Beam Spring 104+SSK Reproduction Project! First Batch In Stock, Shipping early next year after New Model F Project

[Admiral]

As noted before, the beam spring project is designed to reproduce the performance and functionality (weighting, travel distance, module specifications) of the originals but with some updates (shortened the two plastic parts of the beam module without altering the travel distance); the sound is not going to be similar to the originals for the first production run because of the design changes (no added foam above the modules, no rubber below, no thick case, etc.). The modules themselves sound close in my opinion but the goal of the project is not an exact sound reproduction.

Here's a sound comparison of an original module and a new module - this is just one module of each so it will likely not represent what each module will sound like, and it especially does not represent what the installed keyboard sounds like (more test videos with the full keyboard will be made later).

Nope there will be no plastic cases. I'm hoping the beam modules will be interchangeable but I have not yet received the new beam case sample to confirm this. All the cases will be powdercoated aluminum or steel (sorry no more extra heavy zinc!).

Thanks for that didn't expect your response to be this quick! These sound great to me; it's a nice teaser for when the boards are ready.

And thanks for confirming what the cases may be made of.

Can't wait to get my hands on them

[Ellipse]

The new beam spring sample keyboard arrived and I started evaluating it today. It is way too heavy, at 13.55 lbs! The sample case was made of extra thick welded steel - the production cases will of course be more sensibly normal thickness material (steel or aluminum). I don't want to add $50 in increased shipping costs to an already costly keyboard!

[darkcruix]

The new beam spring sample keyboard arrived and I started evaluating it today. It is way too heavy, at 13.55 lbs! The sample case was made of extra thick welded steel - the production cases will of course be more sensibly normal thickness material (steel or aluminum). I don't want to add $50 in increased shipping costs to an already costly keyboard!

As usual - if you can, please pass on some photos. I know it is the sample and different to the final look, but I am curious.

[Ellipse]

Here are the photos. They mailed the sample that was produced in July. viewtopic.php?p=505612#p505612

[darkcruix]

Here are the photos. They mailed the sample that was produced in July. viewtopic.php?p=505612#p505612

Yeah, now I remember. Thanks !

[ryanj]

I completely forgot about here, until I stumbled across the Model F again and thought "I so much want, if it was only TKL"

I'll actually have to disagree there! Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I actually think that a sturdy plastic chassis, such as the Model M or Model F XT has (top part at least) is much preferable. Much better sound - much deeper and more pleasant. And certainly nicer to the touch - neutral instead of cold (heat-conductive).

I own a New Model F77 (metal) as well as the plastic-framed, lightweight Model F that came with the 5155 portable PC. The 5155 Model F has a much nicer sound and can be used on your lap without feeling cold or overly heavy. A plastic Model F is a great keyboard, as it turns out.

And on top of that, something like the PVC case of a Model M is sturdy as hell. A little bit of flexibility is a strength, not a weakness

Just my opinion again, plastic would not be a deal breaker for me like layout is (I did buy the Mini M didn't I?). There are lots of plastics that do look premium, but in the case of the Mini M that plastic is simply cheap, feels bad, and looks bad. I'm sure it could have been done better (as I feel some of the $20 Amazon keyboards were molded better), but at that price point, I'm not really complaining. It's about the keys after all, which are excellent.

Though I disagree with your 2nd part, I love how metal is cool to the touch and I definitely prefer it. It gives things this "industrial" look and feel that I just like so much more.

Excited to see this coming along! (don't forget ISO support, though) Also, I can't wait to hear this with the solenoid on.


With that said, I'll be that guy and mention that this posterior section:


brototype.jpg


Strikes me as gratuituous, and would drive up the cost/price (plus footprint) for no real good reason. I understand the desire to evoke the beamsprings of yore, but a functional case would be better, and the desired looks would be better evoked with the proper case color (something I have no doubt Ellipse can pull off, as we've seen with the Model F repros) and a good choice of MT3 keycaps. IMNAAHO.

I somewhat agree here. I do like the overall shape/design and I do like the "ledge" on some of the older boards (I do sometimes put things there), but this does look a little excessive IMO. I feel like maybe reducing it to half of it's current depth would be "best". To me the biggest concern here would be "footprint" - I understand that none of these boards are exactly "compact" (or should be), but I think reality is simply the larger the dimensions the less places/setups it will fit nicely into. It just feels like "a bit more than is needed" to me. Even in my setup, that might force me to push my monitor back a little more than I'm used to (not that that is a big deal).

Nope there will be no plastic cases. I'm hoping the beam modules will be interchangeable but I have not yet received the new beam case sample to confirm this. All the cases will be powdercoated aluminum or steel (sorry no more extra heavy zinc!).

Steel please

Actually I have no idea what either would do to the sound of the thing which is probably an important consideration. I just know from working on a lot of large metal pro audio thing(s) that aluminum always has to be much thicker while still flexing a lot more and just doesn't sound/feel as nice overall, but I guess a keyboard is a little different from an enclosure. Just my opinion though! I'd be happy with either.

Overall I like the way things are coming along!

[Ellipse]

As a follow up to the below quote, here is the planned 122 key arrangement. I feel this is a good enough compromise between the additional keys available with the original terminal style keyboards and the newer Model M type layouts. However without an expansion of the controller beyond the 16x8 matrix we can't have any additional keys such as split backspace or split right shift.

122 proposed layout.png (50.3 KiB) Viewed 7796 times

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/# ... eeecd851d9

Of course they cannot be populated with the beam 122-style keyboards which will likely have 128 keys already used (104 keys for standard ANSI + 2 additional for ISO short shift < > and ~ # key to the left of ISO enter + 12 F13-F24 keys + 10 keys for the left side block), as 128 is the maximum allowed on a 16x8 matrix. I am open to someone submitting an updated controller design to allow for an additional optional column - maybe Rico's new RP2040-based controller will allow for this - though it might be tricky with maintaining backwards compatibility (maybe a solder pad to switch it from being an extra column to being a ground column?). Compromises will possibly be needed for those wanting to order custom layout 122-style beam spring keyboards, especially if they want additional keys like splitting the backspace, etc.

[depletedvespene]

Not even split numpad+? BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.

Also, ISO. Can't forget ISO.

[Ellipse]

ISO is included, just not pictured. I would like to offer splittable additional keys if a new controller can handle it but we are at the limit of the xwhatsit controller's 128 keys.

[Johnbo]

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/# ... eeecd851d9

Given the matrix restrictions I think it's great!

BTW, how's the Model F backlog coming (Or: what's the latest expectation on when the first round of these boards are going to ship out?)

[Ellipse]

Thanks to photos of IBM beam spring case measurements provided by Chyros I have completed two case styles - please see the renderings below. One style is the 3278 style and the other is a combination of the styles of the 3101, 3727, 4978, 5251, and 6580 Displaywriter - for simplicity I think it should be referred to as the non-3278 style.

Both cases are the same overall dimensions. There are two non-3278 style cases, one designed for welding and the other designed for die casting. The colors are altered in order to show the various parts more clearly - for example the cases will all be a uniform color and it will be available in the same colors and textured finish as the F style cases most likely.

I'm hoping to wrap up the Model F backlog this month.

Beam assembly - 104 3278.jpg (322.65 KiB) Viewed 7647 times

Beam assembly - 104 3278 2.jpg (358.15 KiB) Viewed 7647 times

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Beam assembly - 104 3278 5.jpg (683.7 KiB) Viewed 7647 times

Beam assembly - 104 non-3278 Style.jpg (284.52 KiB) Viewed 7647 times

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Beam assembly - 104 non-3278 Style die cast.jpg (258.32 KiB) Viewed 7647 times

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[JP!]

Non-3278 style is much better

[Johnbo]

Ohh, awesome. The non-3278 style is exactly the type of case I would imagine for this keyboard.

[thefarside]

Looks great! Stupid question: what type of overlays are being used for the lock lights? I remember this coming up previously but I couldn’t remember if the plan was to use the Unicomp current layout or the original IBM model M layout.

[Obin]

Yes, non-3278 is much, much better. I'd prefer it if it was a bit shorter though, maybe with the rear bezel not wider than the front bezel. But it's already pretty nice.

Only thing needed now is the same ISO-HHKB split-backspace layout that is possible on the New Model F and I'd instantly buy this.

Edit@Ellipse: Since this is going to be MX compatible, Is there any reason to not support all layouts with a single plate/PCB like the YMDK boards do? This would save costs and make more layout options viable. The PCB might be difficult due to the pads overlapping, but maybe this could be solved using jumpers or solder-bridges on the back of the PCB.

[digital_matthew]

Looks great! Stupid question: what type of overlays are being used for the lock lights? I remember this coming up previously but I couldn’t remember if the plan was to use the Unicomp current layout or the original IBM model M layout.

It looks like the original Model M lock light layout, which is good because Unicomp still sells those stickers.

[Ellipse]

Yep - original Model M style LED overlay that I am having produced new this year, compatible with the new beam spring keyboards and original M keyboards. There is some discussion of this earlier in the thread.

Initial feedback seems in favor of the non-3278 style - I'm hoping we meet the minimum order quantity to get the 3278 style produced (not sure yet what that number will be).

Obin there was discussion about making the keyboard permanently angled as opposed to the flat design of the round 1 beam spring. Also it makes it more in line with the original angled design. It seems like the keyboard you mentioned uses PCB mounted parts while the beam keyboards of course cannot do that by design of the beam modules. Please correct me if this is not accurate, if you can suggest a plate mount style design that allows for different keyboards with cut out circles on the top inner assembly for ANSI and ISO that will hold the modules in place. But most certainly ISO will be offered as a factory configured option.

How much interest is there in smaller layouts over the standard 104/84 style? Are folks who want HHKB those who will only want the smaller layouts?

[BuGless]

How much interest is there in smaller layouts over the standard 104/84 style? Are folks who want HHKB those who will only want the smaller layouts?

For me, in order of decreasing preference:
a. Exact layout like new Model F77, ANSI with split right shift.
b. Exact layout like new Model F77, ANSI.
c. As (a) but with Escape key and F1-F12 above.
d. As (c) but without split right shift.
e. The standard bigger ones you already offer.

[Obin]

It seems like the keyboard you mentioned uses PCB mounted parts while the beam keyboards of course cannot do that by design of the beam modules. Please correct me if this is not accurate, if you can suggest a plate mount style design that allows for different keyboards with cut out circles on the top inner assembly for ANSI and ISO that will hold the modules in place.

Yes, you are right. I did not think about how the modules would actually mechanically stay in place, just how they would actuate. I don't see any way either, at least not without changing the whole mounting. Anyway thanks for answering.

How much interest is there in smaller layouts over the standard 104/84 style? Are folks who want HHKB those who will only want the smaller layouts?

When I say (ISO) HHKB I mean mostly the split right shift and split backspace. I'll prefer a TKL, though I'd not mind if the nav-block was filled in (like on a F77). Maybe this could be as hidden keys on the PCB for people who want to modify the plate later on?

[webwit]

How much interest is there in smaller layouts over the standard 104/84 style? Are folks who want HHKB those who will only want the smaller layouts?

This layout with beam springs. Do want.

[digital_matthew]

HHKB please! Just like the one webwit posted.

[depletedvespene]

40%, 60%, 65%, 75%, 79%, TKL, 96%, Datamaster, AT, 1800, plain fullsize, EF-fullsize, EF-fullsize+supernumpad, supernumpad by itself, ortholinear, split ortholinear... the laundry list of requested layouts is gonna be huge.

Let us all patiently wait until the current Effenhanced Layout ("Enhanced layout with an EF block and an extra F row on top ") is out.




With full ISO support.

[daedalus]

Another vote for the non 3278 style case, and another vote for the same type of HHKB layout as the F62 has.

[webwit]

40%, 60%, 65%, 75%, 79%, TKL, 96%, Datamaster, AT, 1800, plain fullsize, EF-fullsize, EF-fullsize+supernumpad, supernumpad by itself, ortholinear, split ortholinear...

Blasphemy! These are all pagan religions, not the true one.

[TNT]

I mean, all the banter aside, it's actually insane that this is happening at all. Both cases look very nice. Can't wait to see one full assembly in action!

[depletedvespene]

40%, 60%, 65%, 75%, 79%, TKL, 96%, Datamaster, AT, 1800, plain fullsize, EF-fullsize, EF-fullsize+supernumpad, supernumpad by itself, ortholinear, split ortholinear...

Blasphemy! These are all pagan religions, not the true one.

Get the Effenhanced layout with the supernumpad (plus options for a split Backspace and both inner and outer split right Shift) and we'll have the One True Syncretic Religion to Rule All.

HHKB-lovers can go cry into their (unused) bottom-left corner.

[webwit]

HHKB-lovers can go cry into their (unused) bottom-left corner.

Agreed. F62 HHKB fixed that.

PS: You sound like one of those 104 atheists.

[depletedvespene]

HHKB-lovers can go cry into their (unused) bottom-left corner.

Agreed. F62 HHKB fixed that.

PS: You sound like one of those 104 atheists.

104? Don't you dare take me for an ANSIboy!

[aidanic]

Beam assembly - 104 non-3278 Style die cast.jpg
Beam assembly - 104 non-3278 Style die cast2.jpg
Beam assembly - 104 non-3278 Style die cast3.jpg
Beam assembly - 104 non-3278 Style die cast4.jpg
Beam assembly - 104 non-3278 Style die cast5.jpg

I think the non-3278 models look fantastic! When I saw your original models, I though "damn, if the top was rounded like the bottom I'd buy that in a heartbeat," and you've completely sold me. I think a pencil tray (like in your F repros) would be useful though. It would balance out the top and marry form and function perfectly. Overall though, bravo.

[MrRobot49]

The non-3278 style is slick and I would snatch it up immediately! I would also like to see the non-3278 style with the 122 key arrangement (ultimate preference).