Ergodox massdrop groupbuy discussion

[Soarer]

"Ultrapolling" sounds like a Razer marketing stunt and about as useful as gold plated cable connectors. Are there any studies that show that somebody's performance improved using ultrapolling? I mean ANY. Even a couple of progamer stats are better than nothing...

Sure, that's a naff term. But reducing delay by 7ms in the worst case (3.5ms average) will certainly help when gaming, and more importantly, be more predictable. Of course, a less conservative debounce algorithm could probably help just as much, if not more (it really needn't take 10s of ms to debounce, which seems typical).

Anyway, this hardware could easily support 1000Hz and NKRO, which answers the question technically

[sordna]

I much prefer the better compatibility of 6KRO keyboards than having the rather useless NKRO.

Wow, group buy ended with 204 unit sold! That's a huge and swift success for the ErgoDox project!
Dox & team must have done things right ..including some tough decisions, with valid pros and valid cons. Respect!
ErgoDox wins! I ended up buying 2, one with acrylic, one with aluminum case.

I suspect there must be people that never saw a keyboard forum that have bought this. Certainly lots of lay people saw it, and that's a win too.

However I hope there will also be forum folks doing more group buys for this, especially regional ones.

I volunteer fossala for the UK, and webwit for the Netherlands. Get going!

[ic07]

@Soarer: Left hand side scan takes ~4ms all by itself, IIRC (I2C is slooow). The right hand side could scan a lot faster by itself, and debounce could certainly be tuned though.

@Sordna:

[Soarer]

I much prefer the better compatibility of 6KRO keyboards than having the rather useless NKRO.

Do I really have to always point out the difference between good NKRO and bad NKRO?

And to point out that it doesn't have to do what it technically can - if you wish to be a 3-toed sloth, that's possible too

[Soarer]

@Soarer: Left hand side scan takes ~4ms all by itself, IIRC (I2C is slooow). The right hand side could scan a lot faster by itself, and debounce could certainly be tuned though.

Sure, it all adds up though. Taking a few ms out of the USB comms is still a few ms less overall

Custom firmwares probably have a tighter debounce than your typical Holtek chip, since their base firmware won't even know which switches it will be scanning (that's what I meant by over-conservative).

[aragon]

I suspect there must be people that never saw a keyboard forum that have bought this. Certainly lots of lay people saw it, and that's a win too.

I was oblivious to this geeky world of keyboard hacking until I stumbled upon the ErgoDox project.

All thanks to a comment on a serendipitously timed Anandtech article.

[AloisiusFauxly]

@damorgue - US contract/ToS law is complicated, making it hard to decipher the language in an agreement without a lot of qualified research or by speaking to a lawyer. There have been pushes to use plain language in agreements, and sites like Terms of Service; Didn't Read, but "legalese" remains a dense and twisted language.

Also, just because something is written in a ToS doesn't make it valid or enforceable. I imagine companies reach for as much as they can until it becomes a problem.

[webwit]

You really aren't paid for this shit?

[sordna]

I much prefer the better compatibility of 6KRO keyboards than having the rather useless NKRO.

Do I really have to always point out the difference between good NKRO and bad NKRO?

Actually, I'd love to read about this, if you have a good pointer. My impression (which could be wrong) is that NKRO over USB requires some tricks (like presenting multiple keyboards to the computer) which is why some keyboards on the market that advertise NKRO over USB have issues with some operating systems.

Anyway, please provide a pointer that discusses good NKRO. Also, can you mention any keyboards that do NKRO over USB that don't present multiple keyboards to the computer, and that work 100% fine with Windows, Mac, and Linux without special drivers?
Thanks in advance!

[AloisiusFauxly]

You really aren't paid for this shit?

Nope.

[Soarer]

I much prefer the better compatibility of 6KRO keyboards than having the rather useless NKRO.

Do I really have to always point out the difference between good NKRO and bad NKRO?

Actually, I'd love to read about this, if you have a good pointer. My impression (which could be wrong) is that NKRO over USB requires some tricks (like presenting multiple keyboards to the computer) which is why some keyboards on the market that advertise NKRO over USB have issues with some operating systems.

Anyway, please provide a pointer that discusses good NKRO. Also, can you mention any keyboards that do NKRO over USB that don't present multiple keyboards to the computer, and that work 100% fine with Windows, Mac, and Linux without special drivers?
Thanks in advance!

Searching my posts on GH for full speed nkro seems to hit most threads I can recall offhand. Hasu and others have also posted good stuff about NKRO of course, but I think I've been the most evangelical

As for keyboards, that sounds like a challenge rather than an honest question. One of those threads tries to identify them, but they haven't really got there yet. That doesn't change in any way what is possible though, especially when we're talking here about a custom firmware.

[gdaian]

What I really want now is to see AloisiusFauxly and webwit make out.

[webwit]

Can only be settled with a keyboard duel. Both wield a keyboard as a club, first keyboard to break loses. I'll bring a beam spring board.

[ironman31]

What I really want now is to see AloisiusFauxly and webwit make out.

lol, was this supposed to be funny? or just a translation error?
Maybe "make up"?

[AloisiusFauxly]

I'll just wait until that aluminum Ergodox case comes. NUNCHUCKS MOTHERFUCKER.

[webwit]

You wouldn't even be able to break a key on a beam spring keyboard with that. Keycap mount is made of steel. Like most of the rest of the keyboard.

[AloisiusFauxly]

That's assuming I'd be aiming at your keyboard

[eviltobz]

I suspect there must be people that never saw a keyboard forum that have bought this. Certainly lots of lay people saw it, and that's a win too.

I was oblivious to this geeky world of keyboard hacking until I stumbled upon the ErgoDox project.

All thanks to a comment on a serendipitously timed Anandtech article.

Whereas I just scored a cheapy kinesis ergo classic on ebay and stumbled into this world when looking for tips. That was an expensive week And it also got me learning colemak, so this is my slowest forum post ever!

[dirge]

I suspect there must be people that never saw a keyboard forum that have bought this. Certainly lots of lay people saw it, and that's a win too.

I was oblivious to this geeky world of keyboard hacking until I stumbled upon the ErgoDox project.

All thanks to a comment on a serendipitously timed Anandtech article.

Whereas I just scored a cheapy kinesis ergo classic on ebay and stumbled into this world when looking for tips. That was an expensive week And it also got me learning colemak, so this is my slowest forum post ever!

welcome to the madhouse your wallet is going to empty.

[sinis]

can someone tell me the possible kits and prices?

[eviltobz]

...
Whereas I just scored a cheapy kinesis ergo classic on ebay and stumbled into this world when looking for tips. That was an expensive week And it also got me learning colemak, so this is my slowest forum post ever!

welcome to the madhouse your wallet is going to empty.

Heh, cheers. I'm currently hoping that between the ErgoDox and the Kinesis I'll be able to have one at home and one at work and be happy with that, especially if I follow some of the Kinesis mods and all that. But yeah, there does seem to be a looming cost, not least cos I'm dying to have a go on a DataHand

[Sunspots]

In the case of a dispute, your only option is to fuck off.

pay by PayPal? or use your credit card protection if there is a serious problem? better than nothing, but I struggle to wrap my head around the USA's limited consumer protection legislation, or even law like we have in Europe that says unfair contract terms are invalid.

But we agreed to a contract which removes or right at claims and where we must do everything in our power in order to defend them in a dispute. Money claims violate said agreement as we are to protect them from loss, and reimburse them for claims and all that. Not only that, but the agreement specifically mentions that it supersedes other laws and that we waive any rights given to us by other laws. I don't really see a way around it.

No contract can supersede law. Such a contract is in of itself usually rendered completely or partially non-binding, moot.

I suspect there must be people that never saw a keyboard forum that have bought this. Certainly lots of lay people saw it, and that's a win too.

I was oblivious to this geeky world of keyboard hacking until I stumbled upon the ErgoDox project.

All thanks to a comment on a serendipitously timed Anandtech article.

Whereas I just scored a cheapy kinesis ergo classic on ebay and stumbled into this world when looking for tips. That was an expensive week And it also got me learning colemak, so this is my slowest forum post ever!

Welcome to Colemak, my dear friend! You are in for a treat (well, maybe in a couple months from now).

[sordna]

can someone tell me the possible kits and prices?

Full keyboard (without keycaps) in acrylic case: $199. You must specify the MX switch type (blue, black, or red) and the case style (Classic or Full Hand) at no different cost.
Add $65 to change the material to aluminum.
Subtract $44 if you do not want switches included (the switch options that I can remember were blue, black, red... brown was not available.)

Keycaps are spherical PBT blanks, on a separate GB (still active).

Someone on GH reported they used "live chat" and got an order in even though the Keyboard Kit GB is over. My guess is, since the custom parts (PCB and case) have separate group buys still going on on MD, if you email or better use Live Chat, you can get an order in.
PCB and case GBs end Friday morning (Pacific time), so I believe it's possible to order a kit until that time if you contact them. However once they order the PCBs (PCBwing is in China, no?) then that should be the real point of no return.

BTW I wanted to change case material in of my orders, first I tried email but in the end with Live Chat I was able to sort out everything. So as other people reported, Live Chat is the best way for custom / extra requests.

[Findecanor]

BTW, you can now order PCBs with destination Sweden using the order form on Massdrop. I ordered myself a pair.

I already have Teensy, switches and keycaps. Will build case. Now, I need only that other chip and a few cables.

[SubGothius]

any picture of the bottom of the case yet? I want to see how they made the legs work, or not.

They did include the screwholes you included on your design, I believe. They had rubber screw caps in the photos from the assembly (you can see them in the photos next to the screws--they're rounded red cones) but these aren't part of the buy.

I knew where they got these at some point, but I can't for the life of me find the email that detailed them. I fear it might have been in a transient chat or something. I think it started with a Mc, like McDougall or something. Sound familiar to anyone?

Perhaps McMaster-Carr? They supply all sorts of commodity hardware, and I found these:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#rubber-bumpers/=l9lh1w

Note each type has a wide variety of subtypes, shapes and sizes -- e.g., the threaded bumpers have a threaded-hole version that you could prolly thread right onto the bottom of your case screws, or use the with-holes type to surround the standard bottom nuts. I'm thinking the push-in type would suffice if the bottom plate is supplied with separate holes for mounting feet.

Also check your local hardware or auto parts stores; they generally have a selection of many/most of the types McMaster lists above.

I may be replacing my inboard-side case screws with longer ones to support tenting, perhaps with tall coupling nuts on the ends for adjustability, then I could just put a rubber cap on those.

[bisl]

That's the one! They had thought about sourcing components from McMaster-Carr, but ultimately the red ones seen in the photos are just generic rubber screw-caps from home depot or something.

[gdaian]

Where exactly on massdrop's website is the live chat?

[sordna]

When you are logged in, on any page you see a blue box on the bottom right. It either says "Contact us" or "Live chat" depending on whether someone is available.

[gdaian]

I see why I missed it then: the Ghostery extension blocks the chat module.

[ic07]

(cross-post)

Since no one who's asked has reported back yet... lol: I just chatted with Mark at Massdrop, and they're thinking the kits will be shipping in 3-6 weeks - determined by whichever part takes the longest, probably either the cases or the PCBs. The PCB order has gone in already, but since it's Chinese New Year the factories are empty at the moment.