Tactile Board Suggestions

[MyDogSaysHi_42]

I've got a Model M that I love, but I've got the itch to have a second good keyboard so I can switch between them and thus keep getting reminded how good each one is (in their own way). I'd like the second keyboard to be tactile -- give me some variety, but also be something good for Zoom calls.

Looking at Chyros' videos, it looks like BTC Dome with Slider, Dell QuietKey with NMB dome w/slider, and SCKM Salmon are good. I'm also intrigued by IBM POS keyboards (buckling rubber sleeve) that Sharktastica has given some praise for.

I'm curious what people think of this set of switches. In particular, the buckling rubber sleeves compared to the other ones since I haven't been able to find much about them beyond Shark's descriptions

[engr]

I think BTC dome with sliders feel pleasant enough, but I find them too stiff for long typing sessions. I prefer 45g Topre over them. I don't have experience with the other switches you mentioned.

[guidemetothelight]

Looking at Chyros' videos, it looks like BTC Dome with Slider, Dell QuietKey with NMB dome w/slider, and SCKM Salmon are good.

I personally had a BTC Board, its ok. The MX Keycap compatibility is awesome though ! My HHKB (stock) feels better out of the box, and i cleaned the BTC quite thorough. I would say 5.5 / 10.
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NMB dome with slider isnt really for me , but I never ran a NMB board for longer then a day since i dont own one.
Alps on the other hand, i like a lot ! Salmons arent in my collection but I can attest to Creams & Oranges being awesome tactile switches. Heard a lot of good things about salmons as well. Maybe, if you are on a lot of zoom calls , something like wiki/Alps_SKCM_Cream_Damped could be for you, since they are a lot less noisy then normal alps. maybe even matias quiet clicks.

[Muirium]

+1 for damped Alps. Give them a little time and they are more satisfying than they have any right to be.

[engr]

I personally had a BTC Board, its ok. The MX Keycap compatibility is awesome though ! My HHKB (stock) feels better out of the box, and i cleaned the BTC quite thorough. I would say 5.5 / 10.

That has also been my experience, out of the box Realforce 45g feels and sounds better than the out of the box new BTC-5139.
But of course it's all very subjective - some people outfit their Topre boards with aftermarket domes to make them more tactile.

OP, you may also want to look into Matias tactile click switches, which are basically modern simplified dampened Alps.

[Muirium]

The few Matias boards I’ve tried were all very far short indeed of the tactile Alps experience I like so much. They may be descended from them, but much was lost along the way.

A good tactile board should have flow. I prize Topre highest of all for this (certainly for a keyboard family still in production) and complicated tactile Alps is also a contender. Definitely not tactile MX or Matias though.

[apastuszak]

Track down an Apple Extended Keyboard II with Cream Alps. Very nice board. Only problem is, you'll need an ADB to USB adapter to use it.

[guidemetothelight]

Track down an Apple Extended Keyboard II with Cream Alps. Very nice board.

+1 , probably the easiest thing to do ! they are pretty abundat in almost every part of the globe. I owned a few AEK II´s myself and the dampened cream alps were better then dampened whites imo. Now they´ve been all sold or taken apart to build 60% boards out of them
If not, I would have sold you one

[MyDogSaysHi_42]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone! Time to research in the Wiki and eBay! Interesting that there doesn't seem to be experience with IBM buckling rubber sleeves here.

[Scarpia]

I’m a tactile fan myself and if you’re looking to get a quiet tactile experience I have to second the Topre recommendation, 45g for a subtle tactility or 55g for a satisfying yet not tiring tactility — coming from a Model M the 55g Topres should suit your fingers well.

In the vintage category I don’t have experience with buckling rubber sleeves (yet!) and I’m not as enamoured with cream damped Alps as others - but orange or salmon Alps are definitely worth a try, even if they aren’t silenced.

However, if you’re interested in a more custom keyboard with a choice of layouts, keycap colorways and profiles, then neither the vintage boards or Topres will give you that; in that case I would recommend the Durock T1 Shrimp switch; it’s silent and uses the MX mount, so it will work with hundreds of cases and keycap sets available. It’s also got a very nice tactile feel, not too dissimilar from silenced Topres.

[Muirium]

Dunno about Duroc Shrimps—maybe it’s better in the original Chinese—but 55g Topre are indeed very satisfying. I actually prefer 45g, but use them enough and they’ll transform into 55g anyway, like my first HHKB.

A word of warning about Topre: they may spoil you on Model M, they’re so good. I’m a Model F extremist for my clicks, thanks to day driving Topre. Scruffy switches just won’t do.

[Maledicted]

Maxi Switch dws is my favorite for just tactile dws boards, nearly as nice as Topre and Niz. BTC and NMB are good as well though. Fujitsu Peerless and Focus DWS are great as well in my opinion, since they're slightly clicky. Never tried buckling rubber sleeve.

There's really not a huge difference between complicated Alps and Matias in terms of feel for their dampened tactiles. Just compared Matias against dampened creams side by side. I think most people's qualms with Matias switches are the difference in sound vs the older housing material and the roomy cases the Alps switches were usually in. They're both some of the best tactile switches around if you like something a little sharper than domes (that aren't Peerless or Focus dws).

Even being primarily a clicky guy, I like everything mentioned more than membrane buckling spring. I really don't think you could go wrong even just putting on a blindfold and picking one.

[engr]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone! Time to research in the Wiki and eBay! Interesting that there doesn't seem to be experience with IBM buckling rubber sleeves here.

If you want to try a BTC dome with slider board, you can have my new open box BTC-5139 for $15 plus cost of shipping. I used it for a couple of days and didn't like it all that much for the reasons I described.

[engr]

There's really not a huge difference between complicated Alps and Matias in terms of feel for their dampened tactiles. Just compared Matias against dampened creams side by side. I think most people's qualms with Matias switches are the difference in sound vs the older housing material and the roomy cases the Alps switches were usually in. They're both some of the best tactile switches around if you like something a little sharper than domes (that aren't Peerless or Focus dws).

I can't speak to their dampened tactiles (aside from the fact that some people had chattering issues with them, but from reading other threads I think it has been resolved since then?), but their clicky switches are not as good as the original SKCM "pine" white Alps IMO. I think they are similar or perhaps even better than "bamboo" SKCM whites though. I think the main issue is not the simplified contact mechanism but rather the lack of pine slits in the upper housing, which causes a more clunky, rattly feel and sound (if you get a "bamboo" white Alps switch and swap the upper housing with a "pine" one you will see what I mean).

[Reimu64]

I’m quite surprised not a lot of folks here have tried out buckling rubber sleeve switches. I’ve not tried the IBM ones, but the Mitsumi KPQ Type on my Apple Keyboard II isn’t anything special. They feel relatively tactile, but not as mushy as modern-day rubber dome switches. This is also coming from a mint keyboard. I’ve tried KPQ switches on heavily used keyboards before which did not feel great.

NMB dome with silders are slightly snappier than KPQs. Again, this is coming from mint-ish keyboard with little use (Dell QuietKey).

BTC dome with silders. These were louder than the others from my experience. Plus, I personally found them too light. The MX compatibility is a bonus if that’s something you care about.

Topre 45g is pretty damn good, very refined and always satisfying to type on, but also the most expensive even when compared to an AEK II with Dampened Alps (also really nice switches; both the Cream and the White).

When it comes to more modern switches, the Boba U4 is a great choice. A really premium silent tactile switch. I have the Durock Shrimp on hand, but I’ve yet to actually try them.

[Maledicted]

There's really not a huge difference between complicated Alps and Matias in terms of feel for their dampened tactiles. Just compared Matias against dampened creams side by side. I think most people's qualms with Matias switches are the difference in sound vs the older housing material and the roomy cases the Alps switches were usually in. They're both some of the best tactile switches around if you like something a little sharper than domes (that aren't Peerless or Focus dws).

I can't speak to their dampened tactiles (aside from the fact that some people had chattering issues with them, but from reading other threads I think it has been resolved since then?), but their clicky switches are not as good as the original SKCM "pine" white Alps IMO. I think they are similar or perhaps even better than "bamboo" SKCM whites though. I think the main issue is not the simplified contact mechanism but rather the lack of pine slits in the upper housing, which causes a more clunky, rattly feel and sound (if you get a "bamboo" white Alps switch and swap the upper housing with a "pine" one you will see what I mean).

I literally do not even own any bamboo Alps, lol. That makes sense to me though. Matias isn't quite as nice as complicated Alps, of course. I just think there's a lot less of a difference than people seem to suggest. I love my SKCM blues but I love my Matias boards too.

[Muirium]

There is a lot of difference. Some of it is the switches—I find Matias switches of all varieties I’ve tried much wobblier and looser than Alps—and a lot of the rest of it is the build of the case.

Setting aside Chattergeddon, which seems to have been resolved as far as people report, my biggest gripe with Matias is their choice of early 2000s era Apple keyboards as their design lodestar. Those boards were trashy—one of them appalled me so much that I started getting curious about quality keyboards directly because of it—and their plastics were wobbly and loose. Matias has been loyally maintaining that lousy quality and feel now for going on 20 years! Couldn’t they have copied the actual golden era Alps boards instead of the dubious and dated G4 iMac keyboard?

[Findecanor]

BTC dome with silders. These were louder than the others from my experience. Plus, I personally found them too light. The MX compatibility is a bonus if that’s something you care about.

MX compatibility is only partial on my BTC 5140. Stabilisers are different.
Maybe some other model is more compatible.

[Maledicted]

There is a lot of difference. Some of it is the switches—I find Matias switches of all varieties I’ve tried much wobblier and looser than Alps—and a lot of the rest of it is the build of the case.

Setting aside Chattergeddon, which seems to have been resolved as far as people report, my biggest gripe with Matias is their choice of early 2000s era Apple keyboards as their design lodestar. Those boards were trashy—one of them appalled me so much that I started getting curious about quality keyboards directly because of it—and their plastics were wobbly and loose. Matias has been loyally maintaining that lousy quality and feel now for going on 20 years! Couldn’t they have copied the actual golden era Alps boards instead of the dubious and dated G4 iMac keyboard?

Since I don't care about wobble, I had never even compared wobble of complicated Alps against Matias, but since I happen to have a Nan Tan board with SKCM whites and an OG Tactile Pro with brand new Matias switches swapped into it to compare within reach ... the Matias switches actually wobble very little, much less than the SKCMs. I do believe that tightening tolerances was part of Matias' alterations to the SKBM design when they paid Gaote (Outemu) to make their newer switches (and maybe more-so with more recent retoolings), to the point that SKCM sliders aren't compatible with newer Matias housings.

What, exactly, is wrong with the build of the case of Matias boards? I'm pretty sure they're made out of polycarbonate, which can literally stop bullets with enough thickness. Personally, even though I hate Apple with a passion, I really like the aesthetics of the Matias boards, and the bulge has a practical purpose in their boards since their controllers are on a separate PCB always mounted to the main PCB inside of that bulge, and they put the USB ports there. They actually have a generous amount of volume in them for reverberation with clicky switches too, something not common at all in modern boards. It may not sound as great as larger vintage Alps boards due to the switches and materials of the case, but it still sounds pretty great for a modern board.

You can't really compare Matias boards directly to the rubber dome Apple boards they're styled after cosmetically. I have a lot of daily driver time on Matias boards now, even throwing them around in cars for use with Android stereos, and I can tell you with confidence that they're stout boards.

[Scarpia]

I wonder if I should update my switch collection with a set of new-tooling Matias switches. I have never used a Matias keyboard and I can’t speak to their build quality, so all I have to go on are loose switches from five or so years ago, and those feel not-great and the slider stem holes (wait, is that even what we’re calling them? Ew) are too tight so every time I pull a keycap off it feels like I’ll either break the keycap or rip the switch right off the PCB.

I’d be really curious to get my hands on a set of new Matiases. I doubt the keyfeel has changed much since there’s only so much you can do with the simplified design, but they could have certainly improved both sound and tolerances.

[Maledicted]

I’d be really curious to get my hands on a set of new Matiases. I doubt the keyfeel has changed much since there’s only so much you can do with the simplified design, but they could have certainly improved both sound and tolerances.

I don't know that the sound of loose switches has necessarily improved. They don't sound or feel as nice as SKCM. I don't think the feel has ever been that much worse though. They're still some of the nicest switches in mass production today, and it seems like the chatter issues are no more. They're also cheap as hell to boot.

[Dingster]

I was actually in a very similar situation to you, got a very cheap Thermaltake Meka G1 and swapped it with Jwick T1 nylon switches, and so far it's been awesome - somewhat similar to topre while being unique (very tactile MX design). They're also fairly affordable at 3.17eur/10 switches.

If you're comfortable with soldering and desoldering I suggest you give this a shot