New Model M vs Old IBM Model M

[JCMax]

I postponed getting a Unicomp Model M because of the mixed reviews people had about them. Especially how cheap and flimsy everybody said it felt compared to the oldie-but-goldie IBM's. I only got the New Model M after so many people were giving it more favorable reviews. It seemed like Unicomp were at least getting closer to the quality of the IBM's. But just how close are they, really?

One guy I met typed on mine and I asked him how it felt. He said it was "comparable."

So what do you guys who have tried both think?

Is the New Model M as good as the IBM original?

[Go-Kart]

It depends on which generation of "Original M" when comparing build quality. As you may be aware, the older, the more robust. I'd argue that any M, new or old, is still built to a high standard when compared to most other modern mass production keyboards.

The only thing that I'd point to as being worthy of consideration when deciding to purchase new or old is key feel. Unicomp's stems feature a shallower fork that changes the bottom out feel, increasing the force at the end of the travel. Depending on whether you already feel that M switch weighting is too heavy or not, this may inform you one way or the other. This could be rectified by putting OG IBM caps on a Unicomp.

How much stock you place in sound would be another consideration as differences in build does impact the sound; but again, like the build quality arguement, all Ms deliver a great M sound, a tier above most modern keyboards, IMO.

[thefarside]

There are clearly differences between the two, but I think the build quality of the new Model M is good and on par with the old. For instance I accidentally dropped my new model M onto a solid tile floor, hitting a corner of the case and it didn’t even leave a scratch, and when shipping my 1989 model M to clickykeyboards.com UPS didn’t tape the box and the case was completely destroyed along with some keys. Not a direct comparison but I think they are at least as durable.

The sound and feel are slightly different and there are so many factors there, but it really boils down to personal preference. Every part is different and the New Model M doesn’t have decades of age and use. Someone compared a new old stock IBM Model M to the Unicomp Classic or Ultra Classic and had good opinions of it:

https://youtu.be/BvWrPG7LK34

I have a 1989 Model M that’s bolt modded and love it. It sounds and feels different than my New Model M, but I regularly switch between the two - especially when I want windows keys.

The New Model M feels more “crisp”, maybe a little heavier key feel and possibly a deeper sound, but definitely not worse.

[Tribal]

I’ve tried at least a dozen old IBM Model Ms (none bolt-modded) and none were as good as my Mini M.

My Mini M has crisper keys, a better color scheme, a dedicated Windows key where I expect it, native USB, and it’s much cheaper in TKL format. Most of these things can be kludged on an original, but it’s going to be expensive and still just a work-around.

The original PVC cases feel better to me, and coiled shiny black AT cables are impressive, but the new ones are fine and probably more functional. You’d think the old keyboards would garner some kind of retro appreciation but all my co-workers thought it was literal trash.

I would love to have been able to say that the original classic is better. For me, who wants a high-quality plug-and-play keyboard to type emails and documents, it just isn’t.

[Bjerrk]

I haven't tried the New Model M, but I have some thoughts on Unicomp's keyboards vs. IBM's.
Unicomp had some bad years, quality assurance-wise. No question about that. They've since sprung back, so let's put those years aside.

The Unicomp Model M's of recent years can definitely compete with the IBM Model M's. Either has some advantages over the other: I find that the IBM keyboards sound a bit better (softer, deeper sound), but that the Unicomp Model Ms have a crisper keyfeel. Those differences can largely be ascribed to the different "blankets" used in the keyboards, I believe. Unicomp uses a very thin rubber mat while IBM used a thicker more textile-y one.

It also used to be (pre-New Model M) that Unicomp's keyboard chassis were not as thick and sturdy as the IBM ones, but it seems that the New Model M has largely remedied that(?)

One thing I'd miss with the recent Unicomps, though: The classic colour scheme. I find it far prettier than the black/grey thing they go for nowadays. But apparently tastes vary

[fohat]

a dedicated Windows key where I expect it, native USB, and it’s much cheaper

coiled shiny black AT cables are impressive

Those are the real advantages, along with support and a warranty.

I hate coiled cables and I think that those shiny black ones were the worst, besides the fact that most of them are deteriorating by now.

The classic colour scheme.

Without a doubt. Beige/pearl/pebble is the elegant classic.

[thefarside]

I just checked and it looks like Unicomp still sells the classic and ultra classic models in the original colors, although there’s a message recommending the new model m and says it’s a better product
https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/Classic

[Lucent Win]

Why compare a single model of Unicomp to the entirety of IBM's offerings? IBM made Ms with constant changes according to financial and market needs. If you count a Lexmark as an IBM like I do, what's the different between a 1997 Lexmark and a 2000 Unicomp? (Genuinely curious here. I have the second but not the first.)
That being said I will compare my New Model M to my 88' 122 for you. The new one feels less 'soft' and sounds very consistent. It also pings less. The new M's build quality is equal IMO; they both laugh at drops but suffer from rivets. If you need to use it in a wood shop or something you can always order the keyboard condom (not available in ISO).

One of the downsides is my New Model M has 'adventurous' letter alignment: about 2mm variation on the x and y. Three or so keys had scratchiness and terrible binding. The worst thing is every owner is required by the natural order to purchase another lock light sticker and cram it over those blue lights!

Then again, I got to order a Spanish layout for my new M, something very hard to get second hand. When you order there are key color options, space bar length options, a warranty, its not beige, PS/2 or USB...

TL;DR a New Model M is on all practical levels better than an IBM. There are subtle differences in feel and sound but they're all so minor only we'd really care. Have you or your friend ever typed on a Wheelwriter? That is a very different M.

[JCMax]

I love it! It sounds like the New Model M IS a worthy successor to the old. I remember first getting it and typing on those keys and I felt like a kid on Christmas. I couldn't imagine how much better a keyboard could feel.

For the most part it seems to me like it is boiling down to an apples-to-oranges type comparison. Which is fine. I'm just glad the New Model M has the praise that it does.

If I ever do IBM Model M old stock, would you say the older the better quality? I would still use my New Model M over it due to the Windows keys. But I would love to see how the best of the Old Model M's would compare.

[Palatino]

I just checked and it looks like Unicomp still sells the classic and ultra classic models in the original colors, although there’s a message recommending the new model m and says it’s a better product
https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/Classic

Heh yes that message of theirs did amuse me. I much prefer the classic look, and I, the customer, will judge which is the better product, thank you very much!

[Palatino]

If I ever do IBM Model M old stock, would you say the older the better quality? I would still use my New Model M over it due to the Windows keys. But I would love to see how the best of the Old Model M's would compare.

Depends what you mean by quality. If you’re after more weight, older = heavier. But if you mean quality of key feel, it’s down to how the rivets have fared.

[Muirium]

Aye. Every Model M I've had (and I still have 3, all SSKs) vary wildly. They may look like tanks, but they're not made for the ages, at all. Nothing a tremendous amount of bolt/screw mod work can't fix, but hardly befitting their post-apocalyptic survivals reputation.

The same, of course, also applies to Unicomps. Plastic rivets are made to fail.

[JCMax]

What are some good tutorials on how to do bolt mods?

[Muirium]

Use your search engine of choice. Watch a few vids. You’ll get the idea. There are several techniques. The one I tried way back in the day was much too much effort in retrospect. Though everyone said it was easy at the time.

[fohat]

I learned the Sandy55 method a decade ago and it works well.

Like many fussy procedures it seems impossibly cumbersome at first but quickly gets much easier. After about 3 it is not that big of a deal, and now that I have done at least a dozen it is pretty perfunctory - to the point that I consider it standard procedure for any Model M that I care about and/or plan to keep. Just don't expect to receive a premium price return if you sell it.

One piece of advice though: getting the entire board back together with every part in its proper place can be tricky. Don't have a nervous breakdown if you have to take it apart and re-seat everything - perhaps multiple times. That is just part of the process. I get pretty irritated if I don't get it after about 3 goes, but don't despair.

[sharktastica]

I much prefer the classic look, and I, the customer, will judge which is the better product, thank you very much!

I'm pretty sure it's in reference to the Classic (and Ultra Classic/SpaceSaver/EnduraPro) mould degradation.

What are some good tutorials on how to do bolt mods?

Here's a good photo tutorial on Model M restoration in general (including bolt/screw modding): https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipO ... ZtaFBqanN3.

[Go-Kart]

What are some good tutorials on how to do bolt mods?

Having recently decided to bolt mod a beat-up M myself, I'd say that the screw mod is way easier if you're at all a challenged individual, like myself. Much less hassle. There is an Ultimate M Resto guide here. I found it very helpful. Shows you various options for M modification.

[Rabbit.Q1]

I've never tried the original IBM Model M keyboard, but heres my take:

I don't know if this helps, but remember that unicomp sells 2 different types of model m's. One is "classic" edition, where there are 2 layer of keycaps, and the other is newer model m's.

In my experience the classic model m feels great and sturdy.
The new model m has a sound and feel close to the classic-but its not 100%. In fact the newer model m spacesaver seems to feel closest to the classic believe it or not.

[dfischer429]

One thing I'd miss with the recent Unicomps, though: The classic colour scheme. I find it far prettier than the black/grey thing they go for nowadays. But apparently tastes vary

It kind of blows my mind that Unicomp doesn't do their SSK in Industrial Gray with blue keys. There are probably tons of people like me who will never be willing to spend the money an original industrial SSK costs but would drop a couple hundred bucks for a clone in a heartbeat. I really hate Unicomp's black/white/gray color scheme.

[fohat]

What are some good tutorials on how to do bolt mods?

There is an Ultimate M Resto guide here. I found it very helpful.

That is a good and comprehensive guide, but there are a few comments that I would make.

Cutting rivet heads and preparing the shafts can be a lot cleaner and easier than what he shows, and looking and working better too. Instead of using a chisel, use chisel tips in your Xacto knife. Use an old one for shaving off the rivet heads (such as the "good" one from last time) and after the plates are separated use the good new Xacto tip to shave and clean up the tops of the shafts to make flat "mesas" - leaving as much of the shafts as long as possible. Those shafts, like the "crescents" are alignment structures and keep everything exactly where it needs to be.

And don't use a soldering iron to melt out random craters of plastic, that is crude and messy. If the tops of the shafts are clean and flat then you can use the tiniest spherical burr tip on your rotary tool to make a very small crater to keep your drill bit from walking. As for bits, in the dreaded Imperial system, the 1/16" bit is just a hair larger than 1.5mm and works great whether you are doing a "screw" or a "bolt" mod. A 2mm machine screw will cut its way through in either case, and that is what I suggest. And I do bolt mods with the screw heads under the keys and the nuts on the back (bottom) side.

Speaking of Imperial measure, I saw that the author made a snide comment about the Imperial equivalent of a 5.5mm socket, and I thought "that can't be right, the numerator of that fraction can't be an even number" but then I realized that he was just being a twat and making up something that looked absurd and insulted Imperial measure. The fact is, the hex head is actually a 7/32" and a 5.5mm socket is just very close and works properly. And, whether it is a 7/32" or 5.5mm socket, be sure to find one that is "long" and "thin-walled" if you can't get a nut driver.

[stormcrash]

The IBM branded Model M boards can vary quite a bit by new old stock or used, or date/location of manufacture. Shelby of Tech Tangents on YouTube found a Unicomp classic to feel comparable to a NOS IBM board and much crisper than a worn IBM board he had at home. I have one new Lexmark made IBM board that feels wonderful but a Greenock Scotland IBM board that feels worse than and Unicomp I've ever used.

The biggest dips in quality unicomp had seemed to all be around the printing and finish on the plastic compared to any key feel (beyond some not liking it compared to specific IBM boards, many of which had seen decades of break in) but between the New/Mini M being built with all new tooling and a lot of recalibrations and updating to the existing tooling (fixed the keycap printing machine, classic chassis flex was fixed, and some keycap molds have been retooled) the quality of fit and finish is up across the board on current Unicomp production

I love Unicomp and daily use one at home and at work (I have an office with a door I can shut). Just want the New/Mini to be made in the classic Pearl white color so I can scoop them up

[Samir]

Very late to the party--but since I have more than dozen Ms and a few Unicomps and nearly 30 years typing on them hopefully what I have to add here is of value.

All Ms in all variants have some sort of difference that you can feel if you're looking for it. I've literally felt the difference between our original that we got with our PS/2 30-286 back in the day, and the white and blue labels by Lexmark, IBM, SSK, GE medical, etc. And there is a difference between my Unicomps as well that is more pronounced between their different case designs. And this is even with broken rivets which imo I can't feel at any point on any of them since they work perfectly fine.

However, this being said the difference is at most 1-2%, and only if you're really looking for it, and over time becomes zero as your hands get adjusted to the slightly different feel from another buckling spring board. If you've never had a buckling spring, you will never even notice. I only noticed because I have workstations side by side with Ms on them and at one point I was actively trying to see if there was a difference in feel and noticed one--noticed it for a split second before I could care less since the buckling spring feel that my hands love is 100% still present.

I have not yet tried a newer Unicomp and to be honest probably won't unless it's in a 101 key format because I hate the windows and other misc keys--I'm a bit of a purist in that sense, but probably moreso because that's the layout my hands started typing on in 1989 so that's what they like.

So tl;dr--ime, the two extremes in feel are the unicomps from a few years ago (decades?) and the metal badge M. And I think that the new Unicomps should be somewhere in the middle of these two extremes. But what one has to keep in mind is that any M, as long as it is in working condition (even with broken rivets), will have a buckling spring feel that will be 100% in terms of what a buckling spring M is all about, even if it does differ when you use another one.

This post was started on a Model M white badge, continued on a cherry blue board, continued on a LG Gram keyboard, and finished on a Unicomp 101.

[Muirium]

This post was started on a Model M white badge, continued on a cherry blue board, continued on a LG Gram keyboard, and finished on a Unicomp 101.

On purpose?

[thefarside]

I’ve wondered if the reason the older Ms feel nicer is due to years of use, loosening up the tension in the springs. Samir, was your 1-2% difference for just new keyboards or all types?

[Samir]

This post was started on a Model M white badge, continued on a cherry blue board, continued on a LG Gram keyboard, and finished on a Unicomp 101.

On purpose?

Kind of. I have different workstations I'm at when working depending on where I am. And not all of them have Ms (well, all of them do except two that have cherry blue boards that my hands like as much as Ms). So I started the post at one place and bounced to 3 others before I finished it.

[Samir]

I’ve wondered if the reason the older Ms feel nicer is due to years of use, loosening up the tension in the springs. Samir, was your 1-2% difference for just new keyboards or all types?

I don't think there is any 'loosening up on the tension in the springs' unless it is because of rivet failure. By definition if a spring is correctly chosen for an application, it will not lose its properties with regular use or over time, and I think that's one of the reasons these keyboards still feel very good after decades of use or even just sitting pretty.

I have not purchased a new M in forever. Our original M came on our PS/2 30-286 in 1989 and that was probably as new as my hands ever felt. Oh wait, there is the one 'options by IBM' M that we purchased for our cyrix p166 build back in 1994/5, but except for the changes we noticed between the PS/2 with the sdl cable, it was the same M feel we wanted. All the other boards I've purchased have been used in various states of use or unknown history. The unicomps have all been used, although I know the black one I set up for my dad's workstation had very little use from the seller as they bought it and just didn't like it so it sat. I got a set of 'high visibility' keycaps from unicomp for it and for my mom's M and that is what they used for the rest of their lives.

So the difference is across all Ms, new or old. I think the best test someone could do today that would reiterate my experience is to purchase 2+ boards from unicomp and then literally do a 'blind taste test' on them and see if one can discern one from the other. One might, but that variance should be so minuscule compared to the 100% authentic buckling spring feeling one's hands are getting.

[apastuszak]

I think the New Model M is a step from the Unicomp Clasic. The build quality is better, and it has new molds.

One plus for me of a Unicomp board over old IBM/Lexmark Model M is that the Unicomp boards have Windows/Super/Command keys. They are also USB out of the box.

And if you buy a New Model M now, you will get their new RPI2040 based controller, which you can flash with QMK/VIAL, so no more need for a Soarer's Comverter.

[Samir]

I think the New Model M is a step from the Unicomp Clasic. The build quality is better, and it has new molds.

One plus for me of a Unicomp board over old IBM/Lexmark Model M is that the Unicomp boards have Windows/Super/Command keys. They are also USB out of the box.

And if you buy a New Model M now, you will get their new RPI2040 based controller, which you can flash with QMK/VIAL, so no more need for a Soarer's Comverter.

I really would like to try one of the newest ones, but I know it would just sit or one of my other boards would just sit so it would be a waste of money. What amazes me though is that the original M is still by far the best quality even after over 30 years, and it's every single board that was made too, not just some of them or a select serial number range. Just amazing quality that was built far beyond its imagined use.

The extra keys are a pita for me and the usb makes no difference since I have all sorts of converters that work fine. Same for the programability since I'm never leaving a 101 layout, haha.

[kbdfr]

[…] the original M is still by far the best quality […]

Ahem…

[Muirium]

To be fair, the thread title is "New Model M vs Old IBM Model M", not "Best Keyboard Ever", which very clearly neither of them is!