F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[AnnoyedWalrus]

I've read that heat shrink tubing also works, so I might give that a go if the bandaids don't stay in place

Wow, that bandaid mod really removed the only complaint I had with my F77, the rattly space bar. I don't know why I didn't think of it myself!

[Ellipse]

Thanks for the photos o2dazone.

Regarding compiling QMK, it seems like you need to use an older version of QMK. Or you could just use pandrew's git version exactly and make any changes from there, without updating anything from newer QMK branches, until the issue is resolved.

[daphnis]

I was trying to use an older version, but I think an updated dependency disagreed with it.

[daphnis]

For some reason,

Code: Select all

void matrix_init_user(void) {
	default_layer_set(pow(2, _QGMLWB));
}

doesn't work anymore (with pandrew's fork). layer_state_set works,
but I suppose that must differ from default_layer_set in some
significant way.

[sammyj]

I had success compiling Matthew Wolf's repo

First install python3 qmk (for people starting from scratch):

Code: Select all

python3 -m pip install --user qmk

Then clone Matthew Wolf's repo, you have to clone this specific branch with -b

Code: Select all

git clone -b model_f_labs_f62_f77 https://github.com/matthew-wolf-n4mtt/qmk_firmware.git

Then compile by:

Code: Select all

cd qmk_firmware
make model_f_labs/f77:regular_shift_regular_backspace_prscr_scrlock_etc

Where regular_shift_regular... is your layout

Compiled hex files then can be found here:

Code: Select all

~/qmk_firmware/.build/model_f_labs_f77_wcass_regular_shift_regular_backspace_prscr_scrlock_etc.hex

Finally you can copy your .hex file to Windows to flash it with Flip or other avr USB solution, remember flash the eeprom_eraser.hex first provided by Ellipse

[daphnis]

This doesn't seem to contain all the layouts.

[daphnis]

Does qmk have any advantage over kmonad?

[Ellipse]

Metal Badges:

I am planning on ordering some logo badges for the keyboards, that have adhesive backing to be affixed on any keyboards but are the size of the F122 badge (a little smaller than the badges on the XT style keyboards). Any recommendations on the graphics options to offer? I was thinking the buckling spring logo and maybe the beam spring logo? Of course the original logo or anything similar to it cannot be used, so no line art. Dot matrix text/art would probably be fine.

Does anyone know the original process to apply the graphics for optimal appearance and longevity? Sublimation, printing, heat transfer, lasering with paint infill, etc.

Some other IBM badge projects:
viewtopic.php?t=18885
viewtopic.php?t=18905
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=13814&start=60

[Ellipse]

I have just approved production on the LED overlays. Even this not-too-complex part was difficult to source and took about 9 months to find a supplier that can meet the requirements. The texture of the plastic material was most challenging. Now the Round 1 beam spring boards can start going out. The samples look good, though I noted that the factory needs to adjust the color balance before proceeding (or maybe it is just the lighting angle). (The one installed on the IBM Model M case is the original one for comparison)

2023-03-07_17-05-49 - LED overlay.jpg (1.96 MiB) Viewed 11250 times

2023-03-07_17-05-40 - LED overlay.jpg (1.39 MiB) Viewed 11250 times

[webwit]

Your ll kerning is better!

[AlexB555]

Really interesting project, this overlay.

I'll just add my comments here as well. Maybe a version using the standardized pictograms (iso 9995-7) could be interesting (I had good comments about my layout, thanks guys ). It's just a proposition.

Personally, I like the second proposition (bottom, English + iso 9995-7). I could be interested in the future.

[Ellipse]

webwit - as always we have Zed to thank for the excellent results on all of the key sets and LED overlays.

If anyone is interested in any additional designs enough to cover the minimum order quantity costs please email / PM me within the next week or so as things become finalized. I have seen some nice suggestions today from AlexB555 as well as from others in the past. I have to double check whether the minimum order quantity is 10 or 20 for each design with the standard pricing in the shop.

[Shinryuu]

Does anyone happen to know why spacebar wire keeps hitting some of my keys such as X and : on Model F62? I can't seem to figure this out at all. Wire is placed correctly inside of those metal clips as well. This doesn't happen on my IBM M SSK when I swap them. Spacebar is original but I have dyed it fyi. Happens on original IBM M SSK spacebar as well when being used on Model F62. I tried IBM M SSK wire but the issue is still there. I'd love to hear if other people have this very same issue so I can fix this somehow.

photo_2023-03-09_15-55-39.jpg (110.4 KiB) Viewed 10997 times

photo_2023-03-09_15-55-39 (2).jpg (83.34 KiB) Viewed 10997 times

[Takashi]

Hi all! I have one problem that I hope someone here can help me understand.

I ordered a second F77 (Swedish layout). I wanted it to be configured exactly the same way as my first one, which is running VIA software.
So what I did was that I first connected my first keyboard (which is working just fine), launched Via 1.3.1, and downloaded the definitions.

Then I connected my second F77, uploaded the VIA firmrware to it (according to this manual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Esj2gZ0XptE). When uploading the firmware in the ATMEL software I used the file: Via F77 - ANSI-ISO - PrintScr.hex.

Now to the problem. My modifier key doesn't work and doesn't seem to do anything. It's currently configured to use this key:
https://ibb.co/TLdvFfq (see marking in red).
what the modifier key is supposed to do is to enable layer 1, which will give me my F-keys, like this:
https://ibb.co/3fL7BCk

Whatever I do, the F-keys don't work so the modifier key doesn't do anything (it doesn't enable the first layer).
I just get the feeling that neither the NUM-lock button nor the MO(1) button works!

I should note that I know the buttons work PHYSICALLY as before I uploaded the VIA firmware I used the pandrew utility with the QMK firmware and I did a key-test of all keys, and each and one of them worked.

What mistake have I done?

Edit: Figured it out! I needed to load the keyboard with the file "Via F77 - ANSI-ISO - 0-9.hex".
Keyboard now working fine

[Takashi]

I happened to notice that the texture of the two keyboards are quite different.
The color is slightly different too.
I think both are very pretty and really don't mind, but it's just something I noticed.
Funny thing is, that these two are manufactured on the same day (though with a serial number difference of over 300).

Anyone else noticed it too?

The upper is my "old" keyboard (serial number 6xx) and the lower one is the new (serial number 9xx).

[Shinryuu]

Does anyone happen to know why spacebar wire keeps hitting some of my keys such as X and : on Model F62? I can't seem to figure this out at all. Wire is placed correctly inside of those metal clips as well. This doesn't happen on my IBM M SSK when I swap them. Spacebar is original but I have dyed it fyi. Happens on original IBM M SSK spacebar as well when being used on Model F62. I tried IBM M SSK wire but the issue is still there. I'd love to hear if other people have this very same issue so I can fix this somehow.

photo_2023-03-09_15-55-39.jpg
photo_2023-03-09_15-55-39 (2).jpg

[Ellipse]

pandrew's solenoid driver potential upgrade - feedback I received today. I don't know if this upgrade is recommended or will affect the lifespan of the solenoid in a noticeable way.

"What ended up improving the responsiveness substantially was replacing R7 with a lower resistance resistor. This has the effect of increasing the boost voltage to 12v instead of 9. As a result the solenoid has WAY more power. The result is that I can use a basically insignificant dwell time. I currently have it set at 1ms. This is about 20x faster than what I could do at 9v. Now the solenoid has no problem keeping up with me. I also upgraded the cap to 470uf instead of the 220uf. This is my first electronics project and it was a lot of fun. I do not think the cap headroom is needed - just the resistor change so the boost converter boosts all the way up to 12v instead of 9v. I noticed a significant increase in both power and speed. To counter act that so it wasn’t deafeningly loud I unwound the spring a little bit. That also made it return faster which lets it keep up with my typing speed. "

Takashi the sticker date is the date that the sticker was printed - not related to production date. Confirmed the textures vary between keyboard batches and even vary a bit among the colors as well.

[DMA]

I don't know if this upgrade is recommended or will affect the lifespan of the solenoid in a noticeable way.

Solenoid will be fine as long as you don't melt it with this upgrade. Which doesn't seem likely.

[Scarpia]

I happened to notice that the texture of the two keyboards are quite different.
The color is slightly different too.
I think both are very pretty and really don't mind, but it's just something I noticed.
Funny thing is, that these two are manufactured on the same day (though with a serial number difference of over 300).

Anyone else noticed it too?

The upper is my "old" keyboard (serial number 6xx) and the lower one is the new (serial number 9xx).

Ellipse explained (though it was years and hundreds of pages ago) that the dates on the labels aren’t manufacturing dates, but rather the date he printed the labels — it’s more like a date of assembly, though that’s no guarantee either; different batches have the same ‘birthdate’ for this reason.

[Ellipse]

Here is a nice unique customized F77 posted on imgur a couple months ago. I like that so many folks have done nice customizations of these keyboards.

https://imgur.com/PlC6Zim

[dcopellino]

Screenshot_20230317_152558_Photo Editor.jpg (236.53 KiB) Viewed 10292 times

Happy to share here my new F77 that has been acquired as second hand bargain on eBay. As you can see I'm still doing some arrangements to the final layout. I'll make up my mind sooner or later to open it up for preparing the insertion of a big ass enter (in the pic leaned only) and unifying the backspace keys.
Although work in progress, I'm glad to have tried and compared it with a genuine 4704 from over thirty years ago. Not bad at all, Joe.

[Shinryuu]

I got my F77 in July 2020 so it’s been a little over two years; since I’m sharing an office I don’t always use my loudest keyboard but I’ve probably used it about a third of the time.

I was expecting to see some degradation or chipping of the paint, but so far at least it’s looking as good as new.

Keyfeel is unchanged as far as I can tell, and the keycaps / buttons aren’t even dirty enough to warrant a trip through the ultrasonic yet.

I did a floss mod a few weeks after it arrived and I don’t think I’ve had to reseat a single key since. At one point the space bar wire was conflicting with one of the bottom row alphas when bottoming out, but just slightly and it hasn’t bothered me since.

Firmware-wise I switched to pandrews build in late 2020 and it has worked so well that I never bothered to switch to any of the newer builds.

All in all, I’m a very happy camper.

How's your space bar conflict nowadays? I can't seem to figure this out at all. I also did try to add some stuff inside of those metal holders but it prevented wire from moving correctly.

[Scarpia]

Haven’t noticed a problem with the space bar since.

[Shinryuu]

Haven’t noticed a problem with the space bar since.

Thanks for the reply. I'll try to debug this somehow.

[Ellipse]

Here is a nice F77 Silver Gray case color with blue and dark gray custom keycaps. Sharing with permission.

f77.jpg (1.29 MiB) Viewed 9961 times

[Ellipse]

The forum member behind the new Quebec CSA has just submitted a new key set, option, French AFNOR (BÉPO), and has comments below. I have sent the design to the factory, to be included in an air shipment going out this month or next month. I am ordering a few extra sets in case anyone is interested. The gray shading indicates that the keys will be pebble color while the rest will be pearl.

"This layout was developed in the early 2000s and standardized by the French government in 2019. Contrary to the traditional French AZERTY layout, the French BÉPO seems more appreciated in Quebec/Canada. Microsoft seems to offer this "new" French layout in their preview build since November 2022, I expect to see this layout included in the next stable version soon. I need to install the correct preview build on my computer and test it. I will let you know when it's ready. This layout is more "classical", doesn't have a proper gr2 key (ctrl-right), just a second boat wheel (right) and the Christmas tree (Alt Gr) will be blue. This layout is ISO only."
https://kbdlayout.info/kbdfrnb/overview%2Bscancodes

afnor-color2.png (123.27 KiB) Viewed 9914 times

[sedevidi]

The forum member behind the new Quebec CSA has just submitted a new key set, option, French AFNOR (BÉPO), and has comments below. I have sent the design to the factory, to be included in an air shipment going out this month or next month. I am ordering a few extra sets in case anyone is interested. The gray shading indicates that the keys will be pebble color while the rest will be pearl.

The µ on the G key is turned to the left. Normal?
How the author proposes to solve the Esc vs. $ # - ? This one seems tricky in this layout...

[Muirium]

The µ on the G key is turned to the left. Normal?

Looks to be on purpose. I quite like it.

[depletedvespene]

The forum member behind the new Quebec CSA has just submitted a new key set, option, French AFNOR (BÉPO), and has comments below. I have sent the design to the factory, to be included in an air shipment going out this month or next month. I am ordering a few extra sets in case anyone is interested. The gray shading indicates that the keys will be pebble color while the rest will be pearl.

"This layout was developed in the early 2000s and standardized by the French government in 2019. Contrary to the traditional French AZERTY layout, the French BÉPO seems more appreciated in Quebec/Canada. Microsoft seems to offer this "new" French layout in their preview build since November 2022, I expect to see this layout included in the next stable version soon. I need to install the correct preview build on my computer and test it. I will let you know when it's ready. This layout is more "classical", doesn't have a proper gr2 key (ctrl-right), just a second boat wheel (right) and the Christmas tree (Alt Gr) will be blue. This layout is ISO only."
https://kbdlayout.info/kbdfrnb/overview%2Bscancodes

afnor-color2.png

I am noticing a few "discrepancies" in the drawing that are ultimately related to differences between the actual standard and Micro$oft's implementation. I'm gonna have to take a detailed look.

Also, the new standard creates two distinct "new" French layouts, "standard" and "Bépo". Ellipse, be sure to clearly specify this one is the latter.

[depletedvespene]

The forum member behind the new Quebec CSA has just submitted a new key set, option, French AFNOR (BÉPO), and has comments below. I have sent the design to the factory, to be included in an air shipment going out this month or next month. I am ordering a few extra sets in case anyone is interested. The gray shading indicates that the keys will be pebble color while the rest will be pearl.

The µ on the G key is turned to the left. Normal?

Style differences. Perhaps it's a subtle way of telling the users that Bépo is a crooked layout.

How the author proposes to solve the Esc vs. $ # - ? This one seems tricky in this layout...

I solved the clash between the Esc key and the corner alpha (`~ in en-US, '"` in ib-ES, ºª in es-ES, the digit 0 in hu, $#– here) by moving the former to the Caps Lock key, a change I love so much it's now standard in all my keyboards. But... I know it's not for everyone.

The "trick" of accessing Esc as Fn-` or ` as Fn-Esc "works" for some people because they're not "frequently used" symbols, outside of Unix and programming environments. But in some other national layouts (see above), that's just impractical.


Ellipse, can you do 1.75U Esc keys? I need a few.