Are newer Kailh BOXs cap killers, too?

[yaun]

Hi,

as despite having a retooled stem BOX Whites still stretch and crack keycaps, I wonder: Do Glazed Greens, White Owls or White V2s do that, too?

[Maledicted]

I have box jades and navies in many boards and have for years now. I don't have any fancy GMK caps, but I haven't had any problems with them with an assortment of random vintage and modern caps.

[yaun]

I have Whites with new stem. They damaged the stock caps of my LK20.

[Maledicted]

What is the LK20? Very few results on Google. Maybe a Filco clone with cheap caps based on pictures and posts on Reddit.

I just know I have jades and navies going back years in at least 5 boards, including an old Unitek K-151L (stock caps), Corsair K65 (have had various sets on it), two TG3 boards (stock caps) and a Das Pro 4 (random Amazon PBT double shots) with no problems.

[yaun]

It’s a Lioncast LK20. I guess it was around 90€ in Germany. It’s a solid TKL with a steel plate and a real case with a bit of volume.

Isn’t it a known fact, that the retooled BOX switches can still kill caps? That’s why there is the cruciformer (← ?) and that other thing, used to shave a bit of plastic off the stem. But when these two tools came up, there were only BOX Whites, Reds, Jades, Pale Blues and maybe Navys and Pinks, as far as I know. That’s why I wonder if the newer switches have that problem, too.

[Maledicted]

I always just laughed seeing posts about that stuff. As far as I can tell, that was fixed before I even started buying box switches.

Das Pro 4 cap.jpg (253.67 KiB) Viewed 6706 times

Here's the cap from the F key on my Das, since I figure it is probably one of the most used. A few of the caps on that board are starting to shine even though they're PBT and that's the set I have had on the same set of box switches the longest.

Does it look even slightly damaged at all to you? Do what you will, but I would just get some decent double shots to replace the lasered caps that came on that one and enjoy.

[yaun]

I completely forgot one thing: I have been using BOX Whites on a GMMK with TaiHao Smokeys and BOX Pinks on a Keychron Q0 with Smokeys, both for at least a year now. Those caps are damaged, too.

The Cherry MX Blues on the LK20 didn’t damage the caps, the Gateron Blues on the Q0 didn’t damage its caps, so any other switch shouldn’t. Say what you will, but the BOX switches obviously still have a problem.

I thought it was fixed, too, when I started buying BOX switches. But then reports popped up, about the stem still having these ribs, stretching caps. That’s what the two tools I mentioned are for. But: Other swtiches have ribs, too. So:

[Maledicted]

Alright, sure. I just magically got multiple bags of switches that have never damaged over a half dozen random sets of different caps and all of the bad bags went to you.

I'll just keep using them on every MX board I don't put Clickiez into and keep enjoying them. You do you.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[yaun]

I must be just imagining my caps being damaged, then, I guess. Is that what you are trying to say?

[zrrion]

yes

[yaun]

So they’re not really damaged?

[zrrion]

yes

[yaun]

Cool. Very helpful. Thank you very much.

[Muirium]

Got pics of your damaged caps?

[yaun]

I can make some. But honestly, is that really so hard to believe?

wiki/Kailh_BOX#Known_issues
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=19891

[Muirium]

Belief without evidence? Why bother? Pics or never!

[yaun]

And then you tell me you if know if other BOX switches are any different?

[Hak Foo]

I have one board with Box Navies; it did stretch the caps I put on it (Domikey SA sets)-- they fit too loosely on the other board with Box Pale Blue and tend to pop off.

I have a container of Box White v2 waiting for a new PCB, and I don't know what to expect.

I know at least one keycap design-- some of the Akko ASA caps-- have a "pre-cracked" stem-- I wonder if that would provide more tolerance to not distort if put on a switch at the far end of tolerances.

[yaun]

Thanks! At least one person doesn’t seem to be thinking that I am either hallucinating or lying.

[BigBlambino]

How hard is it to just post a couple pictures of the damaged caps, lol

[Muirium]

I'll post a picture…

Spoiler:

[yaun]

Sorry, but this is really ridiculous. I am asking about White Owls, Glazed Greens and so on, and you want to see pictures of my key caps, because you don’t believe they were damaged by BOX Whites. What has one got to do with the other? If you want to mock someone, go play with children.

I have no reason to believe that you really know anything about the switches I asked about, so why would I post pictures? But if you really want to see, here you go:

The left cap has been on a BOX White, the right one on a BOX Pink.

[Muirium]

If you’re sure we all know nothing and are just a bunch of jokers, why are you asking us?

The cap on the right looks to have a crack in its stem, the left one seems fine though. Hard to tell from the pic. Got any more that have been wrecked?

I’m no fan of Box switches (tried a tester with Jades and Navies etc., meh, didn’t buy any) so I’ve no agenda to protect their rep. Does seem strange that there is no uproar against them if they really are still mincing caps, though.

[yaun]

Regarding the left one: Look closely. There is a white mark on the stem, even bigger than the mark one stem of the right one. I didn’t check all caps, but I noticed cracks on many of them.

What reason would I have to discredit BOX switches? And I am clearly not the only one reporting damaged caps. So, where is that strange mistrust coming from?

Then there is that obvious problem with logic: If I want to know if White Owls and Glazed Greens damage caps, what does it matter whether my caps on BOX Whites are cracked or not?

Crazy world …

[zrrion]

Sorry, but this is really ridiculous. I am asking about White Owls, Glazed Greens and so on, and you want to see pictures of my key caps, because you don’t believe they were damaged by BOX Whites. What has one got to do with the other?

You're so close to understanding the issue with the caps here. I'll give you a hint:

• Box switches have a stem.
• Your keycaps have a stem.
• The Box stem wasn't initially to MX spec and that caused cracks on caps who's stem was to spec.
• ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

Your answer is what would go in the 4th bullet point. See if you can puzzle it out.

If you want to mock someone, go play with children.

we already are lol

[yaun]

You're so close to understanding the issue with the caps here.

You have actually managed to get even more remote from understanding anything, to get even more off topic. My question isn’t about why the stems on my caps are damaged.

If you’re sure we all know nothing and are just a bunch of jokers, why are you asking us?

Not everyone here, just four certain members.

[Maledicted]

The reason nobody addressed your question is that nobody agrees with the premise that lead you to ask it. You linked posts from before the stems were even fixed and only brought up a second and third set of caps (the first of which being cheap lasered caps from an obscure board) once I mentioned that I have had no problems with old switches with various cap sets. It comes off as a little shady.

Here's the rest of the caps I have used for extended periods of time on box jade or navy switches from batches from 2020-2021:

20230310_030901.jpg (239.31 KiB) Viewed 6155 times

From left to right:

Unitek K-151L OG caps used on box jades, TG3 OG caps on box jades, AKKO double shots on box navies, cheap Amazon double shots on box navies.

I have another box jade TG3 board, but that would be redundant. I put each of these caps one-at-a-time on a Cooler Master Quick Fire Rapid with MX blues and they were not loose on them.

[yaun]

The reason nobody addressed your question is that nobody agrees with the premise that lead you to ask it.

Ah, yes. Naturally …

You linked posts from before the stems were even fixed

Oh really?

As response to the issues, Kaihua revised the switch to the narrower specification of 1.30±0.02mm. Switches with the new specifications were being sold in August 2018, with different varieties being updated later during the fall of 2018.[5].

However, there have been reports that the revised "V2" switch stem would still have nubs on the stem that could still cause keycaps to crack.[6]

–––––

and only brought up a second and third set of caps (the first of which being cheap lasered caps from an obscure board) once I mentioned that I have had no problems with old switches with various cap sets. It comes off as a little shady.

There is no third set. It’s one set used for a TKL and for a Numpad. I only brought that up after the first set was called indecent. So, who is being shady? I don’t see how the caps being cheap or lasered relates to the problem, as they didn’t break on other switches (Cherry MX Blues, Ink Yellows, …), only on BOX switches. The second set, which was implicitly asked for as proof, is neither cheap nor lasered, and still got damaged.

[Maledicted]

In 2018 there were tons of original switches still being sold by various vendors. I bought all of mine directly through NovelKeys for that reason, even much later than that. Everyone read all of those threads back then. They're no longer relevant.

You mentioned the Tai-Hao caps on two different boards with box switches, so I thought you meant two sets of the same caps. I have never used any of their MX caps.

The first set wasn't called "indecent". They're just of totally unknown quality on an extremely obscure board. Tai-Hao at least has a pretty good reputation.

Zrrion's point was that we do not know whether or not either cap set was within spec. There are more variables than just box switch stems. If the fault lied with box switches, there would be actual recent conversations about it. Kaihua and NovelKeys made their changes and that was the end of it. If not, there would have been public damage control since.

If there are no calls for further revisions to the stem design, why would they retool for newer variants of the same design?

[yaun]

The first set wasn't called "indecent". They're just of totally unknown quality on an extremely obscure board.

The board itself really won’t affect the caps’ stems, and as I said, the caps were not damaged by any other switch. You may doubt their quality, but they’re simply Cherry compatible caps made of ABS, working perfectly fine on Cherry switches, Gaterons and Novelkey Creams.

Zrrion's point was that we do not know whether or not either cap set was within spec. There are more variables than just box switch stems. If the fault lied with box switches, there would be actual recent conversations about it.

The wiki article sounds like there was.

If there are no calls for further revisions to the stem design, why would they retool for newer variants of the same design?

Well:

We cared about your guys opinions and we do wanna get more better.

According to the wiki article and to one of Chyros’ videos there are/were still problems.