Great/Interesting Finds

[engr]

I get that a lot of folks like the Macro thing, too.

That's exactly what it is. The only reason I am looking at these is the hardware-level programmability. Sorry, I don't want any of these "Oh, it's really simple, just install this keylogger proprietary software, create an account, sign up for a newsletter... or you can buy a mysterious USB dongle from eBay when it's back in stock, install these toolboxes, flash this firmware..." No, I don't want to argue with IT folks about installing third-party software on my work computer either. I just want to do it the way my 30-year old Focus and Ortek boards could do it: by hitting the "program" key, then the key to assign the macro to, then the macro sequence, then the program key again. Why is this so hard?

[John Doe]

Speaking of white whales, here’s a Symbolics:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/115595278497

I’m guessing this will go above $1k.

2.5k

[thefarside]

Speaking of white whales, here’s a Symbolics:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/115595278497

I’m guessing this will go above $1k.

2.5k

Wow! Last time I looked it was at $500. Quite the jump!

[engr]

Does anyone know what this thing is and what kind of switches it uses?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/325252806466
Prox-PREMA programmable keyboard by Proxellent. Unfortunately, the seller does not know much about it and does not want to take a photo with a keycap off.

[Polecat]

The earlier ProXellents had Alps switches, and were related to Northgate/Avant. And those had macro programmability built in. The instructions for that were posted here a couple years back. But the recessed back on this one suggests membrane to me.

There was an early one for sale here a week or two back, but I believe it was in Europe.

edit: Macro instructions:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=23895

Northgate connection:

viewtopic.php?p=503025#p503025

For sale here (same owner!)

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=27653

[engr]

The earlier ProXellents had Alps switches, and were related to Northgate/Avant. And those had macro programmability built in. The instructions for that were posted here a couple years back. But the recessed back on this one suggests membrane to me.

Thanks. Have you ever tried those instructions (Macro programmability) with other Focus boards? Did they work?

For sale here (same owner!)

Yeah, I messaged him about that keyboard (had no idea what it was but the "Programmable" label on the box sounded interesting. Got no reply :/

[Polecat]

Thanks. Have you ever tried those instructions (Macro programmability) with other Focus boards? Did they work?

The only Focus I have with a Macro key is the black one, which was an FK-2002 originally. The black case now has an FK-2001 plate and PC board, but I still have the original parts. I never actually tried the ProXellent routine with it, but I'll dig it out and give it a try, just for grins.

The 2002 came with an ISO layout, and usually a non-U.S. character set, but mine came with U.S. caps and a generic "Enhanced Keyboard" badge. I bought it new at a computer show, complete with book, but not a word in the book (which I still have) about the Macro key. I gave up on it having any internal programming a long time ago, because there is no EEPROM or flash chip, and the controller looks to be the same as an FK-2001. The Macro key generates a backslash when pressed, but with a different scan code than the "other" backslash, so it can be reassigned separately at least.

From what I remember, back in the DOS days, this would have been used to call up an external TSR macro program, which probably wasn't provided by Focus. I used to use ANSI.SYS to create macros in DOS, but that didn't work within some programs, like Wordstar, which was my WP of choice. I used a macro program called Prokey with Wordstar, which worked very nicely for me. That's all meaningless with Windows now, of course.

edit: a bit more about the Focus, while I'm thinking about this...

The black FK-2002 originally had its Macro key where the extra key usually is on an ISO layout, next to the small left shift. And this key, when an ISO keyboard is used with a U.S. OS installation generates the alternate backslash. So the Focus Macro key, to me, was just there to fill that space, but possibly these odd Focus keyboards were used as part of a hardware or software package, which included an external Macro program. Pure speculation, I can't prove any of that. But when I stuck the FK-2001 guts in the black case and rearranged the layout to match I went with ANSI Enter and backslash keys, and that gave me an extra backslash. I cut the traces and rewired the new backslash physically to the matrix in place of the original one next to the right Shift key, and rewired that switch to the pads in the Macro/ISO position next to the left Shift key, so it generates the alternate backslash, instead of the regular one. And I stuck the Macro cap on the original backslash, just to have something there. Yes, the early FK-2001 keyboard uses the same PC board as the FK-2002 version, with extra pads to allow for both layouts. And again, the Macro generates the same alternate backslash on the FK-2001 PC board that it did on the FK-2002, another reason I don't think there's any internal Macro programming.

[ekeppel]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/134329154877

$99 plus shipping.

NOS 1394193 Terminal Model Ms sealed in their boxes. Seller shows greater than qty 10 available.

[Muirium]

Seller seems shifty character to me.

Spoiler:

Kidding. It’s DT’s very own Texan legend: XMIT.

[hellothere]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/134329154877

$99 plus shipping.

NOS 1394193 Terminal Model Ms sealed in their boxes. Seller shows greater than qty 10 available.

a. I wish I had more cash.
2. Good luck with the sales, XMIT!
III. I appreciate XMIT posting the warning that you can't use these on a modern computer without a Soarer's.

[Muirium]

Told you he was shifty. Imagine telling buyers dirty details like that! It’s ORGINAL MODELM CLICKY KEYBOARD isn’t that enough?

Good price for such nice condition. I had a NOS Greenock made terminal Model M long ago which I gave away in Deskthority Secret Santa when that was in its heydey. (To Seebart. I had to impress him!) I got a cool little Marquardt Mini from Hypkx in return, a board high in my todo list for a new controller.

[engr]

Anyone wants a rebadged Chicony KB-5181? Only $1,525 for an open box board with unknown switches!
To be fair, the seller does say that he is not sure if this board is rare, and accepts offers, so there is that.

[engr]

But the recessed back on this one suggests membrane to me.

Guess we'll find out this Saturday when it arrives... I am starting to think I may have a problem with programmable boards. That AnyKey with a UK layout looks more and more tempting despite the brutal UK-US shipping costs.

[John Doe]

Some Wangs are waiting 4 you.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Wang-724-Alps- ... 632-2357-0

[Polecat]

But the recessed back on this one suggests membrane to me.

Guess we'll find out this Saturday when it arrives... I am starting to think I may have a problem with programmable boards. That AnyKey with a UK layout looks more and more tempting despite the brutal UK-US shipping costs.

Fingers crossed that it's something decent. You have to keep in mind that back in the late '80s and early '90s the technology to save settings on the fly was almost nonexistent. The serial EEPROMs as used in the programmable Northgates and Avants were flaky at best, and flash memory didn't exist. Besides putting a battery in the keyboard (or on the back of an SRAM chip) there weren't any other options. I don't know how the Gateway AnyKeys work, but I suspect they lost the programming every time the power was turned off.

[engr]

Fingers crossed that it's something decent. You have to keep in mind that back in the late '80s and early '90s the technology to save settings on the fly was almost nonexistent. The serial EEPROMs as used in the programmable Northgates and Avants were flaky at best, and flash memory didn't exist. Besides putting a battery in the keyboard (or on the back of an SRAM chip) there weren't any other options. I don't know how the Gateway AnyKeys work, but I suspect they lost the programming every time the power was turned off.

If Wikipedia is correct, the AnyKeys had EEPROMs rated for 10-year data retention but I don't know how reliable they were. Honestly, if this ProXellent ends up being a decent dome with sliders, I am not going to be disappointed, as long as it works.

[Polecat]

If Wikipedia is correct, the AnyKeys had EEPROMs rated for 10-year data retention but I don't know how reliable they were. Honestly, if this ProXellent ends up being a decent dome with sliders, I am not going to be disappointed, as long as it works.

Ahhh, probably a serial EEPROM like the Avant then. From what I remember at the time the problem with those wasn't how long they'd hold the data, it was how many write cycles they were good for. It wasn't all that many, and it wasn't predictable. Or preventable.That wasn't solved until flash memory came out (which also made thumb drives and digital cameras possible).

[engr]

Ahhh, probably a serial EEPROM like the Avant then. From what I remember at the time the problem with those wasn't how long they'd hold the data, it was how many write cycles they were good for. It wasn't all that many, and it wasn't predictable. Or preventable.That wasn't solved until flash memory came out (which also made thumb drives and digital cameras possible).

The spec sheets for the newer models of these chips promise as much as 100K or even 1M writing cycles, but I'm not sure if they are 100% compatible with the old Omnikeys/Avants. I guess I could email Microchip Technology (Amtel's successor) and ask. Do you happen to have any Omnikeys/Avants with nonfunctioning or missing EEPROMs?

[Polecat]

Ahhh, probably a serial EEPROM like the Avant then. From what I remember at the time the problem with those wasn't how long they'd hold the data, it was how many write cycles they were good for. It wasn't all that many, and it wasn't predictable. Or preventable.That wasn't solved until flash memory came out (which also made thumb drives and digital cameras possible).

The spec sheets for the newer models of these chips promise as much as 100K or even 1M writing cycles, but I'm not sure if they are 100% compatible with the old Omnikeys/Avants. I guess I could email Microchip Technology (Amtel's successor) and ask. Do you happen to have any Omnikeys/Avants with nonfunctioning or missing EEPROMs?

The only programmable Northgate/Avant I have is the black Avant Stellar. The macro programming worked on that one when I bought it in 2017. It was in nearly new condition when I got it. I replaced one broken switch and did the cap swap and ANSI modification, but it's mostly been sitting since then. I had planned to replace the SKBM switches with white or blue SKCM.

[hellothere]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/394319978146

Z80 - NABU Personal Computer & Keyboard - Vintage New Old Stock. I don't know if the interest in this item (187 watchers/86 sold) is because of the computer part or because of the keyboard part or both. Quick Google says that this was made from 1983 to 1986.

[hellothere]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/265992814189

Rafi Keyboard RS 76 M Mechanical Switch Siemens Teleperm trackball B6-C B7 Pink.
Being sold for parts. Missing some plastic around the trackball and a bunch of keys.

[hellothere]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/125611683617

1981 ITW Magnetic Valve Keyboard
Complete. Only $50, ATM. Someone could buy it for me, but I seem to have acquired a NIB Model M ...

[guidemetothelight]

Z80 - NABU Personal Computer & Keyboard - Vintage New Old Stock.

What Switches does it use ?

[engr]

Fingers crossed that it's something decent.

Well, it has arrived, and....

Spoiler:

...it has some kind of dome with sliders. Looks like Alps dome with sliders, and the keycaps are Alps-compatible, but the siders are shaped a bit differently. Feels pretty mediocre, not the best rubber dome I have had, but not the worst either.

FCC ID is IANPROX11GV3, and the applicant is ProXellent International LLC. The manual has some of the most amusing Engrish I have seen and is copyrighted to InterFatron-BBC, Ltd.

We'll see if and how the programmability works after it thaws up (it's freezing outside).

EDIT: It works! Manual re-programming is quite easy, too.

[hellothere]

Z80 - NABU Personal Computer & Keyboard - Vintage New Old Stock.

What Switches does it use ?

No clue. I'm pretty positive "mechanical," but I don't know beyond that.

[John Doe]

Z80 - NABU Personal Computer & Keyboard - Vintage New Old Stock.

What Switches does it use ?

No clue. I'm pretty positive "mechanical," but I don't know beyond that.

1000 available?

[Polecat]

Fingers crossed that it's something decent.

Well, it has arrived, and....

Spoiler:

...it has some kind of dome with sliders. Looks like Alps dome with sliders, and the keycaps are Alps-compatible, but the siders are shaped a bit differently. Feels pretty mediocre, not the best rubber dome I have had, but not the worst either.

FCC ID is IANPROX11GV3, and the applicant is ProXellent International LLC. The manual has some of the most amusing Engrish I have seen and is copyrighted to InterFatron-BBC, Ltd.

We'll see if and how the programmability works after it thaws up (it's freezing outside).

EDIT: It works! Manual re-programming is quite easy, too.

Well I'm glad the programming works at least. Does it program the same way as the Alps ProXellent? Interfatron-BBC, as you probably know already, was the keyboard engineering company bought by Northgate around the Gen2 time period. The floppy disc that came with the Alps ProXellent had their copyright on it.

[shine]

IBM 3277 - "Early Vintage Metal Computer Terminal Keyboard 1825028 718789 372 Unknown Maker"

https://www.ebay.com/itm/155260580873

[Muirium]

Sweet little Beamer.

[engr]

Does it program the same way as the Alps ProXellent?

I haven't had a chance to play with Alps ProXellent, but the PreMa is really straightforward to program. You press the Macro Prg key, and the Macro on light starts flashing. Then you press the key to assign the macro to, then type the macro (up to 74 characters), and press the Macro Prg key again. That's it. Since it's not a battlecruiser, the macros just get assigned to regular keys, so you need to put the keyboard in the macro mode by pressing "Macro On" key before using macros.
Remapping is done similarly by using Remap key instead of Macro Prg.