receiving an FEXT transplant for some reason?

[wobbled]

Back when I had my FSSK I remember it being an absolute swine to tune it (loosening / tightening different bolts) in order to get it to work efficiently & to sound good.
I imagine this tuning would be significantly easier if one was to do a screw mod.

Apart from that I can't think of why else a bolt mod would be discouraged. If you have the time to put into tuning each bolt, then it's going to be absolutely fine.

I really don't miss my FSSK to be honest, it never really sounded as good as a real Model F board. t'was a cool idea though.

[Muirium]

I really don't miss my FSSK to be honest, it never really sounded as good as a real Model F board. t'was a cool idea though.

That's the impression when I watched i$'s video (for the first time in many years) the other day. As a true Model M hybrid, FSSK lacks too much of the F mechanism (barrels and barrel plate) to get the F experience. Cool idea but no, uh, cigar.

I honestly forget the difference between i$'s project and Lot Lizard's. Was the latter bringing the full Model F mechanism to the SSK form factor? That's the one I want!

Edit: more on that topic here.

[NathanA]

Awesome; thanks for the response & first-hand info!

I really don't miss my FSSK to be honest, it never really sounded as good as a real Model F board. t'was a cool idea though.

So interesting that you say that, especially in light of posts like this one. Guess it just goes to show how subjective this hobby is at the end of the day.

I've had it in my mind for a couple of months now that this would be a fun project to try, especially since as much as I love my Ellipse F77 repro, I am one of those weirdos who prefers a full-size 101-key. I'll be sure to post back if I ever get around to it...

I honestly forget the difference between i$'s project and Lot Lizard's. Was the latter bringing the full Model F mechanism to the SSK form factor?

They both were targeting both the SSK as well as the full-size M. i$ only designed a PCB to replace the membrane in the original M sandwich (& then you'd have to source all your own F flippers and springs), while Lot Lizard aimed to provide a complete drop-in replacement of all guts...only thing that would have survived from the M was the outer plastic case/housing. Probably the reason why people tend to conflate the two projects is that I *think* i$ came up with his PCB designs first and Lot Lizard's project used it with minor tweaks applied.

[Muirium]

Ah, right. So, for those of us with Model F barrels and flippers already set aside, Lot Lizard’s project was:

• Custom PCB (i$ derived) ← maybe still requiring a hacky connection to an Xwhatsit controller
• Custom drilled and curved barrel mounting plate
• Custom curved backplate as well?

I’m for reusing the SSK’s own Model M guts where appropriate. The SSK I’d do this transformation on is in sore need of a bolt mod anyway, my nicer SSK remains untouched! That could save a backplate, but the custom barrel plate aye sounds the hardest part to make.

[headphone_jack]

My FSSK is absolutely my favorite keyboard, better than most of my original Fs honestly. I don't know whether it's the layout, the all-plastic case dampening the ping slightly (yeah yeah I know, ping is best, but nice to get a break from) or the fact that it just looks sexier on account of being an industrial, but I don't think I could trade it for anything less than an original Unsaver, and certainly not for cash. It feels very very similar to my F122, perhaps slightly shorter travel, but I wouldn't place it lower than a single other keyboard I own.

I've heard/seen inklings from someone out of China who made full-on metal plate replacements for the FEXT and FSSK projects, with room for original F barrels and flippers. I haven't actually seen one of these assembled yet, but in the coming months as they start arriving in the West we should see some sound/feel comparisons. I for one am excited!

(Please someone take this damn F77 off my hands, I fixed the firmware!)

[NathanA]

Ah, right. So, for those of us with Model F barrels and flippers already set aside, Lot Lizard’s project was:

• Custom PCB (i$ derived) ← maybe still requiring a hacky connection to an Xwhatsit controller
• Custom drilled and curved barrel mounting plate
• Custom curved backplate as well?

I thought it was all of the above PLUS the barrels+flippers+springs (you didn't need to "BYO") PLUS the xwhatsit PLUS it was going to arrive at your doorstep already completely pre-assembled. Only things missing: keycaps and housing. So you literally pull your keycaps off, open up the M keyboard housing, pull the old keyswitch assembly + controller out, drop the new one in, close up the housing, and put your keycaps back on.

At least that was the picture he seemed to paint when I go back and re-read through the thread...but correct, at the very least you wouldn't re-use the M backplate. There are pictures of his prototype barrel plate and backplate in the GB thread.

All that said, the assembly he came up with is a little different than a traditional F, in that it uses screws between the backplate and the barrel plate (in place of the M rivets or the F sliding edge tabs).

My FSSK is absolutely my favorite keyboard, better than most of my original Fs honestly [...] I don't think I could trade it for anything less than an original Unsaver, and certainly not for cash.

Honestly, the thing that most excites me most about FSSK/FEXT is that it makes a keyboard that is at least somewhere in the ballpark of an F an achievable goal for many people for whom it might not currently be one, either due to cost/rarity/lack of preferred layout/etc. I love Ellipse's project but $400+ might be a bit steep for some, and at some point he will cease production (or so he claims!). But Ms are readily available, i$ PCBs and xwhatsit controllers are not that hard or that expensive to get made (ongoing chip shortages notwithstanding), and the total package should come in well under an Ellipse board. And even if some would try a FEXT and conclude it doesn't sound or feel "as good as" a real F, I have to imagine that it's still both a notable upgrade from an M and one whose cost in time and materials is likely worth the pricetag (bang-for-buck).

Of course, genuine IBM SSK are also expensive/rare/hard-to-come-by, but if a PCB can be designed both for the full-size M as well as the original SSK, making one for the new Unicomp Mini M (for those are that specifically looking for an FSSK-alike) should absolutely be doable.

I've heard/seen inklings from someone out of China who made full-on metal plate replacements for the FEXT and FSSK projects, with room for original F barrels and flippers.

Do you have links?

[headphone_jack]

No links unfortunately, was on Taobao a few months ago, last time I looked.

[idollar]

Since idollar has not graced us with his presence in some time, I thought I'd try to re-ask a question I've posed before, but buried under a (seemingly) dead thread.

Here am I

idollar's original FSSK/FEXT install instructions explicitly call out doing a screw mod first and even adds "I do not recommend to use a bolt mod". What is never explained is whether this recommendation is due simply to the belief that the screw mod is the superior solution (which I buy), or whether it's because you are going to have additional trouble installing the FEXT/FSSK PCB into an assembly that's been bolt-modded that you wouldn't have with a screw-modded one (aside from how fiddly the bolts themselves are going to be relative to screws).

The reason is that the screw mod is simply better. I have tried bolt mods. They are much complex to implement.

So...does anyone know if an M that has already been bolt-modded is essentially disqualified from receiving an FEXT transplant for some reason?

It is not. It will be complex to implement.
Having said that, I cannot guarantee that the holes in the PCB will match 100%. The solution is to drill them wider. If this is the case, special care shall be taken not to break any of the conductive lines.

I hope that managed to answer you questions