IBM Model F with Nordic layout (Danish)

[Spinachi]

Hey guys,

So... I'm pretty new to this whole keyboard thing. It only became a hobby about a month ago, but I've fallen in love with keyboards. I don't honestly know what is drawing me towards them, but I do spend a considerable amount of time in front of the computer as I have a CS degree and pretty much sit in front of a computer programming all day at work. I still have a lot to learn about keyboards that's for sure.

So far I have the following keyboards:
- Das Keyboard Professional 6 (got this before my keyboard hobby or "obsession" started - mostly for the look and volume knob).

- Keychron K8 Pro with red switches (I never thought I'd enjoy red switches, but I do kind of like them + it's my first hot swappable keyboard!)

- Keychron K10 Pro with brown switches. I've bought around 10 artisan keycaps + two double-shot PBT keycap sets that I've mixed to create a unique keyboard. This is without a doubt my favorite keyboard so far. I plan on replacing the switches with Kailh box jades or classic cherry mx blues.

- Mountain Everest Max. I bought this mostly due to the portable numpad with top buttons similar to a stream deck, which can display program icons. It also has an add-on with media keys and a volume knob that also has a display. I bought this mostly because I found it to be interesting and I love the novelty of the add-on media buttons with the display.

- HIGROUND x Street Fighter Base 65 Keyboard - Akuma (Monochrome) - Limited Edition. I only bought this because I like the look and I'm a huge fan of Street Fighter.

Now to get to the point... A lot of people like linear switches such as the reds or silent switches either due to quick activation or the lack of sound. I'm basically at the other end of the spectrum. I like loud. I've done some research and concluded that my next keyboard should be the IBM Model F because I've heard that their switches are as loud as can be + its build quality is really good. I also kind of want a keyboard with ALPS SKCL/SKCM switches, but honestly I see more offers for IBM Model F than keyboards with those ALPS switches. I tried looking into buying a Unicomp "New Model M", but with the price I'd have to pay for shipping from US to Europe + import tax + the price of the keyboard itself I'd end up paying almost $400 USD for a $140 keyboard, which I found a little over the top. They have a UK reseller, but it's not any better. It still ends up being very expensive.

Does anyone in Europe have an IBM Model F with the nordic layout (the Danish one) who is willing to sell it to me?

Cheers.

[Muirium]

What makes you hanker after the loudest and greatest of all clicks now? Your initial focus on reds and browns warns me you BETTER KNOW WHAT YOUR IN FOR! The first time you meet Model F will be an eye opener!

[Spinachi]

I want to be a nuisance to others in the office.

Nah I'm just kidding. I didn't really have a preference starting out (bought the Das keyboard for the look and the knob, so I didn't really care that much about the switch as I wasn't invested in keyboards like I am now), but then I bought the keyboards with browns and reds. While they are nice, it made me realize that I crave the "thock" or "clack". I guess loud clacky sounds are just way more soothing to me than their more silent counterparts. Don't get me wrong though, I like the reds/browns as well.

Something else is that I guess I'm used to a high activation force (if that's what it's called). Basically on my keyboard with blue switches I've gotten used to kind of resting my hand on my keyboard as I'm typing. If I do the same with my reds or browns, I accidentally press all kinds of buttons LOL. It's just a matter of getting used to different switches.

I hope I can get my hands on a model F because holy shit... I've watched a ton of YouTube videos of both the M and F models and honestly they both sound so amazing. I can only imagine what it's like to actually type on them. I also wanted to buy the keyboard shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqD_6bocS_c

However that keyboard has a minimum cost of 1171€, which I can't really justify spending on a keyboard - no matter how good it sounds.

I'm doing a little (sort of dumb) experiment on the side and bought 117 different switches that I intend to put on an inexpensive "tester" board. 1 key = 1 switch. I want to see what that sounds like and I could use it as a test board for future purchases. I know, I know... It's a little out there but switches are surprisingly cheap so I thought why not?

[genericusername57]

Disclaimer: This is going to be guesswork from me.

If you are looking for a genuine IBM Model F with a danish layout I think you might be looking for something slightly rare, and for that reason slightly expensive. Also keep in mind that a Model F doesn't necessarily have a very modern key layout depending on which variation you get your hands on.

You do have Ellipse's Model F reproductions that might be easier to find. You could get one new as well, but the price is not going to be any less than getting one from Unicomp as the same issues with shipping and tax applies. However I would guess (having never tried a Unicomp Model M) that his Model F's have a higher build quality.

But regardless of all that, another alternative you could consider is getting a genuine Model F with an US layout (should be a bit easier, I GUESS) and then find danish keycaps to put on it. The keycaps are compatible across Model F to Model M to the reproductions, correct me if I'm wrong someone. Shipping for a set of keycaps from Unicomp is likely not going to be too bad, even from the US.

Getting your hands on Alps switches also isn't so impossible. Maybe not a very high quality entire old keyboard of them (they tend to be pretty pricey), but if you want to get a taste of the clicky Alps experience you can always find a Dell AT102W for cheap and click mod the switches. It's not exactly the same as e.g. Blue Alps, but it's not completely far off either.

I can also second that you might be in for a surprise just how loud a Model F is. A Cherry MX Blue keyboard can be considered silent in comparison. You can always do the floss mod to remove the pinging, but if you keep it in it's full pingy glory we're not just talking about bothering the people around you, you're going to bother the people in the next room as well. Or enrich their lives, depending on their opinions about loud keyboards I guess.

[Muirium]

Testing switches is a good idea. If hotswap was a thing 10 years ago, when I was where you are now, I'd have definitely tried it. Mind, all there was back then were the various shades of MX. I was a bit early for all that stuff.

I've had quite a few Model Fs and Ms. I’m very much on the F >> M end of the "how do they compare?" spectrum. Model M is only about half-way from MX blue to Model F, to me. The boards I've kept align with this strong, revealed preference. My only remaining Ms are a NIB SSK and the loosey-goosey SSK I set aside to convert into an F with the TS kit. The Model M / SSK layout is killer, but F kills harder still.

No, an F is the board for life.

[Spinachi]

You're right, I don't know why I didn't think of that. I have seen several IBM Model Ms with the Danish layout being sold for just $100, which seems like a fair price. If i could get my hands on an American or British Model F (should be way easier than one with a Danish layout) then I could switch out the keys. That's actually a really, really good idea. Thank you.

As for the ALPS, I think I'll put that on hold for now, but thank you for the advice regardless.

[Spinachi]

It shouldn't be impossible to get one with a Danish layout either, I've seen multiple threads on here with exactly that. Example: viewtopic.php?t=6185

I hope a Dane sees this and can help me. 🥹🥹

[Muirium]

Peter was active here many years ago, and vanished without a trace, leaving customers without their stuff as I recall.

Anyway, yes, you can definitely mix and match M and F caps: including Ellipse's creations, which are significantly better than Unicomp's modern production quality. Single unit alphanumeric keys are ideal for swapping around as IBM made them all the same row profile. Things get complex quickly when you move beyond the alphas, though. The most available IBM-original Fs are Model F XT, which, as you've seen, has an awkward layout, whatever language it is:



I'd steer clear of Unicomp if I were you. The original hardware is much better, even the caps. Ellipse does a better job than they do, but IBM did better still.

[Spinachi]

Yikes. What a layout! Seems like a waste of space to have a long piece of plastic and then only utilize the middle part of it for the actual key.

It's a shame about Peter. Not cool ditching customers, but who knows something might've happened to him.

Anyway, I'll let this thread "marinate" a bit, but if a couple months pass without an original Model F with Danish layout, I'll just switch out the keys from a Model M as you guys suggest.

[Muirium]

Good idea.

In the meantime, a recent acquisition of mine—the Kailh Box White switch-equipped 8BitDo retro keyboard—is my tip for a taste of sincerely clicky action for a very fair price. It's my first Kailh board and even as a Model F snob I find its switches quite commendable. It's closer to blue Alps than to Model F, especially the sound: Model F is much louder than this, but easily the best clicky board I've tried from this century.

Any solid framed keyboard with those switches is worth a look.

[Spinachi]

Just looked up a sound test of the mentioned switches on said keyboard and damn. It sounds amazing!

I'll have to wait for now as I've literally spent 1500€ on keyboards the past 30 days, but I'll definitely keep this in mind. Thank you.

[genericusername57]

I find its switches quite commendable. It's closer to blue Alps than to Model F, especially the sound: Model F is much louder than this, but easily the best clicky board I've tried from this century.

Another opinion I agree with. I really like the feel of Box White switches, I don't enjoy the sound however. The clickiness of them is like clicking a ballpoint pen. In terms of feel they're very nice to type on though.

[Spinachi]

I don't know if this will ever happen honestly, but I kind of feel like I've lost the motivation to go further with my keyboard hobby. It didn't last long and it may return, but for now I have everything I could possibly want from a keyboard.

I got a couple artisan keycaps, some nice gear (switch pullers, lube, lube station, keycap container, switch container etc), I bought 95 different types of switches (my favorite ones so far are the kailh box jades, which I intend to put on my "end game" keyboard) and now have a total of 5 keyboards (waiting for 1 more - the Zoom75, which I consider to be my "end game keyboard").

The only thing left for me to buy as nothing else has really peaked my interest is the Model F described in this video. Once I get that I'm not sure I'll ever return to the keyboard scene. It was fun while it lasted. I'll still be checking in on this thread from time to time, so if anyone reads this in the future and can help with acquiring a Model F with a Nordic (preferably Danish, but Swedish/Norwegian works too) then let me know. Until then I bid you all farewell. Hobby was fun while it lasted.

EDIT: Actually, I'm not quite done with this hobby. I still want more Artisan keycaps.

[Muirium]

EDIT: Actually, I'm not quite done with this hobby. I still want more Artisan keycaps.

I knew it!

Endgame is a silly, yet common idea. What board can possibly have everything? I've several "endgame" keyboards I keep on using, year after decade, and each of them is something the others can't possess.

Sure, you can call quits on keyboards. (With sufficient will-power I do not see in evidence!) But as long as you care about an endgame, the dragon is still waiting in the wings…

[Spinachi]

EDIT: Actually, I'm not quite done with this hobby. I still want more Artisan keycaps.

I knew it!

Endgame is a silly, yet common idea. What board can possibly have everything? I've several "endgame" keyboards I keep on using, year after decade, and each of them is something the others can't possess.

Sure, you can call quits on keyboards. (With sufficient will-power I do not see in evidence!) But as long as you care about an endgame, the dragon is still waiting in the wings…

Damn it... Maybe you got a point. While I may not exactly quit the hobby, I know for a fact that I will take a long break after the Zoom75. This isn't the same as quitting though. Also as you quoted, the artisan keycaps. I can't keep myself from collecting them. It's ridiculous the pull they have on me lol.

[Spinachi]

Bump!