Alps SKCM Brown and Alps in general

[phinix]

As I'm long time topre lover, I wanted to try those alps that everyone keep talking about
After going through lots of different MX switches and trying to find topre-like mx (and failed) I think its time to jump into that alps rabbit hole.
Our fellow member Scarpia here has seeded this idea/hunger for alps in my head, pointing me to browns as something close or maybe even better than my beloved 55g topre. He knows the stuff, but I said "maybe" as I'm still to find out by myself

Oh man, that sounds delish... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQLNyIYwGfs

I've seen some people having Frog TKL keyboard with alps switches/caps, apparently on Hiney H88C pcb - does it mean that regular mx pcb is ok for alps switches? I don't think so, but maybe its the plate is different?

Please drive me in to this subject, I would love to try and fall in love again:)
I saw some Dell AT101W keyboards with alps - it would be cool to have one with browns. Or am I still "green" in this subject and should learn more?

[amigastar23]

Doesn't the Dell AT101W have Black Alps?
I have a Dell AT102W and it has Black Alps, which are fine for gaming i must say. They are tactile.
But you can mod the Black Alps into linear Switches which are ideal for gaming.

[phinix]

Doesn't the Dell AT101W have Black Alps?
I have a Dell AT102W and it has Black Alps, which are fine for gaming i must say. They are tactile.
But you can mod the Black Alps into linear Switches which are ideal for gaming.

I think someone modded it with browns, instead of blacks.

[Maledicted]

Early AT101s had salmon Alps. Black Alps are polarizing as most have a later revision tactile leaf and people tend to linearize them. If you want undampened tactile Alps, you might be best off just finding a cheap AEK with salmon or orange Alps as salmons are still well-regarded and plentiful. The early AT101s aren't common and they sell for too much.

I don't really care too much about tactiles, so I don't get into the weeds about the different variants. I do like just about all tactile Alps I have tried (including Matias) much more than other tactiles I have tried besides Topre and Niz, since they're too different to really compare head-to-head objectively anyway. I do happen to have an SKCM brown board and I would say that the tactile event itself is definitely comparable to Topre, minus the distinct characteristics of a rubber dome.

Their force curves seem to bear this out as well. I just compared against 55g Topre on a hunch because they seemed pretty comparable just from memory.

55g topre vs skcm brown.png (34.11 KiB) Viewed 10893 times

Later tactile Alps have sharper curves.

55g topre vs skcm tactiles.png (73.75 KiB) Viewed 10893 times

I actually prefer that since it makes them a little more unique, but to each their own.

Alps switches are not compatible with regular MX boards or plates, and very few commercial plates that aren't some kind of ergo abomination or 60% support Alps switches.

[phinix]

I know alps are very rare, but in this case, how can I equire alps switches and mount them on custom pcbs?
Would I need to desolder it from some old keyboards?
Sounds like I need to look into custom pcbs for modern keyboards like that Frog or similar...
What models are OEM brown alps keyboards?

Why do we have 1000s of mx switches, but nobody is re-doing alps nowadays?

[Scarpia]

Matias makes a clone of the “simplified” Alps switch, though most (all) enthusiasts would say that the simplified Alps were far inferior to the “complicated” Alps of the SKCM/SKCL series, and the Matias switches are plasticy and a poor substitute for vintage Alps.

So yes, desolder or buy them from someone who already desoldered them.

[amigastar23]

Matias makes a clone of the “simplified” Alps switch, though most (all) enthusiasts would say that the simplified Alps were far inferior to the “complicated” Alps of the SKCM/SKCL series, and the Matias switches are plasticy and a poor substitute for vintage Alps.

So yes, desolder or buy them from someone who already desoldered them.

I have a Matias Tactile Pro and the switches sound a little bit hollow compared to SKCM White Alps. I've wrote Matias an email explaining that a clone of Blue Alps would find big appeal in the keyboard community. They've answered me that they understand that.

[Maledicted]

I know alps are very rare, but in this case, how can I equire alps switches and mount them on custom pcbs?
Would I need to desolder it from some old keyboards?
Sounds like I need to look into custom pcbs for modern keyboards like that Frog or similar...
What models are OEM brown alps keyboards?

Why do we have 1000s of mx switches, but nobody is re-doing alps nowadays?

There is a list of SKCM brown boards on the Deskthority wiki. There's no way any list could be complete however. They were the earliest and I believe they are the most uncommon. I would post the list, but I do not support harvesting and urge you to at least re-use the board or give it to someone who will if you do.

Loose switches are sold in various places, though they're usually desoldered and not NOS. I have only bought some off of Ebay. They'll typically cost more there than alternative direct sources in Asia. Alps switches that are even slightly dirty visibly can turn out to feel and sound terrible. Dirt and dust is their Achilles heel. Wax modding bad switches can help restore them.

Maybe I'm just nuts, or maybe Matias switches have just changed that much since they became every elitist's whipping boy for their then-deserved reputation for unreliability, but I disagree with the general consensus. Every switch type they make is great, better than everything else made today (without comparing directly to capacitive domes) besides maybe Zeal's Clickiez. They're not quite as nice as complicated Alps, but they're still great switches ... and they're cheap, and in mass production right now instead of being a finite resource. I can use them interchangeably with all of the titans of keyboard history.

[hellothere]

I've seen some people having Frog TKL keyboard with alps switches/caps, apparently on Hiney H88C pcb - does it mean that regular mx pcb is ok for alps switches? I don't think so, but maybe its the plate is different?

Alps uses a different PCB. There are 3rd party Alps PCBs out there, though.

If you don't mind trading tactile with clicky, I think that the amber Omron switches feel very much like brown SKCM Alps. Your mileage may vary.

[Scarpia]

Amber Omrons (“Omnoms” among friends) are gloriously clicky, it’s true - if you like a pronounced and somewhat heavy tactile event (a la brown Alps) then Omnoms are one of the most satisfying clickies in both keyfeel and sound (in fact, in my opinion, until Kailh box switches with click bars came out, nothing in the MX world could rival the click of an Omnom)! However, from what I’ve heard they have a reputation for being unreliable due to corrosion or other degradation of the internal parts - and I don’t think (though I may be wrong) that they fit in Alps plates so building with Omnoms may require even more custom work than building with Alps.

[phinix]

What about orange alps?
Are they tactile or clicky?
Good, compared to browns?

[Delta Research]

Orange and brown alps are quite different, both are tactile but the tactile bump of oranges is smaller than browns. The bump of browns lasts almost through the entire keystroke while oranges have a little pre and post travel after the bump. Personally, I prefer them to browns but it's up to preference.

[Maledicted]

There was a conversation about this recently on the Discord as well. Brown Alps and 55g Topre are so similar outside of the distinct characteristics of a rubber dome, there's basically no reason to get brown Alps if you already have a 55g Topre board.

Topre is in mass production right now, with a robust aftermarket and has none of the reliability/consistency, compatibility or scarcity issues associated with hunting down scarce 30+-year-old switches or boards.

All of the other tactile Alps feel totally different from Topre and are cheaper and easier to source.

canvas.png (78.48 KiB) Viewed 10248 times

[Scarpia]

Keyfeel wise, Topres and browns are very similar, with a bit of mushiness on the Topre side that you don’t get with the Alps.

Other differences: availability of course, but also sound, longevity, keycap options, feasibility and complexity of using them in custom builds, and “Hey look at me” factor.

If these were the only two options, Brown Alps would keep their place in my collection and esteem, but given that excellent tactile switches now - finally - exist with MX mount, the once-unrivaled brown Alps has to compete with nearly-as-good keyfeel combined with low prices, equal or better sound (given the right case etc.), unlimited customisation options, better stabilization, and in-stock availability.

I mourn my brown Alps, for they have been dethroned.

[Muirium]

I mourn my brown Alps, for they have been dethroned.

By who? Just out of interest. I find the new lands of MX clonedom unfathomable… due to my laziness!

[Scarpia]

By who? Just out of interest. I find the new lands of MX clonedom unfathomable… due to my laziness!

I had been hearing all the hype around Holy Pandas and I tested a colleague’s board with Gazzew Boba U4Ts, so I knew I had to update my switch collection; so I did, and blind tested a bunch of tactile switches, and found three genuinely excellent ones:

• Tecsee Purple Panda
• Durock Anubis
• Gazzew Boba U4T

Notable mention: Durock Koala.

Plus the T1 Shrimp if what you want is a silent tactile switch.

I suspect that the Boba U4Tx is actually an even better version of the U4T (it silences the upstroke), but I don’t have any so it’s guesswork.

[phinix]

I have a feeling that my next tactile switch I will use will be that Gazzew Boba U4T.
I prefer big rounded bump on top and sounds like that one has it.
Just waiting for stock to come in UK (I want 68g black version). And I wont lube them, as Gazzew suggested.

I was intrigued by ZealPC Clickiez being "similar" to alps, but it looks like they are not, so I would be better with U4Ts I guess.

Oooh, I have a great idea, lets make hotswap alps pcb! Unless there is one already? That would be something...
Can you solder mil max tubes for alps? would that work?

[Delta Research]

The Clickiez have a similar mechanism to Alps, but the tactility is far too great and doesn't really compare that well to Alps.

If I remember correctly there was a possible group buy for Kailh manufactured Alps hot swap sockets, but that would need a completely new design as the hot swap socket footprints are different from solder ones. I think there was a compatible mill-max socket that fits Alps pins, but I think slightly enlarging the hole with a drill was required.

[phinix]

Hmmm... mill-max would be something, yeah.

Are there any modern 65% PCBs that take alps?
I would love to build one - I'm a TKL man, but 65% would be a compromise, as long as I could find caps for it...
I found Lunar AEK 65%...

I saw 60% custom pcbs like for Fjell...
TKL is here too.

[phinix]

Maybe I should try those clicky alps as well?

[engr]

Are there any modern 65% PCBs that take alps?
I would love to build one - I'm a TKL man, but 65% would be a compromise, as long as I could find caps for it...
I found Lunar AEK 65%...

You can get a KBParadise V80 board, it's a TKL that normally comes with Matias or Fuhua, but you can solder Alps into it (or maybe email KBParadise and ask for a barebones kit). Or you can get a standalone TKL PCB for Alps...

Keycaps are not a problem now that Tai-Hao has these sets for Alps. Or you can get vintage ones.

Everyone is into smaller keyboards nowadays, getting a TKL or a 60% board and plate is not an issue. OTOH, if you want a proper size board, your options are very limited.

[engr]

Maybe I should try those clicky alps as well?

If you would like to try clicky Alps, I would suggest trying these three varieties in that order:

- Matias clicky white switches
- Alps SKCM white - "pine" generation (with slits in top housing)
- Alps SKCM blue

Matias clicky whites are inexpensive and easy to find, and you can get them in a new keyboard (like the above-mentioned KBParadise - here's an open box one for $40, albeit with Matias quiet clickies). Alps SKCM "pine" white are fairly easy to find in a "new old stock" condition, aren't particularly expensive, and feel and sound fairly close to Alps SKCM blues. Finally, the blue Alps are the most expensive and hardest to find in good condition on a keyboard with modern layout.

If you like Matias clickies or/and "pine" white Alps, you will probably like blue Alps even more. If you don't, then there is no sense spending more money (there is a big price jump from white to blue Alps).

I would stay away from "bamboo" SKCM white Alps, SKBM Alps, and various clicky Alps clones, unless you have a chance to get a keyboard with them for cheap in a very good condition. They don't feel all that great IMO.

[Scarpia]

Um… where are these easy-to-find NOS SKCM White boards again?

[-Space-NATO-]

Um… where are these easy-to-find NOS SKCM White boards again?

wiki/Alps_SKCM_White

[engr]

Um… where are these easy-to-find NOS SKCM White boards again?

Note I said fairly easy They appear on eBay and r/mechmarket fairly regularly, there's one here right now. I've also seen several NOS Ortek boards with SKCM whites on eBay within the last few months.
Or you can buy any Alps-mount board and solder in a bunch of NOS white switches in bulk on eBay or elsewhere (I've bought from both of these sellers, they are legitimate). I ended up soldering them into a NIB FK-2001 (which originally had Alps clones) and an Ortek MCK-142 (which had SKBM whites).

[phinix]

OK, I have to somehow grab browns.
Just watched Chyro's review here and love the idea of rounded bump of browns.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffrpY9AQcqs

mmmm....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWjBT0MZBE0&t=38s

[Scarpia]

I can relate maybe see if you can get one or two loose switches first, just so you don’t invest $300 in an old board you end up not loving. There’s often some kicking around on eBay

[phinix]

I can relate maybe see if you can get one or two loose switches first, just so you don’t invest $300 in an old board you end up not loving. There’s often some kicking around on eBay

Yeah, trying to find some...

[guidemetothelight]

OK, I have to somehow grab browns.

i pulled the trigger on a IBM 5140 Module , and holy sh*t , its amazing. Bought a Frog Mini to go along with it and also a custom plate for it from Karolus.
His Builds are pure art:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhs5sLXpKQQ

really excited how it turns out. Just need to source a pcb for it

[Muirium]

Oh you bastard!