Scarpia wrote: ↑28 Mar 2023, 18:20
The comment about modelfkeyboards.com makes me wonder: has anyone tried fitting an F77 inner assembly inside an SSK case? If they fit, then making an FSSK becomes a much easier process!
Nope. At least there will be holes on top where Esc and F-keys are, plus you'll need to cut out the plastic above arrow cluster.. Plus FSSK backplate is hanging from the top corners of the lower half of the case, while in 4704 it rests on special side "borders" (so it's couple centimeters wider for the same key area). we_are_not_the_same.png
Scarpia wrote: ↑28 Mar 2023, 18:20
And before you comment about the $350 price tag of an F77: a sacrificial F XT will set you back $120-200 and the rest — metal plate, foam, PCB, controller, screws etc. — is another $94 if you’re lucky enough to get in on a Group Buy that sells you everything at no profit bundled nicely with just one shipping cost. Putting together an FSSK inner assembly from parts is going to cost at least $250, much more likely >$300. So you’d be paying an extra $50 or so for the convenience of not having to do the bending-screwing-praying part yourself.
It's not about "how much it costs on ebay" - it's about "how much it costs to make and what's a reasonable markup". Because current model F prices are purely because "you can't make new ones".
Just one example:
F122 Barrel weights 1700mg, (flipper is 400mg including the spring). ABS is ~$2k per _TON_ - so material cost per barrel is 0.34 _cents_. Labor including machine time - ok, let's generously assume 5 cents (because it's a small part, you can make 20/50 of those with single machine cycle). Rounding up, it's SIX CENTS to produce one barrel.
OK, OK, The Mold is $30k. Assuming it's class 103 (I don't think anybody here is rich enough for class 101) - it should last for 500k cycles. That's another 6 cents per cycle - so, depending on number of cavities, it's still likely less than 1 cent if fully amortized.
So, ok, 10 cents per barrel, all in all, @500k. List price? $1. Modest 1000% markup.
Or a break-even at 50k barrels. "$2.424.000" quoted on site means what, 6 thousand F77s? That's 462k barrels right there. Even if all of them are F62s - it's still 372k barrels, which makes it like 15 cents to produce? So, only 666% markup instead of full 1000%? Marx is spinning in his grave so fast he's producing a shockwave
Like, OK, I understand, S&H is a big part of that dollar. But dude, seriously, $2 per key makes TKL cost $175 - and that's without actual keycaps - which one can get from Unicomp for $20 a set, luckily. Don't get me started on $4/keycap, I don't even have a word for that. Calling that $1 "bulk price" is just adding insult to an injury.
Re: metal plate - it's only that expensive because it's a lot of 10. Setup, especially "made in USA" setup, is expensive, and it's one-time per lot. Otherwise, SSK-sized 1.2mm 304 stainless steel plate is ~$16@100 (that's about 60 kilograms total, btw, so shipping cost will be non-negligible - and also that makes it ~$25k per ton - so cutting is 92% of the cost, because 304 stainless 1.2mm stock is $2k/ton). At 100 copies Ponoko will definitely want less than $51 for it's trouble - should be closer to $35 (plus there are probably cheaper laser-cutting shops around - but it doesn't make much sense to look for those if you're making just 10 copies. Serious shops won't even talk to you for that quantity
).
Scarpia wrote: ↑28 Mar 2023, 18:20
If they fit, the real question is if @Ellipse would sell ‘bare’ inner F77 assemblies at a cost lower than $300? If so then it’s not just easier but cheaper too.
Even if they did - it would only make sense if you somehow have a case laying around already. Trying to obtain one will probably set you back same $100 or so
