Alps Appreciation

[phinix]

Mu is right. Find a board with tactile Alps (brown, orange, salmon, white damped, cream damped, black — in roughly that order of preference IMO, but don’t worry too much about it) and look to spend between £30-£100. That budget will get you a full board of all but browns and oranges, but condition is more important than colour; a clean cream damped will feel miles better than a scratchy orange.

To try out the brown Alps, often someone will sell loose Alps switches on eBay, and you can pick up one or two without breaking the bank. It won’t really tell you how they feel in a full keyboard, but it’s how I personally ended up going down the rabbit hole. I just sold my remaining 40 loose brown Alps a few weeks ago or I’d help you out myself.

AAaaaaahhh... 40 would make me a lot closer to whole 80 I would need
Yeah, I guess you are right. I need to look for those white or cream damped to feel alps for a first time.
I think those FK 2001 or whatever they are called, those keyboards with fixed brown cover looks so cool and I think they come with whites. I could try them?
But like you said - clean cream damped - what are my options in terms of keyboards? Which model would be best and easiest to find nowadays?
Apologies for all those questions - I know nothing about alps, had no experience, so I know and trust you guys can point me straight to right direction

[Muirium]

Try an Apple Extended II. The cleaner and less yellowed the better. They’re plentiful and you can source nice ones much easier than other boards.

Don’t even bother getting an ADB converter. Just try the keyboard. That first impression will tell you a lot. The Alps world is vast indeed, but if you don’t like creams / whites then you’re probably barking up the wrong tree. They only get rarer!

“Bigfoot” Dell keyboards are a good choice as well, but you can’t just look for the logo. A little research is required / switch pics.

[phinix]

Try an Apple Extended II. The cleaner and less yellowed the better. They’re plentiful and you can source nice ones much easier than other boards.

Don’t even bother getting an ADB converter. Just try the keyboard. That first impression will tell you a lot. The Alps world is vast indeed, but if you don’t like creams / whites then you’re probably barking up the wrong tree. They only get rarer!

“Bigfoot” Dell keyboards are a good choice as well, but you can’t just look for the logo. A little research is required / switch pics.

I hate apple, so won't be getting their keyboards. I would need anything else than those
Maybe SGI, like you said?

[Muirium]

Tim Cook is rubbing his greedy hands in delight at the pennies you’ll pay (someone else) for a used 1990s keyboard.

SGIs are rarer and more expensive. Same idea though.

[fohat]

I hate apple, so

I hate Apple, too, but they won't see any of the money that you pay for a keyboard that is older than my grown children.

Personally, I think that AEK and AEK2 are particularly ugly, especially when yellowed, but the switches and key caps are excellent. I just with that you could transplant the caps to other keyboards.

[phinix]

I hate apple, so

I hate Apple, too, but they won't see any of the money that you pay for a keyboard that is older than my grown children.

Personally, I think that AEK and AEK2 are particularly ugly, especially when yellowed, but the switches and key caps are excellent. I just with that you could transplant the caps to other keyboards.

Hey fohat. You're right, I could just use caps from those.

[thefarside]

Shipping might be expensive if you’re outside the USA but this is a cheap AEK II:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/125792510239

[hellothere]

I haven't tested for the beeper. It wasn't beeping when I was playing with it. Just a minute ...

[hellothere]

Test: DIN 5 to PS/2 adapter. No beep. My computer isn't terribly old, but it does have a "real" PS/2 port.
Test: DIN 5 to PS/2 adapter to USB active adapter. No beep.

I've had a few keyboards that had beepers and they've worked fine on my computer.

[hellothere]

Shipping might be expensive if you’re outside the USA but this is a cheap AEK II:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/125792510239

... That is now no longer available. Mine. All mine. Thanks for posting it!

Wiki entry on the AEK II. There is a high probability that this one has salmon Alps. Mind you, I've said before that if there isn't a pic of the switches, it's likely the least good option that's in the wiki. Hey, I've got an AEKII sitting here with a label that says "Made in USA" and it has white damped switches. So, I'm taking a little risk.

Note that AEKIIs with the "S" in a square in the lower right of the label (usually) means "damped" and usually "cream damped." I'm fond of cream damped switches and I have/had a number of AEKIIs.

The seller has a few more AEKIIs for sale at the same prices. I didn't check for the switches on the other ones. I'm out of cash, for now.

I'll be posting an AEKII that I've painted granite gray, in a while. I've just finished a week of testing it and it works. White damped Alps are odd. I'm also in the US, tho.

[hellothere]

Aaaaaaaa!1!!1!! I want to share so much! So little time!

> I think those FK 2001 or whatever they are called, those keyboards with fixed brown cover looks so cool and I think they come with whites. I could try them?
Check the Wiki. I have two FK-2001s sitting right there and one has complicated white Alps and the other has Futaba MA. So, unless the switch obviously says "Alps" on it (or, y'know, it looks like blue Alps), you need to ask the seller to pull a key cap to check.

It's also somewhat hard to find an FK-2001 with the cover.

> Follow-up on the Datacomp white Alps keyboard
It does flex like all get-out. I'm reasonably sure that it has an aluminum mounting plate (it's silver color), but flexes like one that has a plastic mounting plate. I'm lookin' at you, NTC!

The "speed" key is a yellow Alps switch with an LED.

> Personally, I think that AEK and AEK2 are particularly ugly, especially when yellowed
What if they look like this, instead?

Spoiler:

AEKII - Copy.jpg (1.48 MiB) Viewed 13026 times

Could you use the caps on a different keyboard? I know you can't use the F key row. There isn't a 2u plus key for the number pad. Spacebar is a bit small and has that pillar in it ...

[Maledicted]

Test: DIN 5 to PS/2 adapter. No beep. My computer isn't terribly old, but it does have a "real" PS/2 port.
Test: DIN 5 to PS/2 adapter to USB active adapter. No beep.

I've had a few keyboards that had beepers and they've worked fine on my computer.

Did yours come with the manual, or did you read the images of it in the listing? Looks like the beeper can be turned on and off by pressing ctrl+speed. Maybe it just isn't on by default, which is probably a reasonable decision with white Alps in a chonky plastic case. lol

[phinix]

Shipping might be expensive if you’re outside the USA but this is a cheap AEK II:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/125792510239

... That is now no longer available. Mine. All mine.

Great... thanks...

[thefarside]

Shipping might be expensive if you’re outside the USA but this is a cheap AEK II:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/125792510239

... That is now no longer available. Mine. All mine. Thanks for posting it!

Wiki entry on the AEK II. There is a high probability that this one has salmon Alps. Mind you, I've said before that if there isn't a pic of the switches, it's likely the least good option that's in the wiki. Hey, I've got an AEKII sitting here with a label that says "Made in USA" and it has white damped switches. So, I'm taking a little risk.

Note that AEKIIs with the "S" in a square in the lower right of the label (usually) means "damped" and usually "cream damped." I'm fond of cream damped switches and I have/had a number of AEKIIs.

The seller has a few more AEKIIs for sale at the same prices. I didn't check for the switches on the other ones. I'm out of cash, for now.

I'll be posting an AEKII that I've painted granite gray, in a while. I've just finished a week of testing it and it works. White damped Alps are odd. I'm also in the US, tho.

Happy to help and thanks for all of the info. I decided to play the alps lottery and also picked up one of the 1990 vintages. I’m curious if it has creams and how it compares to my 1995 AEK II with dampened whites.

Shipping might be expensive if you’re outside the USA but this is a cheap AEK II:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/125792510239

... That is now no longer available. Mine. All mine.

Great... thanks...

There’s still another 1990 AEK II:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/125791229481

Get it while you can!

[Muirium]

Doesn't ship over here. I wouldn't start with a grotty one, anyway, certainly not as your first Alps experience. (Cue "I don't get you guys, whatever was all the fuss about?" if that was all the Alps you ever knew!)

[Maledicted]

Doesn't ship over here. I wouldn't start with a grotty one, anyway, certainly not as your first Alps experience. (Cue "I don't get you guys, whatever was all the fuss about?" if that was all the Alps you ever knew!)

Yup, if it isn't in decent shape and they never bother to wax boil, that's probably the beginning and end of the Alps adventure ... unfortunately.

[hellothere]

Did yours come with the manual, or did you read the images of it in the listing? Looks like the beeper can be turned on and off by pressing ctrl+speed. Maybe it just isn't on by default, which is probably a reasonable decision with white Alps in a chonky plastic case. lol

It had the same piece of paper as in the ad. I did test the ctrl+speed with my above mentioned cabling.

The paper does say something like, "To turn on the beeper (Option)." That makes me think a beeper was optional. As said, I haven't opened the case, but I doubt they made two different PCBs. The PCB probably at least has a header for a beeper. It's usually near the LED lock lights.

My hobby is repairing keyboards. I'm arguably halfway decent at doing so, but I'm fairly slow. If you want something, RSVP and I'll see what I can do.

[hellothere]

Shipping might be expensive if you’re outside the USA but this is a cheap AEK II:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/125792510239

... That is now no longer available. Mine. All mine.

Great... thanks...

It came in today. I did say that I took a bit of a risk because no switch pics usually = the least expensive switch listed for that keyboard in the Wiki.

My gamble paid off. Neon green Alps. First one I've ever had. Outstanding.

No, I'm kidding. While I have heard of and seen an Apple keyboard or two that came with factory-installed blue Alps -- or at least looked factory-installed -- the one I have is exactly as the Wiki said: salmon Alps. It feels pretty good and the case isn't as yellowed as it looks in the ad. I have to remove the caps to clean them and see what the mounting plate looks like. Rust means that I desolder the switches then sand it down and paint. I also want to make sure that there's nothing to short out the PCB before I plug it in.

Thanks again for posting the ebay ad.

[thefarside]

I have heard of and seen an Apple keyboard or two that came with factory-installed blue Alps -- or at least looked factory-installed

Interesting. What Apple keyboard had blue alps?

Thanks again for posting the ebay ad.

You’re welcome! I also bought one hoping for some cream alps. He just sent me an offer for another. Tempting but I’d rather see what the first one looks like (fingers crossed).

[hellothere]

I think it was an Apple Standard keyboard. I'm not sure if I saw it here or on ebay.

Something that is posted here, somewhere, is an AEK or AEKII with Alps that have dust-protection shrouds. Those are kinda cool, too.

Yes, I should post those in the Wiki when I run across them. I'm lazy.

[Polecat]

There were also some NOS Apple IIc replacement keyboards that showed up on ebay a couple years back with blue SKCM switches.

viewtopic.php?p=486598#p486598

[thefarside]

The AEK II arrived and it was a little dirty and yellowed, but the switches are in great shape. Dampened cream alps:

7B288D26-0C10-4CA2-B838-D5B6AEBDBF90.jpeg (2.59 MiB) Viewed 12549 times

They feel nice. Maybe a little nicer than my 1995 AEK II (hard to say).

My recommendation would be to buy a NOS vintage alps ($$$), new or NOS Matias ($$), or roll the dice with a used vintage alps ($) and restore it.

Don’t know if it’s luck but all my vintage Apple boards had switches in great shape, even the dirty ones. I wonder if they age better? All of my dirty Focus boards had scratchy, binding switches.

[Muirium]

Don’t know if it’s luck but …

It’s luck. My worst Alps were in AEKs (I’ve had 5 AEKs and II, I think) and my one and only Focus is a fine beast indeed.

You’d need a sample size of a thousand keyboards or so to conduct a scientific poll of the population. Just a handful won’t cut it.

Anyway, I’d defo stick with Alps over Matias. But my low opinion of their switches (feel and reliability) is well known already.

[thefarside]

You’d need a sample size of a thousand keyboards or so to conduct a scientific poll of the population. Just a handful won’t cut it.

I’m working on it! My sample size is two AEK IIs, an AEK I, and two M0116s, and I’ll settle for luck.

I’ve had terrible luck with Focus boards… I have a blue alps FK-555 that’s so dirty pressing a switch gets stuck down. I think the switches might be beyond a restoration but we’ll see.

Anyway, I’d defo stick with Alps over Matias. But my low opinion of their switches (feel and reliability) is well known already.

Matias do feel different and I think it’s mostly due to the tactile/click leaf. I compared a side profile of a blue alps click leaf to a Matias tactile leaf and noticed the tactile curve on the Matias is almost square where the alps has a rounded curve. I put the blue alps click leaf in the Matias switch and it sounded and felt great. Hope to do more evaluation soon.

[Maledicted]

I also have one Focus Alps board and it feels great, and one AEK II that needs a full teardown and wax.

Matias switches aren't quite as nice as complicated Alps, but they're not far behind and are still being mass produced for cheap. They resolved their reliability problems years ago but few have bothered to give them a chance since. I have more Matias boards than Ms or Fs and I have had no problems with them with heavy use (besides that ancient Tactile Pro with Forward switches I literally got to experiment with). They were all used boards before I even got them.

[AidanBd]

I've had pretty good luck with Alps boards with good condition switches, and found that if there's a little bit of dust and even dirt on the top housing it isn't a deal-breaker, but it is a gamble. Once that grime gets on the part of the slider that contacts the housing, then it's game over, your switch will feel like crap. I've had Alps boards that looked pretty rough but felt really good though. My AEK with Oranges is a little dirty, but they still feel really smooth and don't bind at all. I will say, they feel very similar to the Salmons in my mint AEK, and I'm sure that would not be the case if the Oranges were in slightly better condition. My IBM 5576 was even worse, it had small hairs (ew) all inside the chassis. But after spraying it out with compressed air, the SKCPs feel butter smooth still, except for F10 which sticks.

Only bad Alps board I have is my Bamboo Whites Omnikey 101. Got it in Cali, and there was actual sandy residue on the sliders. The worst switches I have ever felt.

[engr]

After experimenting with different sound-dampening materials in my Avant Prime, the best results so far have been from PE packing foam packed between PCB and caseback. I actually like it more than Sorbothane and neoprene. The foam dampens the high-frequency rattle and ping fairly well without muting the sound too much. However, I have read somewhere that just using packing foam inside the case may create issues with static electricity over time.

Thoughts?

[TNT]

Couldn't concentrate on the sound. The caps are too disctracting. Where did you get those?

In regards to the static buildup: Isn't there already a ground line connected to the PCB/plate inside the board?

[engr]

Couldn't concentrate on the sound. The caps are too disctracting. Where did you get those?

These are stickers, which is not an ideal solution, but better than nothing. One day I am hoping to get a nice set of PBT caps from Bigfoot or SGI Granite and have them dye-subbed.

If you just like the look and don't care about which languages the sublegends are in, Focus used to make Alps keycaps with really nice Chinese sublegends (which are unfortunately pad printed).

Isn't there already a ground line connected to the PCB/plate inside the board?

There is. However, I have heard somewhere (YouTube comments to some video?) that someone had issues resulting from static buildup from PE foam.

[thefarside]

Sounds excellent. No resonance at all. Is that white alps? Sounds nearly identical to my blue alps Omni Key 102, which has a small amount is ping/resonance. I’ll have to try some packing foam.