F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[pelletik]

My enter key binds or sticks. I read the owners manual several times. The stabilizing insert is pushed all the way that it's flush to the barrel. The ears are left and right. I pulled a enter key off of a model m and installed it in my F77. The model m enter key works in my F77 and does not bind. I think I have a bad enter key. Does anyone have any suggestions to get the enter key to not bind? It's the only key that I am having an issue with.

I also had a problem with binding keys like enter and shift. What helped to reduce the binding a lot is to pull off the key. Flip the key and you will see 2 parts sticking out; one is the stabilizer pin which you can ignore. The other part that sticks out has 2 legs. Grab these 2 legs 'high' between your thumb and index finger so that the keycap is very close to your skin and give it 30/40 good squeezes and try the key on the keyboard. It could be you need a few rounds of squeezing to get rid of most of the binding.

The binding went from 'totally unacceptable' to 'barely noticeable. Only when you hit the key completely off center (furthest away from where you are normally hitting the key), I can feel binding with the shift; with the enter it is no problem at all.

This is solid advice - I note a similar method as "the wiggle method" in the manual on the project web site.

That worked! My enter key doesn't bind anymore. Thank you!

[robo]

Anyone know of a fix for a squeaky key?

My J key squeaks slightly - it's subtle but since I'm a Vim addict i'm often just quietly pressing that key as I scroll down a page.
The squeak happens in the early travel of the key, before the spring buckles. It sounds like a tiny 'ee-aw, ee-aw' as I press the key up and down.

[Muirium]

Tried swapping caps?

[Ellipse]

robo - seems like adjusting or replacing the spring would be recommended, as per the Quality Control Secrets video embedded in the manual on the project web site.

[Ellipse]

Any feedback or photos of folks using screw in bumpers on the ultra compact cases?

As an update the latest container shipment is expected to be delivered later this month. I hope to wrap up the backlog over the coming weeks.

[Nuum]

My F77 arrived yesterday!

Ellipse Model F.jpg (897.18 KiB) Viewed 15635 times

(Note that the yellowed space bar is not from Ellipse. I'm currently using one from an old Model M.)

Setup was smooth, apart from me having to hammer the top plate back in place, since it shifted during shipping. I put VIA on it and programming it that way was super easy.
In terms of key feel the springs are noticeably lighter than the ones in my AT Model F and the "switches" are more scratchy. The lighter springs might be preferable to some people, I'm currently undecided. Not sure if the scratchiness gets better over time. The springs also seem to be a bit "whiney" since they slide across the seemingly not-so-smooth barrels. You don't notice it that much during typing, though.
The quality of the keycaps seems really good, at least on par with the keycaps from my AT Model F. I also highly appreciate, that the German keyset also uses German text for the mods and nav keys. Now I'm only wishing front printed F1-F12 for the German keycaps and a blue ISO enter.

I'm planning to use this little cable to adapt it to removable mini USB, since that is what my other keyboards use: https://www.amazon.de/dp/B071L99VPQ

[Meowmaritus]

In terms of key feel the springs are noticeably lighter than the ones in my AT Model F and the "switches" are more scratchy. The lighter springs might be preferable to some people, I'm currently undecided.

Yeah on my F77 the springs are so light that the slightest press slams the keycap down so violently that I feel impact shocks in my fingers and I can't stand it after trying a vintage F122. The scratchy barrels are definitely a defect though because mine are ridiculously smooth. So smooth, in fact, that I put them in my F122 to make the keyfeel smoother. I've noticed there's a lot of manufacturing defects like my keycaps I got from Ellipse had stems so absurdly thick that no amount of compressing could make them not get stuck at the bottom of the key travel. My space bar was also very warped of course, but that's kinda to be expected.

[Ellipse]

Here are two nice photos, reposting with permission:

First up is an Ultra Compact F77 with JIS keycaps from Unicomp (the top keyboard in the photo):
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyb ... rds_ultra/

aimingsashimig reddit.jpg (1.89 MiB) Viewed 15392 times

And next up is an updated version of a keyboard posted last month with this description: "Posting with permission a nice F77 Industrial Gray photo sent to me. The UK layout customizations include HHKB style split right shift, UK front printed keys and some blue Esc and cursor keys."

updated - Copy.jpeg (1.63 MiB) Viewed 15392 times

Meowmaritus your experience is definitely not one I have seen too often, if at all, from others. I have shipped out thousands of these keyboards, including to many folks with original Model F keyboards. My guess is that your original Model F is not a typical one and that the relationship of barrel length to spring+flipper length is different from other examples (I believe this affects the actuation point). I have restored and collected dozens of Model F keyboards and am very aware that the sample to sample variation among original Model F keyboards is far greater than that of the new production Model F keyboards. If your keys were getting stuck at the bottom you should have reported to that to me when you received the keyboard, so I could investigate. The wiggle method has proven 100% effective in fixing stuck keys in my own experience, and I have not seen many issues where 1U keys are all getting stuck. All space bars are warped noticeably, even those of the original Model F keyboards. The reason is that they are made of PBT, as are the originals; PBT has a far higher uneven shrinkage rate compared to other plastics, so the larger keys will have more noticeable shrinkage.

[Kalikrates]

I have a small, but annoying problem with my F77 which otherwise is working flawlessly.

The right Ctrl key doesn't work and it doesn't seem to be hardware-related, because when I run the "pandrew QMK utility" it registers just fine, both in the keypress monitor and in the signal level monitor.

However, if I go to the QMK configurator "test keyboard" option, the keypress events don't show up at all. And of course in the OS (Windows user) it doesn't work either (otherwise I wouldn't be asking!).

It doesn't seem to be a layout issue since the QMK configurator doesn't show a keypress at all (it's not like it shows a different key) and, besides, the keyboard is otherwise working flawlessly with my Spanish layout and with every key doing exactly what I expect.

Any clue as to what it could be? I read the documentation on the site but I'm quite lost...

[sedevidi]

The right Ctrl key doesn't work and it doesn't seem to be hardware-related, because when I run the "pandrew QMK utility" it registers just fine, both in the keypress monitor and in the signal level monitor.

However, if I go to the QMK configurator "test keyboard" option, the keypress events don't show up at all. And of course in the OS (Windows user) it doesn't work either (otherwise I wouldn't be asking!).

Did you unplug-replug the keyboard? It may be that you pressed that key while it was last initializing, and the key was discarded by the calibration algo. It may show up in the QMK utility, which just show signal level, not post-processed key presses.
The same happened to me a few weeks ago. I started to type my password a bit too soon after powerup, leading to 2 keys being discarded entirely. Powering up the keyboard may be a daily event if plugged in a hub, or a yearly event...

[Ellipse]

As noted on the keyboard product page, that key is set to Fn by default so it will not register as Ctrl.

[Nuum]

[...]

I had a similar problem with the keys above the arrow keys, albeit with VIA, not QMK. They neither showed up in VIA's matrix tester, nor in the layout tester. In my case I just flashed the wrong VIA .hex-file, namely the one with the nav cluster instead of the numpad. Maybe you flashed an HHKB one? But then the left Ctrl probably also wouldn't work.

[Kalikrates]

As noted on the keyboard product page, that key is set to Fn by default so it will not register as Ctrl.

This was the issue in my case. I thought I had read all the documentation, but for some reason I had missed that. Thanks!

[Ellipse]

The fourth container shipment arrived this week. Now all variations and extras are in stock and the wait times should be 1-2 months for each order as opposed to the "made to order" nature of prior rounds.

Also, the second half of the round 1 batch with the factory repaired beam springs arrived. I will be replacing the other 150 or so keyboards' springs that arrived a while back, before the spring issue was discovered. Of course if anyone wants to skip the line and replace the springs themselves that will also be an option (I expect to post a video).

You may see that the new classic style zinc case F77s are in the smaller packaging, removing the styrofoam and saving about 40% of box volume, allowing many more keyboards to fit in the same space. The styrofoam is still present on the F62 zinc case boards from this batch, while supplies last, as they made extras of these.

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[Muirium]

I see stacks 28 boxes high. I hope those are empty, besides the cables. 27 × 3 = 81 kilos of keyboards squashing the bottom boxes, otherwise!

[Ellipse]

Each keyboard box weighs 5 to 11 pounds or so, depending on the model.

The boxes are always stacked as shown. Not to worry, this is the fourth container shipment with stacked boxes. All the boxes are double walled and good quality, though not perfectly rectangular as you can see with the stacks leaning.

Some boxes do get damaged at some point so I have lots of extras to replace them.

If the boxes were single walled they might not support the weight.

[Muirium]

Wow. Those boxes are weightlifters! Glad to hear you have spares.

[Jan Pospisil]

Months after receiving it I finally unboxed my F77, floss modded it and installed the keys.
And it works!
I am however getting characters not appearing in the right order if I type fast, sometimes.
I vaguely remember this could be fixed by updating the firmware?
(sorry, there's been so much discussion, and I don' see this mentioned in the manual. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place...)

[Zcool31]

I am however getting characters not appearing in the right order if I type fast, sometimes.
I vaguely remember this could be fixed by updating the firmware?
(sorry, there's been so much discussion, and I don' see this mentioned in the manual. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place...)

I second this. Especially noticeable is the left shift. It seems to take longer than expected to register being released. This results in the first two letters being capitalized instead of one.

[Ellipse]

Yes, as noted in the manual the fixes for keys getting stuck or out of order is updating the firmware (if it shipped before 2021 only), tightening the controller ground screws, using the wiggle method as noted in the manual, and following the QC secrets video in the manual to fix or replace the spring.

[Jan Pospisil]

Since there's multiple versions, recently I remember someone new making a custom version, is there a preferred one or most up to date?
(btw - looking at the manual, it sends you to bucklingspring.com for VIA stuff, but that website is not loading for me and seems to be gone.)
edit: Side note - is there a part of the manual that shows how to install the bumpers with a brass bolt integrated in them?

[Arkku]

Since there's multiple versions, recently I remember someone new making a custom version, is there a preferred one or most up to date?

The someone would probably be me, and obviously I prefer my own firmware, but there is no easy web configurator to build it. Or, more precisely, my completely custom firmware, AAKBD, is intended to be more for people who prefer to customise it by editing text files and then compiling it. Then I have backported my changes specific to the model F keyboards (saving of calibration and faster scanning and startup) to a custom fork of QMK.

I have pre-built the usual variants of AAKBD for the F62 and F77 keyboards here: https://github.com/arkku/aakbd/releases/tag/0.9.5

If you are comfortable with building QMK yourself, you can use web configurator of pandrew's QMK firmware, export the JSON, and compile it using my fork of the QMK firmware: https://github.com/arkku/qmk_firmware

(You can also PM me your JSON configuration file and I can build a single version from that, which is fine as long as it's not everyone or multiple updates per person. =)

You can also consider NathanA's Vial firmware if you wish to do on-the-fly configuration. Unfortunately it does not have my improvements for calibration/scanning, but one possibility is to use Vial to easily tweak your layout and then re-do the final version in either QMK or AAKBD.

[infundibulum]

I received my F77 early in September. I got about half the keycaps installed before I realized the switchplate (if that is the correct term), the plate that is secured to the case with the 4 screws, is off center so that the right-most column of keys (i.e. return, backspace; right-most side of number pad) do not have room for the keycaps to be installed.

I haven't been able to read this whole thread (I am currently in nursing school) to find out if anyone else has experienced this. I am really not sure what to do.

I have carefully moved the plate around and reassembled numerous times - there simply is not enough clearance with where the screw holes are placed.

[Ellipse]

I strongly recommend reading the manual fully before doing anything. The manual notes that you just need to loosen the 4 case screws and slide the inner assembly over, as it likely moved out of position slightly during shipping. Also check to make sure the 2 inner assembly plates are fully making contact, as shown in a photo in the manual with the circled parts in red. If not, moving the inner assembly will not fix the issue.

[Ellipse]

Here's a nice photo (posted with permission) of an F122 with custom legend keycaps:

f122.jpg (294.67 KiB) Viewed 14424 times

[Ellipse]

As requested, I am working on reorganizing the manual on the project web site so that new folks can follow it step by step when their new Model F keyboard arrives. Attached is the first draft. I am thinking it will also be made in to a (more professionally formatted!) PDF as well.

Constructive feedback on what specifically to change, add, and reword would be much appreciated - please also feel free to reply over PM or email if you'd prefer. If anyone wants to edit directly from the Word document please do use the Track Changes feature.

The goal is to make the guide suitable for a complete beginner and cover every possibility that they may encounter during the setup process or after they have been using their keyboard a while, so they do not have to look around various places for answers.

[Ellipse]

This week I purchased the giant pad printing machine for the factory to use on the pad printed black keys. This machine was not easy to find as most pad printing machines cannot print an entire key set at one time, so I believe the machine is being custom manufactured and adjusted by the factory.

I also ordered the non-stepped ISO Enter, Code key, and PC AT enter key molds, so we will be able to have pad printed black keys in international language options too.

A reminder to please sign the interest forms below if interested, if you have not done so already:

non-stepped ISO Enter, Code key, and PC AT enter keys https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1vsamkl ... 9r08Q/edit

Pad printed black keys, various languages
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1873Q9w ... 1DfNk/edit

Beam spring reproduction keyboards interest form
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1Robvxg ... yqqJk/edit

[Ellipse]

For those who have been using their new Model F keyboards for 1-2+ years at this point, I am curious about the operational maintenance needed after the first month or so as things were settling in. Keys, spring adjustment, etc. Please do share!

I know that on my original IBM F122, after a few years' usage the textured key tops showed signs of wear and one or two springs started to buzz, requiring re-seating or replacement. And an ultrasonic clean is needed every now and then for the keys - overdue for mine

[Muirium]

Well, I've had my OG Kishsaver here up and running since 2014.

Tada!


Meet the Happy Hacking Kishsaver. Symmetric, 60%, capacitative buckling spring. Now my favourite keyboard of all!

Besides for the half-stabilised space bar – which I'm still keen to fix – it's working just fantastic!

No maintenance necessary that I remember. Still haven't bothered to fix that spacebar stab as I never notice it in my typing. All I've done is try a bunch of different firmwares since and customised its layers ever deeper. Solid metal tank of a board, keeps on keeping on, can recommend.

[marcuso]

I've been using mine for a few weeks now. When I first started it would frequently miss presses of the Enter key. Recently though that's stopped and all keys now work perfectly.

Is it me that's subconsciously adapted to hitting the Enter key "better" or some mechanical bit that's now bedded in?

The hours laying awake at night; wondering...