Numpad layouts

[matt3o]

and here it is, fresh from the press!



I'm not a numpad guy, but I like this thing

[Mr.Nobody]

To improve modern keyboard's layout we also need to replace Scroll Lock key and Pause key

A little bit off-topic though

[Phenix]

nice, does it is handwired+working and programmable?

[Ray]

Firmware came packaged on the floppy it seams

[matt3o]

nice, does it is handwired+working and programmable?

yes, hand-wired and fully programmable it's the first "keyboard" I designed for the ELF board

[Phenix]

Thats so nice..
Now just mirror the right-most column to the left (not inspired by the numpad thread )

when will it be possible to buy one (assembled or kit or parts, this is what Im looking for

[matt3o]

well, this is mostly a toy project, but I can release the 3d model and put in on shapeways if someone wants to do some hand wiring.

[Scary Guy]

Sorry to necro this, but I'm working on mine and was just wondering about your thoughts on the matter (if any of y'all are still around.)

I'm running on a Moonlander and decided to dedicate a layer to the function keys (all 24 of them) and the number pad.

It's a bit shifted though, mostly to match up with some keys on the main layer for consistency.

[Muirium]

I’d make numpad 0 bigger, to match its standard size, but other than that you’ve a sensible looking layout. Put a homing bump on the 5.

[Scary Guy]

That's why 5 is where it's at, as it's over the J key. Though I think I'm going to try Workman so I swapped out the keys for the bumpless ones.

Also I can't really make it larger since it's already printed.

[davkol]

Meh.

I like the way Kinesis embedded the numpad in default Advantage firmware, although I don't think the standard numpad has the ideal number layout… About that, I highly recommend people check out for example the paper Human factors engineering studies of the design and use of pushbutton telephone sets and a related discussion at GH.

If you really want to have navigation keys there too, I'd put them in vertical columns on the side.

(images copied from the Kinesis Advantage 2 manual)

[Scary Guy]

The navigation keys exist as they do because of games. Here's the layout if anyone wants to check it out: https://configure.zsa.io/moonlander/layouts/Y5MWP (the name comes from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0ACvNSis7k which I saw flipping channels and thought it was funny, because it reminded me of that scene from Cube Zero https://youtu.be/kuGXl6Q5aYs?t=73 (worst cube movie of all BTW but the ending was great... because it ended.))

I am familiar with the dialpad experiments and some of those were neat. I even toyed with the idea of moving some of the keys for a 4x4x2 layout (so 6789 would line up on both layers), but then remembered back to those and chose not to. Also it would have broken the nav-cluster. I also thought about changing the first/third row of the numberpad to make it more like the pads on a phone/television remote rather than a calculator, but figured I should just leave it as is to keep it consistent with other numberpads.

I may end up moving the numberpad up with the symbols moved down and lining up the 789 keys over the regular 789 on the first layer, though I'd have to split up the classic 3x3 cluster, but I really only kept around for sentimental reasons anyway. I could just move that left of it if I really wanted to. Also then it wouldn't be over where the J key is, but I removed the bump anyway so it would probably make more sense to put it where the K is instead anyway. Yeah I think I'll try that and then maybe shift it up.

[Rami]

I really like the way Zenith's old numpads look. They have these fat 0 and . keys at the bottom which I personally find very useful.

20220826_035650.jpg (2.53 MiB) Viewed 2420 times

[depletedvespene]

I really like the way Zenith's old numpads look. They have these fat 0 and . keys at the bottom which I personally find very useful.
20220826_035650.jpg

The arrangement of the keys 0 and . like this, as seen here (and present in some old terminal keyboards, too), is something that should definitely make a comeback, as it would make it easier to handle numpads on either side of the main keyboard — that's why I incorporated this particular feature in my proposal at viewtopic.php?f=2&t=27510.

[The Laptop Lagger]

I have no huge opinions on the Numpad, however I do believe that TKLs are doing it wrong! I much prefer a Navless layout with the numpad taking both the duty of the numpad and the Nav cluster rather than the numpad being removed in favour of the nav cluster! Imagine the XT layout but modernised and you've basically got what I'm talking about.

It seems like an obvious choice to me, the numpad can do all that the nav cluster can, whilst vice versa is absolutely not the case.
I think that an extra down arrow on 5 would be a smart addition in this plan but not a necessity for me.
I'm all for smaller keyboard but I think we assign too much value to the nav cluster.


P.S. screw those TKL keyboards with a "numpad" on the JKL and surrounding keys, it never works just give up.

Edit, just now realised that this is a hella necro post! Apologies.

[Scary Guy]

It's working just fine on my Moonlander, but it uses layers. I will say that this is the only way that it works though.

I have a Mistel Freeboard too, but I stopped using it.

Also, if those in charge didn't want us "necroposting" they would lock the thread after a reasonable amount of time. I don't think good discussions should die just because they are old. In this case I wanted to build on the previous discussion and experience.

[Muirium]

Correct!

The only “necros” I’m against are when people show up and ask 2014 if their keyboard is still for sale. Sure, sure it is.

Actual engagement with the spirit of the topic is never out of style.