F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[mode1ace]

Is there a backlog for getting support on a delivered keyboard? I emailed a week ago but have not received a reply, I just need single replacement key as it arrived damaged.

[Ellipse]

mode1ace please send me another email as I don't have your user name in the order database. Some of my email replies (and shipping confirmation emails!) are ending up in junk folders.

As part of the QMK testing I have started with the latest qmk and am seeing the following compilation errors - any ideas? I wonder what the correct options are for the 3 items listed below and what to do with "eeprom.h: No such file or directory"

Generating: .build/obj_xwhatsit_brand_new_model_f_f77_wcass/src/info_config.h [WARNINGS]
|
| ☒ xwhatsit/brand_new_model_f/f77/wcass: NO_ACTION_MACRO in config.h is no longer a valid option
| ☒ xwhatsit/brand_new_model_f/f77/wcass: NO_ACTION_FUNCTION in config.h is no longer a valid option
| ☒ xwhatsit/brand_new_model_f/f77/wcass: DESCRIPTION in config.h is no longer a valid option
|
Generating: .build/obj_xwhatsit_brand_new_model_f_f77_wcass/src/default_keyboard.c [WARNINGS]
|
| ☒ xwhatsit/brand_new_model_f/f77/wcass: NO_ACTION_MACRO in config.h is no longer a valid option
| ☒ xwhatsit/brand_new_model_f/f77/wcass: NO_ACTION_FUNCTION in config.h is no longer a valid option
| ☒ xwhatsit/brand_new_model_f/f77/wcass: DESCRIPTION in config.h is no longer a valid option
|
Generating: .build/obj_xwhatsit_brand_new_model_f_f77_wcass/src/default_keyboard.h [WARNINGS]
|
| ☒ xwhatsit/brand_new_model_f/f77/wcass: NO_ACTION_MACRO in config.h is no longer a valid option
| ☒ xwhatsit/brand_new_model_f/f77/wcass: NO_ACTION_FUNCTION in config.h is no longer a valid option
| ☒ xwhatsit/brand_new_model_f/f77/wcass: DESCRIPTION in config.h is no longer a valid option
|
Generating: .build/obj_xwhatsit_brand_new_model_f_f77_wcass/src/layouts.h [WARNINGS]
|
| ☒ xwhatsit/brand_new_model_f/f77/wcass: NO_ACTION_MACRO in config.h is no longer a valid option
| ☒ xwhatsit/brand_new_model_f/f77/wcass: NO_ACTION_FUNCTION in config.h is no longer a valid option
| ☒ xwhatsit/brand_new_model_f/f77/wcass: DESCRIPTION in config.h is no longer a valid option
|
Compiling: keyboards/xwhatsit/matrix.c [OK]
Compiling: keyboards/xwhatsit/util_comm.c keyboards/xwhatsit/util_comm.c:22:36: fatal error: tmk_core/common/eeprom.h: No such file or directory
compilation terminated.
[ERRORS]

[mode1ace]

mode1ace please send me another email as I don't have your user name in the order database. Some of my email replies (and shipping confirmation emails!) are ending up in junk folders.

I've sent another, I put my DT username in the email, iirc when I bought it I put my geekhack username "mode" which was taken on DT, so I had to use my old IRC alt mode1ace.

[BuGless]

As part of the QMK testing I have started with the latest qmk and am seeing the following compilation errors - any ideas? I wonder what the correct options are for the 3 items listed below and what to do with "eeprom.h: No such file or directory"

I think yesterday BuccoBruce2 posted an elaborate description of what he did to overcome exactly those errors.

[Ellipse]

Thanks BuGless and BuccoBruce2 - that worked! I have updated the manual accordingly.

BuccoBruce2 are there any special steps needed with the Windows program you described? A step by step guide from scratch would be helpful for those who do not want to install the Ubuntu VM, for those with no familiarity with the Windows program MSYS2, including getting QMK and all the dependencies (?).

[Ellipse]

An odd firmware issue:

In my testing the 4 rows connected to RP3 are all white at threshold 80 no matter if shorted or not, while RP4's rows behave normally (shorting a row 5-8 turns the row from gray to white in the ibm capsense utility.

Here's pandrew's note: "For the original xwhatsit, I think it should be possible to update to support the leds, and solenoid in conjunction. It will need changes to: firmware, communication protocol, and ibm capsense utility, to add a new supported expansion port configuration."

Everything seems to be perfect with pandrew's own QMK update for the beamspring boards (known as rev2 on the QMK beta site - connecting a column to a row correctly produces a threshold change with the associated key) so I probably adjusted things wrong in the original xwhatsit firmware - any ideas?

Here's what I did:
new 33 pin controller: caps is pin 18 PB4, pin 19 PB5 is Num, and pin 17 PB3 is Scr (pin 17 was previously unused). The purpose of this change is to allow the solenoid to run at the same time as 3 LED lock lights - the current xwhatsit controller is limited to 2 LEDs while a solenoid was attached.

old: caps pin 20, num 19 (the same), scr is 18

in the file named exp.c change the PB numbers to the ones shown below:

setLockLEDs(void)
{
if (kbdLEDs & HID_KEYBOARD_LED_NUMLOCK)
PORTB |= (1 << PB5);
else
PORTB &= ~(1 << PB5);

if (kbdLEDs & HID_KEYBOARD_LED_CAPSLOCK)
PORTB |= (1 << PB4);
else
PORTB &= ~(1 << PB4);

if (kbdLEDs & HID_KEYBOARD_LED_SCROLLLOCK)
PORTB |= (1 << PB3);
else
PORTB &= ~(1 << PB3);
}

The instructions I followed in Ubuntu:
In a terminal, run: sudo apt update && sudo apt install make gcc gcc-avr avrdude avr-libc build-essential

Move the patch files into the src directory

In the terminal cd into the src directory

Run patch files in order from oldest to newest (start with debounce patch, then patch 1, then patch 2, then patch 3 (the latter three patches from pandrew).
patch < xwhatsit_model_f_firmware_update_0.9.1.patch
patch < patch1.patch
patch < patch2.patch
patch < patch3.patch

The default debounce is 11. To create the debounce 6 version, edit the scan.h file and change the line with #define SCAN_DB_THRESH_TOP 11 - change to a 6 (I use the debounce 6 version when sending out the Brand New Model F keyboards). ONLY change this as well as the version number after running the above patch files

In the file Makefile, change version to 0.9.3v2

Run make and copy the ibm_capsense_usb.hex file that was created

[Guppy]

Today I was finally able to pick up a very special package that I've been anticipating.

I was planning on doing a step-by-step picture assembly of the whole thing to try out some different layouts, but I stuck with the one I had envisioned when I bought it, and have been using it ever since. Only disconnecting it to move it over to my bench and take this grainy bigfoot-esque picture of it on my dated phone under the 50's desklamp I used to assemble it.



I first thought the poor quality would make it not worth posting, but this picture has grown on me the more I look at it. In a way, this kind of amber look from the incandescent lighting is exactly how I remember the first keyboards I learned to type on appearing in my memory. All in all, the keyboard has turned out perfect.
Yes, that is the custom silver case appearing gray thanks to the washed out lighting. I'll take better pictures of it some other time when I can get my better camera.

I'm really impressed that the defaults actually allowed it to work out-of-the-box with no trip to QMK needed as of yet. Only gripe is my short sighted nature regarding the left shift. I didn't order the correct left shift key for the split left shift. Not sure if that space would be 1.25U or some other size, but a blank pebble key works there until I can find that out.

[depletedvespene]

For several years, my HHKB here really was my only keyboard. Once I put in Hasu's Bluetooth controller in 2016 or so, I stayed on that board on all my computers, including the iPad Pro I was using for most of my work. No software options at all on iPad, so I was thankful for TMK and did everything in that. Getting so much time on the same keyboard really opened my eyes to just how powerful consistency is in modification. When you can rely on something always being there, you use it hard and good. There's no easier way to be consistent than with just one keyboard, doing those mods itself!

Indeed. On my keyboards, the physical layouts are, from smaller to larger: (75%, but we don't talk about it), F77, TKL (proper bottom row), TKL (modern bottom row), full-size (proper bottom row), F107 and battleship — one of the driving directives in my logical layout design is to make as little modifications among any and all of them... which is why I am so glad that placing Esc on the home row has worked so well, as the corner alpha/Esc key clash is was the biggest problem I had to deal with.

[Heisenberg122]

Heisenberg122 as noted in the manual that specific issue is probably fixed by tightening the 2 controller ground screws and perhaps adjusting or replacing the spring of the space bar.

Ellipse, thanks for the answer.

I did the following tunings without testing them one by one. So I don't know which one corrected the lag problem but now it seems that the problem disappeared. I can type on the keyboard without timing mistakes;

First, I removed the spacebar and loosened the metal tabs a bit as advised in the manual. Now it a way rattles.

One of the Method of SpaceBarLag Corrections

SpaceBarLag.png (137.6 KiB) Viewed 19633 times

Second, I removed the spring and replaced it with a new one from the first aid kit. And I tried my best to put it inside the barrel exactly as described in the videos.

Third, I replaced the complete space bar set with the stabilizer metal wire from the second spare key set


Now, the spacebar registers perfectly without any lag. So, I don't know which one of the tuning steps above worked, but it's O.K. now except for the rattling of the spacebar which doesn't matter to me.

[Ellipse]

Mini-meetup in NYC - September or October?

I have been generously invited to speak about the project at the NYC office of a well-known tech firm. I'd like to schedule it for a Wednesday in September or October, after I've caught up with the backlog, which I expect to go through during the rest of this month and part of next month.

Their meetup is just for company employees; I was thinking of a mini-meetup open to the public on the same day in the late afternoon.

Is anyone willing to host a mini-meetup in Manhattan that would be open to the public? The space would need tables to show off any keyboards that folks bring there.

[doureios]

Please forgive my noobness, this is my first post at Deskthority. I am yet another lurker who found Ellipse's website last year as I was googling around to find anyone that might have converted the Model M SSK to use F-style circuitry. I thought it would be pretty cool if the M case could be cast in iron and M's "Membrane" converted to a circuit board with F's "Flux Capacitors." That's what the "F" stands for, right? Just kidding. Maybe the "F" stands for "Farad?"

Boy, was I in for a treat when I discovered the treasures at modelfkeyboards.com last year. Who knew that IBM had ever made these smaller F keyboards? I had seen the gigantic F122 in person before, but I had never heard of the F62 "Kishsaver" or the F77. It took several days to read all of the content on the website, to say nothing about the hundreds of pages of this thread, which I confess I still have not scoured completely.

I ordered two F77s last year. Now that Ellipse is getting to the latter end of his order backlog, my keyboards finally arrived, including every last one of my special keys! Hooray! I am typing this post on the Industrial Gray one in the rear:

doureios-f77s.jpg (2.83 MiB) Viewed 19465 times

Impressions

As I touch, feel, and type on these keyboards, the experience is pretty intense. I felt whisked away to 40 years ago in my mind, a lot like how Pixar showed it happen to Anton Ego as he tastes Ratatouille, except I'm taken back into the era of technology of the TVA in Loki. You know, the time back when all kitchen appliance cases were die-cast and plastic was still a novelty.

These keyboards seem to have even better build quality than I had imagined they would. I love the Zinc-3 alloy case. The powdercoat is immaculate. I like how it is naturally cool to the touch instead of warm plastic. l like how it is so heavy that it won't budge if I bump it. The keys themselves look and feel perfectly genuine. And of course, I like how they feel and sound. As the springs buckle and the flipper flaps down in microseconds, I'm sure the solid zinc case contributes to that pleasurable solid "clink" sound, versus the cheap plasticky Model-M "clack." I can't say that I have ever typed on anything that feels this solid.

Firmware and Layout

I tried VIA at first. I was amazed at how easy VIA was to configure on-the-fly. It's nice to see how easy firmware and layout management have become! The problem is, I wanted to add barrels and flippers where there are usually none, and apparently, the current VIA QMK firmware pretty immutably sets the empty pads as KC_NO turning them off completely. Thankfully, I didn't have to look too far back in this thread to find the answer to that one.

So I fell back to just using the nice unnamed QMK Configurator at http://35.164.28.200:5000/. That tool is quite easy to use, too. You don't need any programming skills. I was fully expecting to have to git clone, apply pandrew patches and edit text files for my layout, but all I had to do was open a browser, drag-and-drop keys around, and click compile. The only thing easier is VIA because you can live-edit.

Here's my first stab at my custom layout.

layer-0.png (39.48 KiB) Viewed 19465 times

layer-1.png (45.64 KiB) Viewed 19465 times

layer-2.png (42.6 KiB) Viewed 19465 times

layer-3.png (44.7 KiB) Viewed 19465 times

When I ordered, I picked the split-right-shift HHKB layout with a 2U backspace, but I changed my mind after they arrived because it seems worth it to split the backspace and have an Fn-less tilde-backtick available. I left the Fn-backtick under Escape for the brain farts. It's also so worth it to split the spacebar to get the other bottom-row key, which I can use for a compose key (I haven't decided between using an "Alt Gr" key or a dedicated "Compose" key yet). Finally, I noticed that when my left pinky wants to shift, it invariably shoves itself straight down where the ISO "|\" key is, so why not try splitting the left shift to have a second Fn key on that side too?

I'm trying to mitigate the lack of the F-row by having both left and right split-shift, to keep two Fn keys within pinky reach, and so I can hit any F-keys one-handed, or to hit right-side Fn keys two-handed if I want to. Reaching for the left F keys with Fn on the right sucks when your right hand is on the mouse. I can also one-hand all media controls, without reaching with either hand. I'm messing with mapping F20 to mute the microphone since that seems to actually be a thing. I also prefer to have vi-style arrow keys instead of the HHKB style. The F77 right navigation block is just for convenience and I plan to make the same main layout work on an F62 that I have sitting here that is waiting for the parts to make the same split-left-shift and split-space modifications.

It's so nice to be able to change your mind about practically anything. The ability to customize a classic keyboard like this is what makes this project so awesome. I'm sure I'll keep tweaking the layout for months to come.

Umbrella Project?

I was looking at what things were named in lsusb in Linux:

Code: Select all

Bus 001 Device 007: ID 0481:0002 Zenith Data Systems modelfkeyboards.com Brand New F62/F77 Model F Keyboard by Model F Labs
...
  iManufacturer           1 Tom Wong-Cornall/Ellipse/wcass/Purdea Andrei
  iProduct                2 modelfkeyboards.com Brand New F62/F77 Model F Keyboard by Model F Labs

I noticed that the Manufacturer field lists several of the major contributors personally, either by real name or handle. Don't get me wrong, all of these people deeply deserve credit for their work. I wonder if it might be time to come up with a name for an umbrella project that orchestrates and unifies the contributions of not only these very creative people on that list but also the countless others who have selflessly contributed.

What do you think? Does the larger effort deserve to be called something? If we had a catchy project name, we could use it to name the Manufacturer and to name the compiler at 35.164.28.200, and it might even draw more people to this effort.

Either way, a rose by any other name would smell as sweet. I'm quite happy to be typing on this awesome replica model F right now, thanks to the hard work of everyone here!

[ryvnf]

I was looking at what things were named in lsusb in Linux:

Code: Select all

Bus 001 Device 007: ID 0481:0002 Zenith Data Systems modelfkeyboards.com Brand New F62/F77 Model F Keyboard by Model F Labs
...
  iManufacturer           1 Tom Wong-Cornall/Ellipse/wcass/Purdea Andrei
  iProduct                2 modelfkeyboards.com Brand New F62/F77 Model F Keyboard by Model F Labs

I noticed that the Manufacturer field lists several of the major contributors personally, either by real name or handle. Don't get me wrong, all of these people deeply deserve credit for their work. I wonder if it might be time to come up with a name for an umbrella project that orchestrates and unifies the contributions of not only these very creative people on that list but also the countless others who have selflessly contributed.

Since this is brought up for discussion, I also find the output a bit weird. This is obviously very pedantic territory and I assume it doesn't impact the keyboards practical usage at all.

When I run lsusb on my HHKB keyboard I get the following output:

Code: Select all

  bLength                18
  bDescriptorType         1
  bcdUSB               1.10
  bDeviceClass            0 
  bDeviceSubClass         0 
  bDeviceProtocol         0 
  bMaxPacketSize0         8
  idVendor           0x0853 Topre Corporation
  idProduct          0x0100 HHKB Professional
  bcdDevice            1.02
  iManufacturer           1 
  iProduct                2 
  iSerial                 0 
  bNumConfigurations      1
  Configuration Descriptor:
    [...]

It appears like the iProduct and iManufacturer are supposed to just be integer ids. That is also the case for all other devices I have connected. idVendor and idProduct are the actual names (prefixed with some hexadecimal number).

I also think the product name "modelfkeyboards.com Brand New F62/F77 Model F Keyboard by Model F Labs" is quite long and a bit weird. I think its quite superfluous to include the URL for the project and I would rather see that removed. I also do not think it should say "Brand New" since that will not be true 5 or 10 years from now. There is probably some standard for what the device descriptors should contain and I think it would be good to go through that and update the firmware to follow it.


I would personally prefer idVendor to be "Model F Labs" and idProduct be "F62/F77 Keyboard" or "F62/F77 Model F Keyboard". Maybe even say "F62 Keyboard" or "F77 Keyboard" depending on which if that isn't a big hassle. But I recognize this probably isn't of much priority right now. I will probably try to update the firmware myself to change it when my keyboard arrives. Just throwing my opinion out there for consideration.

I also think the string "Zenith Data Systems modelfkeyboards.com Brand New F62/F77 Model F Keyboard by Model F Labs" is a bit weird. Why does it say "Zenith Data Systems"? I think this string could be shortened down to something like "Model F Labs F62/F77 Keyboard". I assume this is also what operating systems use when they display the name of a connected USB device.

[Muirium]

Zenith is in there because these keyboards are illicitly using Zenith’s USB ID. You need to pay to register those with the USB association. Hobbyists like us don’t, so we just cheekily steal defunct ones like Zenith’s. If you’d like to register one yourself, you may find you need to talk to a whole industrial law firm: it won’t be easy or pleasant!

I agree there’s a lot of needless bumf in there, however. URLs? Gross! But the Zenith part is non-optional.

[thefarside]

Zenith is in there because these keyboards are illicitly using Zenith’s USB ID. You need to pay to register those with the USB association. Hobbyists like us don’t, so we just cheekily steal defunct ones like Zenith’s. If you’d like to register one yourself, you may find you need to talk to a whole industrial law firm: it won’t be easy or pleasant!

I agree there’s a lot of needless bumf in there, however. URLs? Gross! But the Zenith part is non-optional.

I looked into this out of curiosity and it’s crazy expensive to get a USB ID! Anywhere between $3500-6000

https://www.usb.org/getting-vendor-id

[Muirium]

I honestly expected worse.

The licensing fee is US$3,500 for a two year term

Just a Beamer every two years? Ellipse can spare that.

If your company does not already have a Vendor ID number, your company must execute and return the Vendor ID form along with your USB-IF Trademark License Agreement. The Vendor ID is US$6,000. Please keep in mind that becoming a USB-IF Logo Licensee alone does not entitle your company to USB-IF membership benefits.

Mentioning USB when describing your USB keyboard costs more. Love these lawyers!

[PRIPARA_PLAYER]

My F77 came in this week after a 4 year wait, got my keys in place and running my own qmk build with some c code. Definitely wonderful to type on and compiling qmk while porting tmk code was a breeze.
Only unfortunate thing is the blank pearl/pebble set didn't come with any 1.25 keys, so I'll need to pick up a couple of those.

IMG_20220709_235403.jpg (2.01 MiB) Viewed 19295 times

[sedevidi]

IMG_20220709_235403.jpg

Weird color. Weird layout. Weird TMK. Or is it the contrary?

Would you elaborate on these?

[PRIPARA_PLAYER]

IMG_20220709_235403.jpg

Weird color. Weird layout. Weird TMK. Or is it the contrary?

Would you elaborate on these?

For the colour, it's pearl/pebble dyed using fabric dye. About 10 minutes for a batch of 5/6 keys does it for IBM keys, and I'm glad it works perfectly for Ellipse's new keys. I started with the lightest colour for letters and gradually darkened the colour for numbers, symbols, and so on, to get a gradient effect.

For the layout, it's a custom layout I made years ago based on MTGAP, optimised for a JIS keyboard and trained on both English and Japanese data sets since I type in both languages daily. Most layouts are only optimised for English, hence wanting my own thing to optimise for two languages.
My main layout should be like this:

keyboard-layout (3).png (48.03 KiB) Viewed 18286 times

I don't expect this layout to be useful for anyone other than me, but I really like it.

For the tmk code, the main thing I have going is that the left windows key acts as windows when pressed, but can act as either shift or windows modifier depending on what key is pressed alongside it. Cuts out an unnecessary key for me. It might be possible to do something similar with layers or whatnot, but I'm more comfortable with C.

[orAaron]

Finally took a picture of my atypical F77 and thought I'd share. I couldn't be happier.

[Zcool31]

Greetings! I have a few silly questions:

1. Where can I download the signal level monitor? This program:

qmk6.png (30.82 KiB) Viewed 19019 times

2. Where can I find the source files for the version of QMK generated by the online configurator?

http://35.164.28.200:5000

This looks like a fork of the regular online configurator that compiles a fork of qmk_firmware. Is there a repository that hosts the fork?

3. This is more of a story than a question.

As I was installing the keycaps, one spring would not buckle. No amount of reseating the key made any difference. So I tried to reseat the spring itself. I pulled it out, but then no amount of fiddling could get it back on. I tried tweezers, I tried toothpicks, nothing!

What I should have done is to take off all the keycaps, take apart the keyboard, slide the backplate off, then take out the flipper and attach the spring. What I actually did is leave the keycaps on, slide the backplate off, reattach the spring, then realize that there's no way I can reassemble it with all the flippers in the right position.So I squeezed the back plate to the barrel plate, flipped the sandwich over, pulled off all the other keycaps, flip it over again, shift all the flippers back into place, slide the back plate into position, then reassemble the keyboard.

At least that pesky spring buckles now.

4. Are there heavier springs available? I spent the last few years typing on Kailh Box Navy switches. 90g of force before actuation. So little resistance on this F77 I can barely feel it.

[daedalus]

Received the second half of my order today, including the compact F62 case... it looks great!

IMG_1023.jpeg (1.14 MiB) Viewed 19005 times

[Kugelkopf]

Starting at page 252 of this thread, I've put together three questions:

• Is it possible to make startup options accessible on all OS X systems?
  
  Unfortunately, there is a 100% failure rate with our main Mac, that requires a workaround to be able to choose among different systems upon startup. This workaround prohibits to enter recovery mode, single user mode etc., however. It remains unclear, if this is a peculiar behaviour or our specific machine (and our G4, too) and also, if it is a timing issue, which could at least explain different results depending on a particular computer's startup speed.

• Is it possible to reestablish QMK's bootloader combination "LShift" + "b" + "RShift" in Vial?
  
  The combo feature did work, but always caused a MCU reset without entering bootloader modus, while the designated "Reset" key on layer 2 did the trick.

• Was NathanA's Vial firmware for the Model F compiled with setting

  Code: Select all

  VIAL_INSECURE = yes

  ?
  
  I'm not overly enchanted by the possibility, that a process running without administrator privileges can change the keyboard's layout without any explicit manual interaction needed.

Hence I decided to drop Vial for the time being and compile a custom QMK layout including tap dances. Thanks to the post of fellow forum member "BuccoBruce2" installation and setup of a local QMK environment suitable for Ellipse's Model F went largely without problems (Catalina) and the layout developed under Vial could soon be reconstructed under QMK. (I must admit, though, that I've used the QMK webconfigurator to design everything except for functions not available there, like tap dances, downloaded the layout's JSON representation and just added the few missing crumbs before compiling the completed firmware.) Compiling finished way faster than in the webconfigurator, although I missed the potatoe animation.

Now "LShift" + "b" + "RShift" does enter bootloader once again, and I'm not aware of a way to edit the keyboard controller memory without an explicit user intervention at the hardware level. So questions two and three have lost their significance and with the source code at hand I might even test one day, if the missing responsiveness to keypresses during startup will persist, when the Model F's QMK initialisation routines are "shortened". (Which would surely degrade the keyboard's performance, but could prove, whether the idea of timing issues is justified at all.)

So for now, I'm quite happy with the state of affairs. Thanks to all, that have made this possible!

(I'll thank all future contributors, who might still come up with an answer to one of the above questions, too, of course.)

[Ellipse]

Thanks to all of those sharing photos of their setups recently! Looking nice! It's good to see the custom keys on keyboards now that they have finally arrived in the past few months.

As an update we are about 4-8 weeks away from me mailing out the remaining Model F keyboards in the backlog! A little over 500 keyboards plus many non-keyboard orders. 3360 keyboards have shipped so far.

Over on the beam spring project thread I added photos of the first prototype parts of the next round.

[CoolPenguin1]

I don't know how many more keycap sets are planned on being made but I have a few suggestions for future ones.
For the czech layout planned I was wondering if it maybe done the way IBM did it with front prints. Right now I don't think there are any sets with front prints on the alphas so I think doing it the way IBM did would be pretty cool.

ibm-300-gl-127670508-1.jpeg (194.38 KiB) Viewed 18720 times

Now that there are multi colored sets I was wondering if it'd be possible to do a Taiwanese set, I'm not really sure if IBM ever did one for Buckling Spring boards but they look really cool.

main-qimg-f70d05c46edc60e71663e9867f9600af.jpg (161.52 KiB) Viewed 18720 times

And finally I was wondering if it'd be possible to have a set with darker colored sublegends of some sort. Imo darker colors work better with colors like Industrial Gray, Silver Gray, and Black and right now I'm pretty sure the only option for dark sublegend colors is black but I'd love to see a set with dark green, dark blue or dark red sublegends at some point. In particular I think a set with dark green sublegends in the same vain as CRP Green Hebrew would look amazing on Industrial Gray.

n_-ANSI-EN-Hebrew-u_fb712f0b-7172-4368-94f2-f426135f98bb_1296x.png (244.61 KiB) Viewed 18720 times

[CoolPenguin1]

Oh yeah and I'm surprised I forgot about this but another really cool set would be IBM's airline reservation keycaps.
https://www.clickykeyboards.com/product ... ong-cable/

DSC01548.png (4.13 MiB) Viewed 18676 times

[Ellipse]

I'm open to additional super low volume sets as long as someone volunteers to design the unique/additional legends for the particular set - including front print only sets with all the legends front printed, as well as the other sets noted. Other folks would have to help by designing the sets' additional legends (I can send the template file to you if anyone is willing to help). Please note that any sets involving front printing will cost more as that process is trickier for the factory to get right.

Zed has been so incredibly helpful with making sure the keys are up to IBM's design and alignment standards that I am wary of making too many more additional requests especially for the ultra low volume requests, so someone would have to help with these.

The factory can even do green, red, and blue for the sublimation text/graphics and multiple colors can be printed at the same time and on the same keycap. If anyone wants one-off sets in various colors it is possible, though some sublimation colors come out better than others and you'd have to make them to find out. So far green, blue, and red have come out nicely.

[mrprofessor]

What are the color codes for powdercoated industrial and beige cases?

[Bjerrk]

What are the color codes for powdercoated industrial and beige cases?

Do you mean before or after it has been used for a few days?

powderuncoating.jpg (130.14 KiB) Viewed 18455 times

(It has almost attained a vintage look, like stone-washed jeans )

[Muirium]

Days!? The OGs hold up better over decades…

[Bjerrk]

Days!? The OGs hold up better over decades…

I agree! My 1983 F XT and 1977-ish beamer have fewer scuffs