Salmon vs Orange Alps

[LambdaCore]

I'm kinda curious as someone who has never used either before, which is the better of the two and how significant is the difference? If someone were to find a board with Orange alps in average condition, salmon alps in good condition or vice versa, which should you go for? I've heard oranges tend to be favored, but some have claimed it is pretty minor while others claim it's not. I get the impression the jump between salmon/orange is similar to white/blue from the research I've done.

[CaesarAZealad]

Typing on restored orange alps right now. Sadly I don't have experience with salmon, but I can tell you these are AMAZING post wax+paper. Nice, strong, tactile bump that feels like it's happening alongside the switch action instead of interrupting it like cherry switches.

[hellothere]

Cherry makes a tactile switch?
You knew someone was going to make this joke.

[LambdaCore]

Interesting! I'm inheriting an old standard adb apple keyboard, I saw one switch and it was clearly salmon but in pretty good condition, I ordered an ADB connector and I'm not sure if it'll get here in time, but I'm just curious if I'm missing anything since now I'll have the adapter

[Polecat]

Everyone is probably tired of me trying to make this point, but dadgummit not all white Alps are the same! (and not all blue Alps are the same...probably to a lesser degree). Early white Alps are to me indistinguishable from (late) blues, specifically the ones with unbranded upper housings. There were several (?) changes over the lifetime of white Alps that affected the sound and feel. I'm not a user of orange or salmon Alps, but this may well be true of those also. It's a disservice to others to lump all white (or blue) Alps switches together, and a delusion to think you know what they feel or sound like after trying just one example. Sorry about the rant, but there's a lot more to the Alps story than many of us have been led to believe.

[LambdaCore]

I've heard about the unbranded upper housings, but not much else outside of that. Is there any specific identifier with the earlier white alps? I've only used a few white alps boards, my FK-2001 is from 89 I believe? So is the Omnikey Plus I'm getting tomorrow ironically lol

[Polecat]

I don't know if anyone really knows the whole story.

A crackpot theory of mine is that the mold markings on the upper right corner got bigger with time. That marking has one or two numeric digits, followed by a single letter. The letter is probably a "cavity" number, from a mold that had (I believe) 16 cavities, A through P. The numeric part was possibly a "generation" number, as older, worn-out molds got replaced by new ones. If that's true (and I have no proof it is) then the numeric part of the marking would be an indicator of how early a particular batch of switches was made.

But of course it's more complicated than that. We've seen blue Alps with branded upper housings. And then there are the white and blue Alps with "scrawly" mold markings. And let's not forget the white complicated (Alps?) switches from 1992-1993 with 1x mold markings and no branding whatsoever on upper or lower housings.

It has been suggested that there were two or more factories producing these switches. Another idea (which I don't particularly believe) is that rejected housings were stolen and used by someone else to produce fake Alps switches. There may be more info on the subject in early posts here, or more likely in the Asian collector sites, which are not easy to translate. I'm a relative newcomer here, and I'm still trying to catch up. I'm no expert by any means. But just from my own experience I know there are significant differences between white Alps switches. And that's exactly my point--that it's a misconception to think that one example of a particular Alps switch is a definitive experience.

[LambdaCore]

Interesting, well I'll let you know how different the white alps feel in the Northgate, assuming it has white alps (I don't actually know for sure, but unless someone had been tampering it is most certainly white alps) as for salmons, I wouldn't be too shocked if that's the case and it would explain the wildly varying opinions on them.

To be fair I can't blame people for that misconception, it's really hard to tell the difference beyond feel, and to pour salt into the wound Alps switches are already vulnerable to dust so some experiences might be coming from different conditions (e.g. someone might have had clean late blue alps, dirty early white alps and attributed the difference to the switch itself and not the condition) and beyond that, even regardless of different factories, I wouldn't be shocked if different batches sometimes came out better than others in of itself

[Polecat]

Absolutely true that condition is a factor. But in my opinion the Alps "dust" card is overplayed. I've been using Alps switches for over thirty years now. I don't live in a cleanroom, and besides blowing the dust out of my keyboards maybe once a year I've done absolutely nothing special to keep them clean besides trying not to spill food and drink into them. I banged away on a Monterey K104 (white Alps) for ten years and it literally never missed a keystroke in all that time. I'd still be using it if I hadn't worn the legends off the caps.

I actually do have one salmon Alps keyboard--an Apple M0016. I haven't compared it to oranges or other salmons, but it puts every black Alps board I've tried to shame.

[LambdaCore]

That's great to hear! I've heard oranges are some of the best tactile switches bar none, and even those who claim salmon just aren't as good usually argue it's not super far behind, something to do with a stiffer weighting? That might actually benefit me in particular though since I always bottom out on white alps lol

And that is nice to hear, albeit I've never used a NOS Alps board aside from a few matias boards that never felt as good as my daily driver keyboard that dates back to 1989, far older than I am myself. That's the tricky thing, I get the impression there are a lot of misconceptions regarding Alps, but I guess that's bound to happen. I guess the best thing to do is appreciate how good the board in front of you is instead of chasing after the slightly older board with a blue slider.

[ntv242ver2]

My 2 coins:

- with the early alps i would also go for quality first before type. Orange vs salmon, green vs yellow vs skcl cream, etc etc. reason being springs are avail to adjust to your liking, switches conditions are much harder to restore (despite recent developments of technique such as wax boil). For things like white and black which are later and inferior switches (put down pitchfork folks it is my 2 coins again) i would rather not go for them despite being nos even.

- salmon has diff weighting but that also alter the feel of the switch. To me it is much more rounded feeling, and of course heavier. To go for which largely depends on your preference, if you can tolerate the heavy aspect of salmon you will come to love the tactile feel of it. I personally prefer salmon, but in my exp, i often acquire more good orange than salmon. Very rarely i come across salmon that is perfectly smooth. I guess the change in plastic has st to do with it. But i am not 100% sure

[LambdaCore]

Interesting! Thanks for your take on the matter, I bottom out a lot on SKCM White so I doubt the heavier switch will matter, I do like the sound of a more rounded feel though, not as harsh I suppose. I guess I'll find out if the keyboard I'm inheriting has clean switches, but from the photos it looked extremely clean despite some harsh yellowing

[nobatron]

I have both, and I really like both. I'd say salmon are a touch heavier but there's not a huge amount in it.

Normally I'd probably say whichever is in the best condition is probably going to be the nicer switch to use, but the waxboil technique will restore most switches to a decent condition now.

Also those old Apple keyboards are great. M0115 and M0116 are probably my favourite alps boards.

[LambdaCore]

I'm getting the M0116 and I bought the ADB adapter, I'm hoping I'll map the clear key to a numlock and create a decent nav cluster inside the numpad on an alternate layer if the Drakware adapter allows for it, if it does then that might make the layout one of my favorites actually.

[LambdaCore]

The M0116 arrived! All Salmons as I suspected, sounds immaculate though! I can't use it yet as the ADB adapter hasn't arrived yet, but holy cow I can't wait to use, if that adapter allows me to add a function and numlock layer then I think I'll straight up use this as my daily driver

[JCMax]

How does the tactility on it feel? Can you compare to say a Complicated Blue Alps switch or Buckling Spring? I would be very curious about that.

[LambdaCore]

Don't have SKCM Blue Alps to test, but I'd say it's much lighter than SKCM White, I definitely feel that roundedness to the key feel as well. The best way I could describe it, and this might sound weird, but how big fans of Topre describe how those switches feel is how these salmon alps feel to me. Not cheap rubber dome feeling, but rounded and soft with just the right amount of tactility, feels near perfect. I also utterly love the sound in the M0116 chassis, I tried swapping the parts into another chassis and it just wasn't the same, in the M0116 chassis it's super bassy and gives a very satisfying deep sound without it being too overbearing. I utterly love them!

[Jacobalbertus1]

i have tried both salmon and orange boards and both are fairly good

[ntv242ver2]

How does the tactility on it feel? Can you compare to say a Complicated Blue Alps switch or Buckling Spring? I would be very curious about that.

Definitely orange to apple regarding bs vs alps.

Blue alps also is lighter, and is a clicky switch when salmon is tactile

[LambdaCore]

How does the tactility on it feel? Can you compare to say a Complicated Blue Alps switch or Buckling Spring? I would be very curious about that.

Blue alps also is lighter, and is a clicky switch when salmon is tactile

I find that funny, since at least compared to SKCM Whites, I find the salmon switches far lighter in feel. The closest switch I've used are the Matias Quiet Click switches, however far smoother with a much deeper sound to it. I like the Quiet Clicks but I think the salmons from first impressions are even better and might even dethrone SKCM Whites for me, probably a sign I oughta track down some oranges and make a decision myself.

[ntv242ver2]

The thing about skcm white is, when they are good yes they are superb, but most of them actually are really bindy even if they are squeaky clean! Hence what you think is heavier is actually the switch binding - resisting to press in the beginning rather, I hope you know what i mean. Smooth salmon is just so smooth and cancel out the weight.

I hope my non sense makes some sense.

[LambdaCore]

I sorta get it, what's weird is my FK-2001's switches are smoother but much heavier compared to my Omnikey Plus which are a teensy bit rougher but go down far quicker and I actually think feel a decent bit nicer.

[Polecat]

Not weird at all, this is Alps we're talking about. And that was exactly my point above. I'd be interested to know if salmons and oranges went through as many changes as white Alps? I'm glad you're happy with the Apple salmon keyboard. I need to dig mine out and try it again.

[LambdaCore]

When I get home from work, I'll be getting the ADB to USB adapter so I'll get to rest it in action. Pretty damn excited!

[hellothere]

Not weird at all, this is Alps we're talking about. And that was exactly my point above. I'd be interested to know if salmons and oranges went through as many changes as white Alps? I'm glad you're happy with the Apple salmon keyboard. I need to dig mine out and try it again.

I've had and had 6 or 7 orange Alps. They can have variation in spring color: silver, copper, and gold. They have differences in switch plate size and color (white or grey). I'm of the opinion that the grey switch plate ones are older than the tall white ones and the short white switch plates are the "newest." As far as a quick review, they're a little too light for me, but are pretty nice.

I've had probably 8 salmon Alps. I have not seen any variation on switch plate size or color. I don't remember if I've seen any spring color changes. To me, these feel like early white Alps or late blue Alps that aren't clicky. Mitsumi Mechanical (not "miniature mechanical") switches feel a lot like salmon Alps. I've only had two keyboards -- one's right next to me -- with the Mitsumi switches and I think they're pretty OK.

My favorite Alps switches are tactile brown and cream damped. As Polecat mentioned, some blue Alps and some white Alps can feel fantastic. Some are just "meh." Some whites can be better than some blues.

Regarding orange Alps, I did try the paper mod in a few switches and it makes a significant difference. Enough so that I bought a square hole punch. I need to try this mod for a full keyboard to see if I like it. I've got this Apple Extended Keyboard also sitting right next to me ...

I have tried at least 4 Matias keyboards. I think Alps switches are better than Matias's and Matias's switches are mostly clones of simplified Alps switches.