(Model MF) Remodeling the Model M (aka.. the Mara)

fohat · 11 Nov 2016, 23:21

If anybody cuts SDL cables, they should leave a few inches of wire and keep the SDL end.

Apparently SDL plugs are very hard to find and people often look for repair parts.

Last, the plastic that IBM used in its vintage M cables is very tough and hard to cut and work with.

BinaryHalibut · 12 Nov 2016, 03:52

Mouser stocks SDL plugs, they're just relatively expensive (I think like ~$5 + shipping for all the bits) and it's kind of confusing as to what parts you need.

POTV · 12 Nov 2016, 08:06

Thanks for the advices regarding SDL cables - they belong in a museum

lot_lizard · 12 Nov 2016, 15:27

I have a lead on some "Code" keys. For those that don't recall or missed, it is the very unique key size from IBM Wheelwriter typewriters that will enable us to use the split spacebar (see below). I don't know yet how many we are really talking about, but assuming at least a few If it works out. Fingers crossed

Vizir · 12 Nov 2016, 17:17

Oh sweet! I've been on the lookout for a couple of those.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

lot_lizard · 12 Nov 2016, 17:41

I do have a request regarding the IBM Replacement Badge that WCass developed and Seebart ran the group buy for. We obviously want to order these for our Phase 1, but I really want these ran as two separate group buys to keep our larger project out of any legality scenarios. It would be a long shot anything happened, but we are in the clear for everything else, so why risk it.

I know it is going to be a pain, but I will add a link to the order page for the separate Marketplace Group Buy badge thread where you can place an order with a separate person (looking for a volunteer to collect money and run that thread). When we are all wrapped up, that person would place one large order for everything, and then forward that shipment to me once they receive it, along with the list of who gets what. We would be doing this oval badge for both the full-size and SSK. Again, I know it adds a bit of hassle, but at least it will still come to everyone in one package and I am just acting as a shipping proxy for the badge group buy.

Again, if anyone is interested in running that thread (preferably you are from the US to save on the shipment to me), let us know.

lot_lizard · 12 Nov 2016, 18:35

One more poll. This is in regards to having new stainless steel springs made that are an exact replica of the originals. There are some upsides to this in that modern metal is more consistent, and all the springs would be coming from a single batch for consistency. This would be to order a pack of springs we have made specifically for us, and then you re-assemble the flippers yourself if it was interesting. Earlier we got this quote because we are going to be producing our own switches. With the Cindy haul, that was no longer needed. That said, I am still up for ordering if there is enough interest.

POTV · 12 Nov 2016, 18:45

Just a quick thought - maybe it already is so, but I propose that club members with the most posts / the largest activity should be first in line to benefit from this group buy. (No, I´m not among them)

We are quite a few who look over their shoulders without adding much, compared...

Hypersphere · 12 Nov 2016, 18:52

Voted for springs. Might as well have them as an option!

Regarding SDL, Orihalcon has a variety of SDL cables for sale on eBay. They are a bit pricey, but considering their relative scarcity, the prices seem reasonable. The SDL to USB cables are very nice -- straight cable and built-in active converter. Unicomp also has coiled SDL to PS/2 cables for $15.

tentator · 12 Nov 2016, 20:00

I'd definitely take springs.. also to replace some rusty ones I've in a model f XT. ..

lot_lizard · 12 Nov 2016, 23:53

Wingpad has stepped up to be our "wingman" (har-har) on the replacement badge group buy. I, and everyone here, appreciate you stepping up. I will include the Marketplace thread he opens in our Phase 1 order thread.

Also, it looks like the springs have more interest than I originally anticipated. I have acquired multiple quotes, but there is a company that is domestic I have worked with in my work life. Their quote was very competitive based on phone calls and basic dimensions provided (ID, OD, and coil count). My plan is to send them a few of the springs itself and say "make this!!!". I will add it to the form as 9 cents a piece, and if we are unable to hit MOQ.... refund any of the spring orders. Assuming we hit it, I will make it a "weight plus" concept (I'm not counting these things

). So if 50 springs weighs X, and you ordered 100, you would receive 105% of X so we know we have you covered. If we receive high volumes of orders, I'll figure out a way to get shipping down. Still working out the proxy Euro concept

Techno Trousers · 12 Nov 2016, 23:59

Cool! I'll be in for springs, for sure. When you have time, can you talk a bit about the spring replacement itself? Do we need to soak in mineral oil for stainless springs? What's the best way to detach and attach the flipper? Any gotchas we should look out for?

lot_lizard · 13 Nov 2016, 00:10

Techno Trousers wrote: ↑Cool! I'll be in for springs, for sure. When you have time, can you talk a bit about the spring replacement itself? Do we need to soak in mineral oil for stainless springs? What's the best way to detach and attach the flipper? Any gotchas we should look out form

I decided a while back based on feedback from XMIT and Orhalicon to Teflon (dry lube) the moving parts. I tried, and it certainly provides benefit to the plastic barrels and stems (do not use on flipper paddles). I planned on doing all barrels in a Teflon bath. The springs that we are ordering are stainless, so that is less interesting than it would have been if standard steel for rust reasons. That said, I will do them all anyway since I have equipment on hand to do things in bulk, and will already be doing it for the Cindy haul springs.

Assembly... I have a jig made up already, but I'm putting these things back on in BULK. For the 200 you might, I would just do by hand with patience. The more pressure you could apply without spring torsion, the better. As long as the springs seat fully, and remain perfectly vertical when released... You're good based on my limited experiments.

EDIT: It touched up several words and phrases because that was an iPhone mess post

Techno Trousers · 13 Nov 2016, 02:20

Thanks, that's great info!

XMIT · 13 Nov 2016, 02:37

Check in with ohaimark, he wanted to play with making lighter or heavier buckling springs and it sounds like your manufacturer might be able to do this.

ohaimark · 13 Nov 2016, 02:46

Already contacted lot_lizard about it. Looks like he's going to hit the 55g mark, which is pretty close to what I was going for.

giokkk · 13 Nov 2016, 02:55

Voted for spring!

XMIT · 13 Nov 2016, 05:35

~50g actuation sounds great to me.

lot_lizard · 13 Nov 2016, 05:39

You guys really do make decisions easy in a short period of time with all of this without silly bumping. Appreciate the voting.

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On a MUCH bigger note, we have the PCB prototypes in from WCass. I can't say enough about how I respect what you come up with, and we appreciate your help.

As a reminder, this will utilize a "slip-on" (equals no soldering for assembly) style connector from the PCB to the new mini-xWhatsit. So as time proceeds, and controllers improve (aka.. DMA does his thing), we would be able to upgrade more simply. Below are some crude screen shots that don't capture scale well, but you should see the improved routes, reduced through-holes, integration of optional split spacebar, and slip-on connector. I will order and test these in both layouts, along minor improvements I can now make to our plates (as an example, the connector is bumped several mm(s) right on both, providing for a much better top ridge design. Also, I'll take this opportunity to verify powder coating tolerance changes of barrel holes. But for the PCBs, aside from slapping some project propaganda and i$ credits on the silkscreens, we have something project specific that I HIGHLY like.

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drevyek · 13 Nov 2016, 05:49

It's a strange feeling, being able to tinker with a lot of these variables that had seemed set in stone. A lighter BS! It really opens up the playing field for even deeper customization.

And Bravo on the PCBs! It looks perfect.

jorgenslee · 13 Nov 2016, 12:26

When will the GB start? Can't afford at the moment but hopefully could after a week or two.

lot_lizard · 13 Nov 2016, 14:19

jorgenslee wrote: ↑When will the GB start? Can't afford at the moment but hopefully could after a week or two.

It is slated to open up today sometime. I just need to find some "couch time" to throw together a couple of last minute things. It will run for a multiple weeks though (4 is a guess). I have a reasonable number of switches that need new homes

livingspeedbump · 13 Nov 2016, 15:12

lot_lizard wrote: ↑
jorgenslee wrote: ↑When will the GB start? Can't afford at the moment but hopefully could after a week or two.
It is slated to open up today sometime. I just need to find some "couch time" to throw together a couple of last minute things. It will run for a multiple weeks though (4 is a guess). I have a reasonable number of switches that need new homes

excellent. this has been a fantastic thread to follow. one of the most exciting GB's I've seen in a very long time.

XMIT · 13 Nov 2016, 15:46

Probably too late to add 12 Function keys to the left side of the PCB (like my "fleXMIT layout"). Oh well.

What ever happened to the after-market case options? Sure, I can repurpose a Model M case, but a CNC case would be neat. I guess I can try to make one if I need to.

I would probably try to find a "Unicomp Ultra Classic" case for a (very slightly) smaller form factor.

Not to knock the existing project at all. Making things is hard. Thank you for throwing this all together. I'll buy one for sure. Some of those Model F parts will come back my way now.

Hypersphere · 13 Nov 2016, 15:56

Exactly two years ago, I posted the following question on DT:

"Feasibility Check: Convert SSK to Model F Switches?"

You might find it amusing to see the responses at that time:

workshop-f7/feasibility-check-convert-s ... t9115.html

In any event, it is exciting to see this project coming to fruition. Once again, reality is more astounding than fiction!

lot_lizard · 13 Nov 2016, 16:36

We have a version 2 of the order form. I would appreciate feedback that everything functions as expected for basic needs, amounts seem to tally accurately, and we haven't overlooked any parts we want to add?

I added a few cents onto the ClickyKeyboard case screws and Unicomp stablizer inserts to cover the bulk shipping from them if wondering why the prices are slightly higher than their "rack rate". Hopefully would save you at least a little on shipping.

I am by no stretch saying there aren't constraints for part dependencies that the form doesn't validate, but hopefully this is sufficient for the obvious stuff. I still plan to double check orders and confirm my interpretation with each of you as we invoice. The downside of ala-carte ordering (constraints), upside... we don't force you to order more than your unique case may warrant.

Model MF Phase 1 Order Form.xlsx: (79.86 KiB) Downloaded 167 times

XMIT wrote: ↑What ever happened to the after-market case options? Sure, I can repurpose a Model M case, but a CNC case would be neat. I guess I can try to make one if I need to.

This phase we are just going to focus on the drop-in replacement. The next phase will take a while to work out something that is novel with the BS switch that likely won't be backwards compatible to any existing shell. In-between Phase 1 and 2, we will play with cases for Phase 1 as intermediate projects (metal, resin, wood, etc). My attention span is just too short to not try to wrap this one up now

fohat · 13 Nov 2016, 17:01

What are "plate fasteners"?

Are they included in the full kit? And those side shields and case screws and whatnot?

Hypersphere · 13 Nov 2016, 17:06

I had assumed that a plate fastener was a bolt or screw. It is something different?

lot_lizard · 13 Nov 2016, 17:08

fohat wrote: ↑What are "plate fasteners"?

Are they included in the full kit? And those side shields and case screws and whatnot?

I'll add some notes there for the fasteners. They are the stainless screws, nuts, locking nuts, washers, and o-rings. They are included in the kit. There is a note on the same line as "Kit", but I'll be more specific what's included. Everything you mentioned would be except the case (outer shell) screws. We were going to order some because of the industrial cases we picked up previously from Unicomp didn't have them.

Norman_ · 13 Nov 2016, 17:11

So uhh, i just got pointed to this thread by wingpad's thread for the badges, and what this thread desperately needs is a rundown of what's happening.

I'm really interested, but not 50 pages of discussion interested

Edit: For example, what exactly are you offering? If i wanted to make a keyboard from the ground up through this GB what do i need to order from you, what can't i get from you, etc?

What would i be missing if i already had a Model M ready to sacrifice?