Brexit: The DT Poll

[webwit]

Yet still the prosecution of free speech is a real movement. Explain.

[fohat]

Yet still the prosecution of free speech is a real movement. Explain.

Fear is the greatest motivator.

As soon as someone can succeed in convincing some mass of people that [something] is more frightening than the loss of freedom, then that thing takes priority and freedoms start being discarded.

[webwit]

Maybe because of what others said, that there is no difference between generations. Which also implies that people forget the lessons of history. WWII makes cool movies now, at best.

[fohat]

that there is no difference between generations

I think that the ubiquity of the internet and the pervasiveness of filter bubbles instill a false sense of comprehensive discourse in the minds of many people, when in fact they end up more ignorant than ever.

The Founding Fathers were depending on a free press to keep the electorate informed. Ironic that the power of the "information age" has been so deliberately misdirected and often squandered. Google leads the charge with its smug false-neutral arrogance as it pretends to be the field-leveling egalitarian overlord.

[kbdfr]

[precise analysis of google links provided]
[…] So your affirmation [quoting you:] "Now we have […] Germany arresting their citizens for critisizing their government" proves to not even be an exaggeration, but nothing than a simple lie.
[…]

Well, the arrests were done, I can search for more sources for you, because you obviously can't google. […]

You keep telling me I can't google. OK, let's assume I can't google.
Being the one who is asserting things, you are the one who has to prove them, not the other way round.
Similarly, if I were to affirm the Pope is an alien, then it's me who would have to prove it, isn't it?
Would you then call it a proof if all I can provide is Google links to other people just also saying the Pope is an alien?

That's exactly what you are doing.
None of the links you posted indicates a single case of [quoting you again] "Germany arresting their citizens for critisizing their government".
There is a simple reason to that: it is just not true,
and you are either a liar or a a gullible idiot.

So yes, I accept your offer [quoting you] "the arrests were done, I can search for more sources for you".
Indicating a town where "Germany arrest[ed] their citizens for critisizing their government" would be a good beginning.

[adhoc]

Naw, I refuse to do this, actually. You want a link from one of the few media you consume to "prove your point". I consume both left and right winged media and even then realize the picture I get back in return is still skewed. A simple google search will give you dozens of links showing Germany arresting their citizens for criticizing the stance your government has taken lately on the public media, but you refuse to believe it, because it's not written *shock* in one of the government censored media outlets. It's a battle that can not be won. It's a battle against arguments such as "this is russian propaganda", "this is nazi material", "this is invalid because I say it is", or you will flat out ignore some of the sources I post, as you have done in the past.

I just find it amazing how you'll point out slippery slope as a fallacy for some topics, but not others. Like, say, speech censorship.

Yes, yes, I'm an idiot for not blindly reading a single media outlet and believe everything it feeds me. Whatever you do, just don't have anything bad to say against your Huxley utopia!

[jacobolus]

The Founding Fathers were depending on a free press to keep the electorate informed.

The founding fathers were libelously smearing each-other in all kinds of shady pamphlets. American politics have always been full of nastiness, misinformation, and nonsense. The US government has started wars on false pretenses (or more properly, lies) throughout its history, arrested people for all kinds of bogus reasons, been just as full of corruption and scandal as anywhere else, etc.. I’ve seen little evidence that the current generation is any worse informed than any past generation.

Of course, basically every country has this problem. It’s more consequence of human nature than any specific cultural trend. And just because the past is full of nonsense doesn’t mean we should put up with it in the present.

[Halvar]

(deleted, not a worthwhile discussion)

[cookie]

The german laws are a bit harsh in my view , banning certain symbols even from textbooks and historic educational videos and films and so on.

I totally get why , it just always reminds me of the quote. "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." I know thats a bit far fetched but every slippery slope starts with a single step.

That exactly pissed me off playing Southpark: Stick of Truth... They've totally censored the Nazi Zombies

[seebart]

The german laws are a bit harsh in my view , banning certain symbols even from textbooks and historic educational videos and films and so on.

I totally get why , it just always reminds me of the quote. "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." I know thats a bit far fetched but every slippery slope starts with a single step.

That exactly pissed me off playing Southpark: Stick of Truth... They've totally censored the Nazi Zombies

Get the DVD / BD.

[jacobolus]

In totally unrelated political news...

And San Francisco just voted to enact a ballot measure requiring new property developments to include 25% on-site affordable housing or pay for separate development of off-site housing amounting to 33% of the construction.

Which sounds nice, but in practice is going to further reduce development, driving the gap in that chart even wider. :/

[cookie]

@Seebart I don't possess a "Physical" player anymore

I'd still like to hear some explanation why some people think that leaving the EU is a good thing for the UK?

[seebart]

@Seebart I don't possess a "Physical" player anymore

OK I know what you mean, then it's a DRM thing which I will not get into.

[cookie]

I only know DRM from Audio Files, it is so 2003
Actually it was a steam download but yeah, sometimes this censorship is quite annoying even though I understand the higher meaning of it but I feel old enough to distinguish between a joke and some serious Nazi stuff...

[scottc]

The german laws are a bit harsh in my view , banning certain symbols even from textbooks and historic educational videos and films and so on.

I totally get why , it just always reminds me of the quote. "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." I know thats a bit far fetched but every slippery slope starts with a single step.

That exactly pissed me off playing Southpark: Stick of Truth... They've totally censored the Nazi Zombies

Yeah, interestingly enough, when I used an app to calculate the price of my Steam library if it were new (yeah... don't ask...), the calculator was a few euro short because it assumed I had a German Steam account and ignored some games like "Sniper Elite: Nazi Zombie Army" (I think I got it free in a bundle with other games... ) because they're banned in Germany.

[cookie]

Which is ridiculous....

Gesendet von meinem Nexus 5 mit Tapatalk

[Muirium]

Do not underestimate the nazi zombie apocalypse! Vigilance. Their far right wing sympathizers want to condition us to think it's just a joke. So that when it comes, we're dopes and play along. Never! It is vital that we take it seriously. Zombies are all fine and well, but national socialist zombies Must Be Stopped!


@Jacobulus: San Francisco must be getting whiter by the day, as only tech startup kids can afford to live there. We all know how pitifully underrepresented most minorities are in engineering. I suppose one good thing is that most of these men want to live with women, because their wives surely outnumber the female engineers by a wide margin! But perhaps the good liberal custodians of the city ought to figure out some way of promoting mixed race cohabitation, because a black-free San Francisco isn't San Francisco at all.

I kid. But only a little. You guys have got problems with all that cash.


@Cookie:
Photekq said he'd make the case when he has time. Because, yeah, we're mostly Remainers here. In the meantime, here's a good one:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk ... withdrawal

[Muirium]

Gesendet von meinem Nexus 5 mit Crapatalk

COOKIE!!

off-topic-f10/tapatalk-sig-spam-pisses- ... t=Tapatalk

I so want to ban their stinky, dripping arse. Making such a mess of our forum!

[seebart]

Gesendet von meinem Nexus 5 mit Spamyouwithcraptalk

Sent from my desktop typing on a Wang 725-3770 / Alps SKCM Orange.

[cookie]

Sorry fellas, I'll see if I can deactivate this.
I like to use Crapatalk, shit keeps me updated especially useful to answer PMs as quick as possible.
Very useful when Organizing a GB, you can't imagine what questions, problems, whatever people have.

But I admit the signature is annoying as hell!!!!

[kbdfr]

[…] So yes, I accept your offer [quoting you] "the arrests were done, I can search for more sources for you".
Indicating a town where "Germany arrest[ed] their citizens for critisizing their government" would be a good beginning.

Naw, I refuse to do this, actually. You want a link from one of the few media you consume to "prove your point". I consume both left and right winged media and [blah blah blah]

You don't "refuse", you're just back-pedalling because you cannot.
You first offer to provide evidence, and when I accept your offer, instead of doing so you just once again pretend that [quoting you] "A simple google search will give you dozens of links showing Germany arresting their citizens for criticizing the stance your government has taken lately on the public media".

Which of course is pure bullshit, no matter what people like you keep posting without the slightest evidence just because they read it somewhere from people like you who keep posting it without the slightest evidence just because they read it somewhere from people like you who […]

You say [quoting you] "dozens of links", but cannot provide any verifiable information such as the name of a single town where a single person was arrested for criticizing the German government (not for burning down a refugee center or committing other hate crimes, but for criticizing the government).

What you provide is gossip entirely plucked out of thin air, nothing else.

[Muirium]

B…bbut the Googles said it's true, dude! The Internet don't lie. How could it?

Meanwhile, I finally found a succinct case for Britain leaving the EU:



Looks legit.

[fohat]

What you provide is gossip entirely plucked out of thin air, nothing else.

This is why I stopped responding to Redmaus, too.

[seebart]

This is turning into an epic kbdfr / adhoc thread. You picked a worthy opponent adhoc!

[Muirium]

IT IS NOT GOSSIP IT IS ON THE INTERNET, THE INTERNET!! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU. THIS HORSESHIT IS FROM A GOOD SOURCE. ITS CALLED GOOGLE, OLD MAN. QUIT IGNORING THE TRUTH BEFORE YOURE EYES. I DON'T EVEN…

[seebart]

You OK Mu? It's called gooooooooooooogle... I suspect internal thread combustion here soon.

[fohat]

Anybody who has not seen this talk, or read the book, needs to get on it right away:

https://www.ted.com/talks/eli_pariser_b ... anguage=en

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1059 ... ter-bubble

[cookie]

Anybody who has not seen this talk, or read the book, needs to get on it right away:

https://www.ted.com/talks/eli_pariser_b ... anguage=en

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1059 ... ter-bubble

This is so wrong and scary at the same time!

[Muirium]

People have always been deeply misled. The techniques are new, but the motive and the means have always been there.

[adhoc]

Naw man, it's just that arguing with you is pointless. You're convinced, your arguments are bullshit (the internet is invalid, all media is invalid except the only one I read, etc.). Just let it go man, enjoy the utopia.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/04 ... dia-posts/

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2 ... bsite.html

http://www.infowars.com/germany-orders- ... dia-posts/

https://www.informationliberation.com/?id=54550

http://www.amren.com/news/2016/04/polic ... dia-posts/

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/11/12 ... -anti.html

http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-new ... rnet-posts

http://rightwingnews.com/top-news/alert ... s-germany/

http://planetfreewill.com/2016/04/07/ge ... t-posters/

http://www.dw.com/en/berlin-police-raid ... a-18845429

http://libertyunyielding.com/2016/04/07 ... dia-posts/

http://www.therebel.media/berlin_police ... cial_media

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... book-posts

http://madworldnews.com/german-politici ... -refugees/

https://www.cnet.com/news/germany-is-pu ... -internet/

http://madworldnews.com/germany-censorship-facebook/

http://louderwithcrowder.com/facebook-h ... 1hBjpF94wE

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20160201/ ... rship.html

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01 ... te-speech/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/eu ... story.html

http://www.theverge.com/2015/9/15/93291 ... nt-refugee

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europ ... SKCN0UW25C

http://universalfreepress.com/2016/merk ... e-created/

http://www.independentsentinel.com/soci ... ensorship/

http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/face ... ee-speech/

https://cs.stanford.edu/people/eroberts ... olicy.html

https://www.rt.com/news/316821-xenophob ... ld-rights/

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2015/12/1 ... migration/

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/27/angela-m ... posts.html

http://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-arr ... 1461072108

https://jonathanturley.org/2016/01/08/g ... on-speech/

https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2016/0 ... te-speech/