Ergodox massdrop groupbuy discussion

User avatar
webwit
Wild Duck

09 Nov 2012, 23:02

Professional negotiations.
Worthless marketing unless proven otherwise. So if you need 500 of something and get a quote, and then massdrop gets a quote, massdrop will get a better price because of what? Bullying because they are "massdrop"?

Note that in order for massdrop to get the buyers a better price, massdrop must spend time and resources "negotiating", motivated by a lower cut if they do their work well. They must be motivated to work in order to earn less.

AloisiusFauxly

09 Nov 2012, 23:19

webwit wrote:So if you need 500 of something and get a quote, and then massdrop gets a quote, massdrop will get a better price because of what? Bullying because they are "massdrop"?
I'm a bit doubtful on this point as well, but it's possible that dealing with an established business rather than a random person would open some doors for them depending on the source.
webwit wrote:Note that in order for massdrop to get the buyers a better price, massdrop must spend time and resources "negotiating", motivated by a lower cut if they do their work well. They must be motivated to work in order to earn less.
Not necessarily. If they spend time reducing a $4,000 order down to $3,700 they could offer a $200 savings to the buyers, and keep $100 for themselves. Everyone wins there.

bisl

14 Nov 2012, 08:33

Hi all,

I bungled the communication with Massdrop concerning the requirement that people be able to omit certain components from the process (in short, the pcb-only case). After clarifying with them, it has changed the way they would facilitate things on their end:
massdrop wrote:We can set it up so that people only buy the components they want. It's an interesting setup because DIYers can come in and participate just for certain parts.

Diode prices get pretty good once your ordering over 10,000 units.

After considering the options, we think it makes the more sense to run this as multiple massdrops. We're going to make a modified checkout process so that you all only have to enter your payment info once.

Each component of this kit is a group buy within itself and we want to incorporate as many people as possible to ensure maximum buying power. This way, all the people interested in the kits get served, and so do all the DIYers who want to save on individual parts.
A small change, but noteworthy. We'll see how a multi-massdrop workflow ends up working. I'm going to suggest they try to set up a poll for us to gauge current interest and see if it's possible to determine our price breaks before we set up the actually massdrops themselves.

AloisiusFauxly

15 Nov 2012, 01:38

As long as they can combine shipping to save costs, multiple buys seems just fine.

Yeah, polling to get price breaks before setting them up would be good.

localredhead

19 Nov 2012, 22:34

Seriously, getting in early on one of these works of arts would make my year.

My kinesis is already jealous of my love for the Ergo Dox. How soon can we get an order going?

I'm not sure if my name is on the list of interested parties yet -- if not please add me!

mjtorn

25 Nov 2012, 14:54

Hi!

Love the project! I was looking for a keyboard to carry with my laptop, because regular keyboards just don't do it after you get a taste of Kinesis Advantage ;) And that's not an easy keyboard to carry with you :D Then the key64 looked too different but ergodox is clearly the way to go.

So I'm definitely interested, especially with the cost ranges proposed before :) Count me in!

Then about the case designs on the web page; what's the double slope about? Any cool pics of it, to go with the (probably) flat one on the front page.
Is that the case design that'll end up in a GB?

My biggest issue would be the soldering - anyone in Finland, especially Helsinki, who's into that, maybe we could work something out - so any kind of GB is ok, even PCB-only.

Anyway, really cool stuff, thanks for doing this :)

dmnd

01 Dec 2012, 10:52

I registered just to ask to be added to the group buy. Count me in for 2! The ergodox looks great.

I've been using an MS ergo 4k but been looking for something split, mechanical, and not as weird as the Kinesis.

bisl

05 Dec 2012, 01:40

I've been pretty silent with this for a while, and I apologize--I'm working with Massdrop on getting the polls set up, but I want to get all the bases covered before I start shopping links around to direct everyone there. They had a good prototype poll set up, but it was missing a crucial option for PCB + Case. Once it's up with all the major ordering options I'll hit the thread with links.

sinis: kickstarter is explicitly not for group buys, whereas massdrop is explicitly for group buys.

bisl

05 Dec 2012, 16:06

Hey all! I heard back from Massdrop yesterday, and they have the poll set up for us. Please drop by and and make an account to let them know what you'd like out of the Ergodox, be it the full kit, the PCB alone, or the PCB + Case, etc. This will help them work out price break information.

Thanks!

Non-embedded URL: http://www.massdrop.com/poll/ergo-dox-full-or-partial
Last edited by bisl on 05 Dec 2012, 16:35, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
fossala
Elite +1

05 Dec 2012, 16:10

bisl wrote:Hey all! I heard back from Massdrop yesterday, and they have the poll set up for us. Please drop by and and make an account to let them know what you'd like out of the Ergodox, be it the full kit, the PCB alone, or the PCB + Case, etc. This will help them work out price break information.

Thanks!

Non-embedded URL: https://www.massdrop.com/poll/ergo-dox-full-or-partial
Why do I have to sign up to some website for a groupbuy, saddens me to say this but count me out...

User avatar
ironman31

05 Dec 2012, 17:07

fossala wrote: Why do I have to sign up to some website for a groupbuy, saddens me to say this but count me out...
Why is that a problem?

User avatar
dirge

05 Dec 2012, 17:12

ironman31 wrote: Why is that a problem?
Not usually what's done, typically a few people organise and distribute.

User avatar
ironman31

05 Dec 2012, 17:14

I'm ok with anything. Just as long as most everyone is doing the same thing so we can get the best prices.

User avatar
justcallmecrash

05 Dec 2012, 17:20

ironman31 wrote:I'm ok with anything. Just as long as most everyone is doing the same thing so we can get the best prices.
QFT

User avatar
fossala
Elite +1

05 Dec 2012, 17:24

ironman31 wrote:I'm ok with anything. Just as long as most everyone is doing the same thing so we can get the best prices.
They are obviously not the BEST pricing we can get as we are paying them for not doing too much.

User avatar
ironman31

05 Dec 2012, 17:26

Then I guess we shouldn't use them lol. I'm just going with the flow. Should we have a poll on this site and geekhack asking everyone what option they would prefer?

bisl

05 Dec 2012, 17:27

Also: they've made a separate poll for the case type. I don't believe this will be a winner-take-all thing, but rather just for them to gauge who wants what so they can shop the orders accordingly. I believe everyone will be able to get the case they want.
Last edited by bisl on 05 Dec 2012, 18:55, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
bhtooefr

05 Dec 2012, 17:32

They may be able to get better pricing than someone who doesn't deal with this every day. (Or, they may be able to do enough to make the added cost worth it.)

User avatar
webwit
Wild Duck

05 Dec 2012, 17:46

"Hello, I'm a registration wall. You may not view these pages, and not view About us or Terms of Service."

"Bye. I was webwit. Go fuck yourself."

rodtang

05 Dec 2012, 18:47

If you want to view the page without signing up, just delete all the relevant nodes using the inspect element feature in firefox.

User avatar
Icarium

05 Dec 2012, 18:50

Yeah sure, make us log-in to participate in your fucking poll. I fucking hate how the fucking facebook and google log-in services have increased the number of websites that want you to log in.

User avatar
Ascaii
The Beard

05 Dec 2012, 18:54

Count me out, not registering for another fcking website.

User avatar
dirge

05 Dec 2012, 19:11

So I'm hearing yes for the keyboard, no for the delivery method.

Case didn't arrive today, took a half day too... grrrr.

I think it may be easier to split this down the middle, geekhack to a US group buy, deskthority do a group buy. Before this implodes on itself. Bringing in 3rd parties to handle this better than ourselves is never going to work or provide as much value.

User avatar
ironman31

05 Dec 2012, 19:14

dirge wrote:So I'm hearing yes for the keyboard, no for the delivery method.

Case didn't arrive today, took a half day too... grrrr.

I think it may be easier to split this down the middle, geekhack to a US group buy, deskthority do a group buy. Before this implodes on itself. Bringing in 3rd parties to handle this better than ourselves is never going to work or provide as much value.

Sounds good. I'm ready to buy my keyboard.

User avatar
damorgue

05 Dec 2012, 19:15

I scrolled a bit to see the cases, it is a bit dark but still visible. Is the Dox style case a milled one? Is litsters one without the extra wrist area out of the game?

Also, I am against that site as well.

User avatar
7bit

05 Dec 2012, 19:17

webwit wrote:"Hello, I'm a registration wall. You may not view these pages, and not view About us or Terms of Service."

"Bye. I was webwit. Go fuck yourself."
Thanks for trying this out for us!

What about including the ErgoDox into a community group buy, or run it separately, just to annoy the Massdroppers?

bisl

05 Dec 2012, 19:22

dirge wrote:I think it may be easier to split this down the middle, geekhack to a US group buy, deskthority do a group buy. Before this implodes on itself. Bringing in 3rd parties to handle this better than ourselves is never going to work or provide as much value.
Alternatively, split it down the middle between those that are willing to use Massdrop (and actually get this done eventually), and those who don't want to use Massdrop, instead preferring to organize money handling, purchasing, and shipping themselves.

User avatar
dirge

05 Dec 2012, 19:27

damorgue wrote:Is the Dox style case a milled one? Is litsters one without the extra wrist area out of the game?
Dox's was a shapeways creation, very nice too just expensive!

litsters without the wrist rest one is what I'm having made. I've had all the parts and a pair of ergodox pcb's sat here for a few weeks now. Case was £55 for the one off, with volume that will come down.

Has someone worked out the best layout for the board?

User avatar
damorgue

05 Dec 2012, 19:35

So what differs Dox's 3D-printed case from the other three 3D-printed cases?

User avatar
dirge

05 Dec 2012, 19:39

I must have missed something mate, Dox's is the only 3d printed case that I think I've seen. The other two cases, one with wrist rest and one without were litsters layered acrylic sheet design. Like the phantom one's he did. (he also did a one off aluminium case for the phantom... maybe have a chat with him about it)

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