F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[Ellipse]

Thanks NathanA. The readme txt file link does not seem to be working.

Also in the newfxx-vial-package_r5p1 file, would you mind including the pandrew utility source code and build instructions? I didn't see it in there.

[NathanA]

Thanks NathanA. The readme txt file link does not seem to be working.

Oops; thanks, fixed. I'd done some re-arranging of files after putting the index page together & forgot to update it.

Also in the newfxx-vial-package_r5p1 file, would you mind including the pandrew utility source code and build instructions? I didn't see it in there.

Everything that you need is in there.

My bundle doesn't include the whole source tree for Vial-enabled QMK itself, otherwise it would be massive (and also because I don't feel like maintaining a full fork of Vial/QMK or of pandrew's capsense code, and would rather provide proper attribution to the original authors who did 99% of the work...I did, like, 1% worth of editing and tweaking, heh). Instead, my simplistic build script downloads files from official sources first, and then adds my changes to those files. My changes are contained in the src/ directory. If an existing file written by somebody else needs to be updated, the deltas are contained in the src/newfxx-vial-<blahblah>.diff, but if I had to generate a new file for something (like the various vial.json files for the different keyboard models, or support files for a keyboard model that doesn't even exist at all in pandrew's repo), that is contained in src/files/ & everything from src/files/* is copied wholesale into your root qmk_firmware folder prior to running "qmk compile"

I only had to make a small change to the pandrew-util sources in order to enable it to talk to keyboards running my builds of Vial firmware. That change is contained in the .diff file, and gets applied to the correct file (communication.cpp) in qmk_firmware/keyboards/xwhatsit/util/util/ (I also included a minor patch to mainwindow.ui but it's not important; it literally just corrects a typo to a word that's displayed in the GUI.) I simply do not kick off a build of the pandrew util in my build script, because 1) there are some complex dependencies that need to be met, 2) doing a full build of everything (incl. dependencies; namely, mingw and Qt5) causes a from-scratch build of the util to take *hours* on many machines, and require gobs of free disk space.

If you want to build the util from source, all you need to do is 1) run my build.sh first which properly prepares everything in your qmk_firmware directory (and which you've already run if you already compiled the firmware from scratch), 2) read and follow pandrew's own instructions, which are pretty good. There is keyboards/xwhatsit/util/util/README.md which provides the general overview, and then if you want to build an executable for Windows from Linux, the main README.md helpfully directs you to read keyboards/xwhatsit/util/windows_crosscompile/README.md

You should always perform the very first step in pandrew's README, under the header that says "Before building". This ensures you aren't including stale keyboard definitions in your util.exe

The windows_crosscompile instructions tell you to use Docker, but you don't need to (I don't). If you want to avoid that additional overhead and complexity, just open up keyboards/xwhatsit/util/windows_crosscompile/Dockerfile, and then literally & directly run every command that says "RUN" at the beginning of it. Just copy and paste those commands from the Dockerfile and into your Linux terminal session, but leaving off the "RUN" in front of it (and also do the same with the final "ENV" line, except replace "ENV" with the word "export" instead of just omitting it entirely). (Since Docker assumes an isolated container, it references absolute path names hanging off of /, but I'd advise you to run all of the commands not as root/'sudo' & also to run these commands from your home directory; furthermore, add a ~ to the front of the PATH string on the ENV line, so "~/mxe/blahblahblah".)

[zappazappa]

Been having some issues flashing the firmware for an F62 in Linux. Eventually figured it out though, with a bit more sleuthing than I had expected. lol

[NathanA]

Been having some issues flashing the firmware for an F62 in Linux. Eventually figured it out though, with a bit more sleuthing than I had expected. lol

Can you perhaps elaborate on specifically what the problem was, as well as what the solution ended up being / how you solved it?

[Wazrach]

Hi Joe, please can you specify the difference between the "F122" and "New F122" foam?

[Ellipse]

Wazrach - the new F122 has some repositioned keys compared to the original - you can see the update on the F122 product page to see the differences. So the foam corresponds to the updated barrel positions.

I have to post some of the prototype model photos now that the updated production sample board arrived a few weeks ago. Recently I approved production of the F122 finally after the first inner assembly plates needed some design changes.

Thanks NathanA; that makes sense. I guess the full package would only be needed to be uploaded in case that git source page goes down in the future.

[zappazappa]

Been having some issues flashing the firmware for an F62 in Linux. Eventually figured it out though, with a bit more sleuthing than I had expected. lol

Can you perhaps elaborate on specifically what the problem was, as well as what the solution ended up being / how you solved it?

Sure!

- I couldn't find a link to the correct old QMK site so I paused the youtube video right at 48:39 and copied by eye the website address, namely http://35.164.28.200:5000/#/xwhatsit/brand_new_model_f/
- Nothing was compiling properly and I realized I was in the /f62/xwhatsit pulldown and I needed to be in /f62/wcass
- the instructions for Ubuntu 22.04 on an F62 are:

enter bootloader: Lshift + Rshift + B
sudo dfu-programmer atmega32u2 erase
sudo dfu-programmer atmega32u2 flash /path/to/fw.hex
sudo dfu-programmer atmega32u2 start

And that's it! Good to go, no need to disconnect and reconnect.

[CluelessTechnologist]

I sincerely apologize if I missed something in the manual or in this forum thread. I've spent quite some time reading this thread but I haven't found any reference to my issue.

I received my compact F104 a few months ago and the LED overlays don't light up when using Linux. They work perfectly when the keyboard is connected to a Windows computer using the same USB hub. I have nothing else to complain about when it comes to the keyboard, in fact it's been working so good that I have put off searching for a solution to my issue since it's such a minor one.

[Ellipse]

Major project milestone:

Today the 5,000th Brand New Model F / Beam Spring Keyboard shipped! This is the combined total of all new Model F and Beam Spring keyboards that have been mailed out.

[wobbled]

Is there any reason why there’s still a ‘have your orders in by’ countdown on your website ellipse?

[genericusername57]

Is there any reason why there’s still a ‘have your orders in by’ countdown on your website ellipse?

This particular horse was further beaten just recently, a few pages back at most

[depletedvespene]

Is there any reason why there’s still a ‘have your orders in by’ countdown on your website ellipse?

This particular horse was further beaten just recently, a few pages back at most

Spoiler:

It's the undead horse, so it never ceases to be beaten.

[wobbled]

Is there any reason why there’s still a ‘have your orders in by’ countdown on your website ellipse?

This particular horse was further beaten just recently, a few pages back at most

Is that why he doesn’t answer questions surrounding it and writes it all off as harassment? And people want him to own this site… you would get quietly banned just for questioning his business practices.

[Muirium]

Stockholm Syndrome is real, dude. Now be nice to the men with the firearms. They’re having a hard day, okay!

[Ellipse]

As the factory continues round 2 production this year and we wait for things to wrap up in the coming months, here is a round up of various photos, reviews, and postings from recent months:

A review and photo of the new Model F Ergo board from someone who can type over 100 WPM!
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyb ... y_arrived/

Is there any feedback on the Model F ergo boards from folks who have been using them?

Here's a photo and mini-review of the compact F104 in true red with blue keys:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyb ... nt_things/

And from the same poster, the compact f77 in true red with dark gray keys:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyb ... like_this/

Here's a recent posting of a classic F62 with HHKB style split right shift:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyb ... l_f_quite/

[wobbled]

As the factory continues round 2 production this year and we wait for things to wrap up in the coming months, here is a round up of various photos, reviews, and postings from recent months:

A review and photo of the new Model F Ergo board from someone who can type over 100 WPM!
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyb ... y_arrived/

Is there any feedback on the Model F ergo boards from folks who have been using them?

Here's a photo and mini-review of the compact F104 in true red with blue keys:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyb ... nt_things/

And from the same poster, the compact f77 in true red with dark gray keys:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyb ... like_this/

Here's a recent posting of a classic F62 with HHKB style split right shift:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyb ... l_f_quite/

Thats cool but why do you still have an order cut off date?

[genericusername57]

Thats cool but why do you still have an order cut off date?

To create a sense of urgency to boost sales. That's what it is. No, Ellipse won't ever admit it. Just drop it and move on. If that wasn't the purpose, he could set the cutoff date to be three months in advance rather than one. There is no reason to not do that since everyone knows the project won't be finished in three months. It's one month to pressure people into buying quick, that's the only reason.

As I said, dead horse.

[Ellipse]

Do any folks know of places outside of reddit, keebtalk, and geekhack where folks are posting about Model F and Beam Spring keyboards? I'd like to see these posts as I don't know where to check. I like the idea of a project thread and folks can post their feedback all in one centralized place instead of posting new threads on each new Model F topic for example.

Regarding the deadlines, it has been explained this several times, most recently a few pages ago in this thread. As I mentioned, I understand fully the other perspectives here that are brought up every now and then on the thread and have offered my perspective.

There are a lot of constructive topics that could be discussed even more here, to chat about various mods and other ways to improve the project, such as specific recommendations for various topics: getting the word out on social media and on other forums about these great old style keyboards, encouraging folks to provide feedback on their new Model F and beam spring experiences and on updating and/or simplifying the manual, working with the factories for even more detailed updates and photos, updating the web site design and content, etc. that might be helpful to discuss here instead of focusing on repeating the same objections. I am seeing some Model F and beam spring postings on the other forums which is great.

There are a lot of projects that started here on the various mechanical keyboard forums and grew thanks to the feedback and active discussions over the past decade or more, including Soarer's converter and the xwhatsit controller and all the later controllers that came from it.

I believe that these and other forum projects directly saved many old Model F keyboards from the landfill as they allowed the keyboards to be usable once more with computers, increasing demand enough for electronics recyclers to start paying extra attention to looking for them while sorting, and therefore allowing many more folks to use these great old keyboards.

[wobbled]

Ellipse do you always write a wall of bullshit to escape criticism? Your constantly moving deadlines are to create false urgency just so you can make more money. Your obsessive greed is truly disgusting.
With your products now getting more media attention you might want to consider less scummy business practices.

[thefarside]

Do any folks know of places outside of reddit, keebtalk, and geekhack where folks are posting about Model F and Beam Spring keyboards? I'd like to see these posts as I don't know where to check. I like the idea of a project thread and folks can post their feedback all in one centralized place instead of posting new threads on each new Model F topic for example.

I’d try a Google alert for “Model F Keyboard“. You might get some irrelevant stuff but I’ve found some articles on your keyboards with it. Discord is another place but I’m not sure where you’d find it on the various servers. You could create your own Discord server to have a centralized place.

[Ellipse]

Thanks; that is good advice - yes alerts are great and I have had a bunch of them set up!

Here is a nice review on the new Model F F77 keyboard:

[Ellipse]

As with the previous meetups, I will be attending the NYC Mechanical Keyboard meetup on 4/6 - hope to see everyone there!

I will be bringing some of the new Model F and new Beam Spring boards. Currently there is a waitlist as all tickets have sold out. These meetups are in a nice space and they have been well-attended.

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/nyc-mechan ... tdtcreator

[Ellipse]

Pad print update:

The artwork file had to be created (repositioning Zed's legends for the new file) for the new pad print jig, which has a different arrangement of keys compared to the dye sublimation jigs. The US art has been completed and confirmed, with the additional sets to follow. Next the factory has to create the physical artwork from the file and then start testing the machine with this artwork, both to confirm the alignment for each key within one key set is consistent (artwork distance from top and left edges of the key top surface), and the alignment among various key sets can be done consistently. This process has taken a very long time but we are getting closer to having pad printed buckling spring keys once more!

Additional keys update (ISO Enter non-stepped, PC AT Big Enter, Code key):

The mold needed to be adjusted as the key quality was not good enough. The factory reports that the mold has been updated and they sent some samples to the sublimation factory for evaluation. After they evaluate, they will send some samples my way for evaluation. If approved, then this batch of keys will hopefully be completed, sublimated, and sent to me.

[thefarside]

Great to hear ellipse! Looking forward to seeing examples of these. For the pad printed keys, are you planning for white print on black keys only or other color combos?

[shampoo]

My F62 Kishsaver arrived and I set it up today. Vial is a real treat.

I also own a UltraCompact F77 and these two keyboards are very different in terms of weight and sound and feel. I am sure I am not stating anything anyone didn't already know.. But the F62 is a complete TANK compared to the F77. Much louder, feels much more solid when typing. Doesn't at all feel like the same keyboard. I am glad I got the F62 and didn't stop at the F77. The F77 is probably going to my office to annoy my co-workers.

[Ellipse]

Thanks for the feedback shampoo. I wonder if it is sample variation regarding the tightness of the inner assembly plates, etc. or if it has something to do with the far heavier zinc cases versus the aluminum compact cases. Or maybe a bit of both?

thefarside that is something I have been thinking about.

Is there any interest in other colors besides white for the pad printing?

So far the major pad printing variable costs are the inks and the creation of the plate (a separate plate is required for each set of keys). The key cap colors can vary though I am not sure if white pad printing will show up adequately on some of the key colors.

[thefarside]

Is there any interest in other colors besides white for the pad printing?

I think white ink on your gray, dark gray and black keys would look nice. That would make themes like the space cadet keyboard possible:

IMG_0295.jpeg (214.92 KiB) Viewed 7098 times

I’m sure white ink on red would also be interesting.

You asked about what type of pad printing to use and I didn’t have an opinion, but after seeing some IBM M13 keyboards with worn legends I think whatever has the greatest durability would be best.

[shampoo]

@ellipse you may wish to talk to the author of this piece: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/03 ... ings/6/#h2

[Ellipse]

Thanks for letting me know!

Yes, last year I sent a note thanking the author, who wrote a great in-depth article on the new Model F project's full-size keyboard announcement. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/04 ... computers/

thefarside that color scheme does look nice!

[engr]

As far as pad printing colors, I would love an option of a bilingual or trilingual set with white, red, and blue legends.