Hey everyone,
My first post here; looks like a great forum. First, a quick intro: Colemak user, MS Natural 4000 + Kensington Expert Mouse. Very ergo-conscious; work on a recliner (fixed angle) with two 24" LCDs.
It's comfortable, and I have the MS board on my lap when I work. It has a very generous wristpad that's a part of the board (not detachable) so it doesn't need a desk to be effective.
I'm considering getting a Kinesis Advantage (thinking about the LF, red keystem model), but I'm not sure whether or not it's going to be compatible with my deskless, recliner work style. A few points to consider:
1) My feet don't touch the floor when I work, so I can't use a foot switch. Is this going to be a big loss for me in terms of functionality? Specifically, the F-keys on the Kinesis look really uncomfortable to use, and I understand some people remap them to the number keys + footswitch. Without being able to remap like this, will it still be worth it?
2) Is the Kinesis too heavy to put on my lap for hours? Is the wrist pad generous and sturdy enough to support my wrists with no desk, or is it flimsy and detachable?
3) I code, so I constantly need keys like []<>(). Is this a problem?
4) What about media keys? VolUp, VolDn, Play/Pause etc?
5) I want blank, smooth keycaps. I know I can get some from wasdkeys, but can I get all of them? Or just the main ones? (I'd like to replace the thumb keys as well).
Thanks in advance for all of your advice.
Kinesis Advantage on my lap (no desk) - bad idea?
-
Icarium
- Location: Germany
- Main keyboard: These fields just
- Main mouse: opened my eyes
- Favorite switch: I need to bring stuff to work
- DT Pro Member: -
1) You don't need a foot switch to use it.
EDIT: The F keys work but are indeed annoying. Many people mod the board and replace them, others remap.
2) No, I do that, too.
3) I don't like where they are on the standard layout but I don't use that. So I can't answer your question but I generally always advise people to use remapping software and add another layer for symbols. It's super-awesome.
4) There are none.
5) Input nirvana has been gathering specs. He is the one to talk to about this.
The Kinesis is a great keyboard but there would be room for modding. If you use remapping software it is pretty great.
EDIT: The F keys work but are indeed annoying. Many people mod the board and replace them, others remap.
2) No, I do that, too.
3) I don't like where they are on the standard layout but I don't use that. So I can't answer your question but I generally always advise people to use remapping software and add another layer for symbols. It's super-awesome.
4) There are none.
5) Input nirvana has been gathering specs. He is the one to talk to about this.
The Kinesis is a great keyboard but there would be room for modding. If you use remapping software it is pretty great.
-
Tadersy
- Main keyboard: MS Natural 4000
- Main mouse: Kensington Expert Mouse
- DT Pro Member: -
Wow, thanks for the quick and helpful reply! Q's:
1) Got a link to a modding tutorial or post? Do they have Cherry keystems or are they squishy rubber down to the PCB?
3) Remapping software -- you mean something bundled with the board (at the firmware level) or MSKLC/AutoHotkey?
5) Understood; I'll wait for further replies before PMing, I don't want to bug anyone. Thanks!
1) Got a link to a modding tutorial or post? Do they have Cherry keystems or are they squishy rubber down to the PCB?
3) Remapping software -- you mean something bundled with the board (at the firmware level) or MSKLC/AutoHotkey?
5) Understood; I'll wait for further replies before PMing, I don't want to bug anyone. Thanks!
-
Icarium
- Location: Germany
- Main keyboard: These fields just
- Main mouse: opened my eyes
- Favorite switch: I need to bring stuff to work
- DT Pro Member: -
1) Worse they don't even have a PCB there is just some foil.
3) On Windows I'm using Autohotkey. Some people use the key remapping feature of the firmware but I'm not too fond of it. You can only remap entire keys no layers or functions iirc. I think it is quite limited.
5) He has an article on geekhack where he used to gather all the information. I would post a link but can't find my geekhack login atm. I can dig out the relevant parts in a minute.
3) On Windows I'm using Autohotkey. Some people use the key remapping feature of the firmware but I'm not too fond of it. You can only remap entire keys no layers or functions iirc. I think it is quite limited.
5) He has an article on geekhack where he used to gather all the information. I would post a link but can't find my geekhack login atm. I can dig out the relevant parts in a minute.
-
Icarium
- Location: Germany
- Main keyboard: These fields just
- Main mouse: opened my eyes
- Favorite switch: I need to bring stuff to work
- DT Pro Member: -
I don't have time to clean it up right now but that is from Input Nirvana's post over on Geekhack:
OFFICIAL PARTS LIST
- When I list the symbols, I used both the unshifted and shifted symbols for that key, just to make it easier to see.
- The "International Key" produces §± in the U.S. but has \| symbol repeated on the key like the actual \| key.
- The legends are based on U.S. and QWERTY. The important information is the actual key caps that are needed, not the legends...they are just for reference.
ORDERING INFORMATION (Signature Plastics option):
A Kinesis set (with cylindrical instead of spherical home keys):
- Only 4 DCS Row 3 1x1..........G H End PageDown
- Add 8 DSA Row 3 1x1...........A S D F J K L ;: (these may be a "Deep Dish" key cap)
I disregard the "homing bump" option for the index fingers when using the spherical keys options (see DSA sheet)
A tactile homing "bump" or "bar" can be used on the index fingers of the home row if the spherical keys are not used. Hardly required since the keywells mostly guide your fingers to the correct locations:
- *Only 10 DCS row 3 1x1.....................................A S D G H K L ;: End PageDown
- Add 2 DCS row 3 1x1 with "bump" or "bar".......F J
These key caps are available as ABS or PBT (PBT is a nicer plastic). Doubleshot key caps are also available.
The last choice is color.
- - - THE SPHERICALS, NEED TO CONFIRM IF THE HOME ROW IS A "DEEP DISH" KEY CAP..... (NEED INFO FROM SIGNATURE PLASTICS AND WILL UPDATE).
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The same exact key caps with the taller skirt (Filco/Costar). Items in red still have the SP designations because I don't know what Filco or equal part number is.
ORDERING INFORMATION (Costar/Filco/equal option):
A Kinesis set (with cylindrical instead of spherical home keys):
- Only 4 Row 2 1x1..........G H End PageDown
- Add 8 DSA Row 3 1x1...........A S D F J K L ;: (these may be a "Deep Dish" key cap)
I disregard the "homing bump" option for the index fingers when using the spherical keys options (see DSA sheet)
A tactile homing "bump" or "bar" can be used on the index fingers of the home row if the spherical keys are not used. Hardly required since the keywells mostly guide your fingers to the correct locations:
- *Only 10 row 3 1x1.....................................A S D G H K L ;: End PageDown
- Add 2 DCS row 3 1x1 with "bump" or "bar".......F J
OFFICIAL PARTS LIST
- When I list the symbols, I used both the unshifted and shifted symbols for that key, just to make it easier to see.
- The "International Key" produces §± in the U.S. but has \| symbol repeated on the key like the actual \| key.
- The legends are based on U.S. and QWERTY. The important information is the actual key caps that are needed, not the legends...they are just for reference.
ORDERING INFORMATION (Signature Plastics option):
A Kinesis set (with cylindrical instead of spherical home keys):
- 10 DCS row 1 1x1..........1 2 4 5 6 7 9 0 Home PageUp
- 12 DCS row 2 1x1..........Q W E R T Y I O U P 3 8
- *12 DCS row 3 1x1........A S D F G H J K L ;: End PageDown
- 18 DCS row 4 1x1..........Z X C V B N M ,< .> /? `~ \| Larrow Rarrow Uarrow Darrow [[ ]]
- 4 DCS row 5 1x1............CTRL ALT/OPT Command/Win (the 4 keys at the top of the thumb clusters vary in function depending on OS used)
- 2 DCS row 1 1x1.25.......=+ -_
- 6 DCS row 3 1x1.25.......Tab \| CapLock '" Shift Shift
- 2 DCS row 4 1x2 (turned vertical) (NumPadZero).....Enter Delete
- 2 DCS row 4/4 1x2 vertical (NumPadEnter).....Space Backspace
- Only 4 DCS Row 3 1x1..........G H End PageDown
- Add 8 DSA Row 3 1x1...........A S D F J K L ;: (these may be a "Deep Dish" key cap)
I disregard the "homing bump" option for the index fingers when using the spherical keys options (see DSA sheet)
A tactile homing "bump" or "bar" can be used on the index fingers of the home row if the spherical keys are not used. Hardly required since the keywells mostly guide your fingers to the correct locations:
- *Only 10 DCS row 3 1x1.....................................A S D G H K L ;: End PageDown
- Add 2 DCS row 3 1x1 with "bump" or "bar".......F J
These key caps are available as ABS or PBT (PBT is a nicer plastic). Doubleshot key caps are also available.
The last choice is color.
- - - THE SPHERICALS, NEED TO CONFIRM IF THE HOME ROW IS A "DEEP DISH" KEY CAP..... (NEED INFO FROM SIGNATURE PLASTICS AND WILL UPDATE).
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The same exact key caps with the taller skirt (Filco/Costar). Items in red still have the SP designations because I don't know what Filco or equal part number is.
ORDERING INFORMATION (Costar/Filco/equal option):
A Kinesis set (with cylindrical instead of spherical home keys):
- 10 row 4 1x1..........1 2 4 5 6 7 9 0 Home PageUp
- 12 row 3 1x1..........Q W E R T Y I O U P 3 8
- *12 row 2 1x1........A S D F G H J K L ;: End PageDown
- 18 row 1 1x1..........Z X C V B N M ,< .> /? `~ \| Larrow Rarrow Uarrow Darrow [[ ]]
- 4 row 5 1x1............CTRL ALT/OPT Command/Win (the 4 keys at the top of the thumb clusters vary in function depending on OS used)
- 2 row 4 1x1.25.......=+ -_
- 6 row 2 1x1.25.......Tab \| CapLock '" Shift Shift
- 2 row 1 1x2 (turned vertical) (NumPadZero).....Enter Delete
- 2 row 1x2 vertical (NumPadEnter).....Space Backspace
- Only 4 Row 2 1x1..........G H End PageDown
- Add 8 DSA Row 3 1x1...........A S D F J K L ;: (these may be a "Deep Dish" key cap)
I disregard the "homing bump" option for the index fingers when using the spherical keys options (see DSA sheet)
A tactile homing "bump" or "bar" can be used on the index fingers of the home row if the spherical keys are not used. Hardly required since the keywells mostly guide your fingers to the correct locations:
- *Only 10 row 3 1x1.....................................A S D G H K L ;: End PageDown
- Add 2 DCS row 3 1x1 with "bump" or "bar".......F J
-
Icarium
- Location: Germany
- Main keyboard: These fields just
- Main mouse: opened my eyes
- Favorite switch: I need to bring stuff to work
- DT Pro Member: -
1) Well, with actual cherry switches of course. If you don't mind holding them in place with hot glue it's actually not all that much work iirc. Dammit all that info was buried in the Geekhackhack.
2) I use AHK. I'm pretty happy with it. Definitely too happy to make the effort of switching to something else. And I don't know of anything better anyway. What's PKL?
2) I use AHK. I'm pretty happy with it. Definitely too happy to make the effort of switching to something else. And I don't know of anything better anyway. What's PKL?
-
Tadersy
- Main keyboard: MS Natural 4000
- Main mouse: Kensington Expert Mouse
- DT Pro Member: -
0) Okay, I gotta be honest: I read that entire dump from geekhack and couldn't really understand much. Would you mind linking to the original post over there?
1) Understood.
2) PKL is Portable Keyboard Layout, an AHK-based tool for remapping keys that can read MSKLC files (iirc).
1) Understood.
2) PKL is Portable Keyboard Layout, an AHK-based tool for remapping keys that can read MSKLC files (iirc).
-
Tadersy
- Main keyboard: MS Natural 4000
- Main mouse: Kensington Expert Mouse
- DT Pro Member: -
-
fossala
- Elite +1
- Location: UK
- Main keyboard: HHKB Type-S
- Main mouse: Rollermouse Free2
- Favorite switch: Topre
- DT Pro Member: -
-
vivalarevolución
- formerly prdlm2009
- Location: USA
- Main keyboard: IBM Beam spring
- Main mouse: Kangaroo
- Favorite switch: beam spring
- DT Pro Member: 0097
Most evetything you need to know has been said, but I'll throw in some more about working on your lap. I don't have a nice recliner, but the keyboard definitely is not too heavy to work with on your lap. I find in more stable than a straight keyboard on my lap.
I didn't like the position of the brackets I moved those. Same thing with the arrow keys. Another thing you could do is mod the keyboard and add a couple keys. Or if you really wanted to get ridiculous, buy the footswitch, put it on your chair, and press that with your hand for an extra key.
Also, Kinesis has a decent 60-day return policy you can read about on their website. As long as you dont drag the keyboard through the mud and throw it against the wall, I think they will accept the return
I didn't like the position of the brackets I moved those. Same thing with the arrow keys. Another thing you could do is mod the keyboard and add a couple keys. Or if you really wanted to get ridiculous, buy the footswitch, put it on your chair, and press that with your hand for an extra key.
Also, Kinesis has a decent 60-day return policy you can read about on their website. As long as you dont drag the keyboard through the mud and throw it against the wall, I think they will accept the return
-
vivalarevolución
- formerly prdlm2009
- Location: USA
- Main keyboard: IBM Beam spring
- Main mouse: Kangaroo
- Favorite switch: beam spring
- DT Pro Member: 0097
Most evetything you need to know has been said, but I'll throw in some more about working on your lap. I don't have a nice recliner, but the keyboard definitely is not too heavy to work with on your lap. I find in more stable than a straight keyboard on my lap.
I didn't like the position of the brackets I moved those. Same thing with the arrow keys. Another thing you could do is mod the keyboard and add a couple keys. Or if you really wanted to get ridiculous, buy the footswitch, put it on your chair, and press that with your hand for an extra key.
Also, Kinesis has a decent 60-day return policy you can read about on their website. As long as you dont drag the keyboard through the mud and throw it against the wall, I think they will accept the return
I didn't like the position of the brackets I moved those. Same thing with the arrow keys. Another thing you could do is mod the keyboard and add a couple keys. Or if you really wanted to get ridiculous, buy the footswitch, put it on your chair, and press that with your hand for an extra key.
Also, Kinesis has a decent 60-day return policy you can read about on their website. As long as you dont drag the keyboard through the mud and throw it against the wall, I think they will accept the return
-
Tadersy
- Main keyboard: MS Natural 4000
- Main mouse: Kensington Expert Mouse
- DT Pro Member: -
Thank you! Yeah, I'm counting on their return policy... It's a high-risk purchase for me.
Adding keys looks super-cool, but it's such a complicated hardware mod... I'm more of a software kind of guy myself. Maybe I can fake a foot switch just by plugging into the RJ45 with something, without actually opening the keyboard.
Adding keys looks super-cool, but it's such a complicated hardware mod... I'm more of a software kind of guy myself. Maybe I can fake a foot switch just by plugging into the RJ45 with something, without actually opening the keyboard.
-
natas206
- Main keyboard: Advantage
- Main mouse: kensignton
- Favorite switch: red
- DT Pro Member: -
There are actually multi media keys which you can enable by pressing "=n" or by pressing = and the individual key (rather than enabling all of them).
Multimedia Group features, = n
Key Action
F3 Previous track
F4 Play, Pause
F5 Next track
F9 Mute
F10 Volume down
F11 Volume up
Pause Stop
Internet Group features, = i
Key Action
F7 Email
F8 Browser
Multimedia Group features, = n
Key Action
F3 Previous track
F4 Play, Pause
F5 Next track
F9 Mute
F10 Volume down
F11 Volume up
Pause Stop
Internet Group features, = i
Key Action
F7 Email
F8 Browser
-
vivalarevolución
- formerly prdlm2009
- Location: USA
- Main keyboard: IBM Beam spring
- Main mouse: Kangaroo
- Favorite switch: beam spring
- DT Pro Member: 0097
I had no clue I could do this. Interesting.natas206 wrote:There are actually multi media keys which you can enable by pressing "=n" or by pressing = and the individual key (rather than enabling all of them).
Multimedia Group features, = n
Key Action
F3 Previous track
F4 Play, Pause
F5 Next track
F9 Mute
F10 Volume down
F11 Volume up
Pause Stop
Internet Group features, = i
Key Action
F7 Email
F8 Browser