Siemens: mechanical or not?

[Half-Saint]

http://www.bolha.com/racunalnistvo/tipk ... 1378816706

Someone was selling a board exactly like this one for 10€...

[Findecanor]

I can find no description of the keyboard on the page that you link to.

[7bit]

Some are and some are not. I got one which was a rubberdome and I've got 2 which are mechanical.

The keyboard in the photo looks like it is backlit, BTW.
My guess, it is a rubberdome. The 2 Tandberg keyboards I've got are with black foam.

ps: One post at DT and you fall back into your keyboard addiction.

[Findecanor]

What photo are you talking about? I still see no photo!

[7bit]

Works even without JavaScript:
See the light/yellow shine between the key caps in the top left rows?

Might be a reflection from the plstic sheet or plastic shell.

[Findecanor]

Doesn't work in Chromium, apparently. Thanks!
I have seen a Tandberg keyboard with keys like that. It had "ICL switches" or something very much like them.

[7bit]

Chromium?


You better upgrade to Netscape Navigator!

[ninjadoc]

Chromium?


You better upgrade to Netscape Navigator!

Netscape? Do you mean Mozilla Firefox? Fricking search is broke in the last two versions! Problem with Chrome is it tells Google everywhere you go. Forget that - my business not theirs!!

[ZeDolla]

I'm the owner of the keyboard- the background of the keyboard is all flashy because of my camera, as it is made out of metal. I've gotten a piece of info that suggets that switches use the Rafi-Hall principle to operate. Anyone know anything about this?

[dorkvader]

There have been keyboards with similar keycaps that use hall effect switches (cortron/rafi/itw, I don't know, they all look similar to me, and I don't own any yet) however, the same is true for cherry ML. If you were to remove a keycap, we would know (almost) for sure.

That said, I don't know of any metal-plate mounted cherry ML switches, so I doubt it's that.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=461 ... #msg974735
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TDV_2200

Note: also no metal plate on the hall effect one
http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/ ... ml#p102798

I am sure others know more about this than I, so I'll let them chime in. Until then, pictures or a description of the keyswitches would be excellent.

[ZeDolla]

Pictures with removed keycaps:

http://imgur.com/rvAjTDL,DVsVZfS

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I've gotten a piece of info that suggets that switches use the Rafi-Hall principle to operate. Anyone know anything about this?

I cannot be 100% certain about it, but Rafi is not ruled out. The keycap mounts could be Rafi, ITW/Cortron/Devlin.

I don't recognise the switch, but it's got a lot in common with what I've seen of Rafi. This is the only recorded instance of Rafi Hall effect (RS 76C) to date:

[wiki]RAFI RS 76C[/wiki]

[Daniel Beardsmore]

FWIW, I've just e-mailed a link to the big pic to someone at both Devlin and RAFI, to see if either of them know anything about it.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

OK, Devlin ruled out.

[ZeDolla]

Thanks man, I really appreciate it

[7bit]

Pictures with removed keycaps:

Looks mechanical to me.

edit: Indeed it is.


Sorry for my misinformaiton before.

There exist keyboards which look the same outside (same key cap design) but are rubberdomes. It is like with G83-3000 keyboards.

Keyfeel is similar to Cherry ML or a bit lighter than blacks.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

7bit: interesting, those opaque white switch tops are very RAFI-esque. I'm hoping RAFI can provide the actual part number. (Not sure what Cherry ML switches there are that feel like lighter blacks: my NIB ML switches are distinctly tactile, and very scratchy.)

Any idea what years these keyboards have on them? I'm guessing the switches were discontinued some years ago.

ZeDolla: I don't suppose you have a camera with macro capability and a flash, do you, so we can get a close-up shot of the shiny thing, i.e. are the switches plate mounted? I really can't tell from those photos what I'm looking at.

[7bit]

The keyboard is from the late 1980s. People used to say they feel like Cherry ML, or have as low travel as ML.

I remember they felt quite nice, linear like vintage blacks but a bit lighter.

My 105 AiS micro is on the way to me ...


ps: They are not plate mounted.

[ZeDolla]

I'm uploading

[ZeDolla]

Here are the additional photos

http://imgur.com/IsIurK1,8n21yr7,DjHCXal,fwnk0hV#0

[Daniel Beardsmore]

So what's that, some sort of EM radiation shield?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I tried APC Contech and Bytec (formerly rafi.co.uk), no word from either. I just re-sent both messages, and now Bytec's enquiry e-mail address (listed on their website) has ceased to exist! Just tried their contact form — which just ate my message without a word, which may just be typically rubbish programming.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Any chance of getting to see inside the switch, at least?

I've assigned this switch the ID [wiki]USw UQPW01[/wiki] for now, as I can't be certain whether it's metal contact or electromagnetic, nor do we have a brand confirmation. Slider code Q (square) as I don't know whether it's compatible with Cortron or RAFI mounts or indeed whether RAFI switches use Cortron mounts or whether their mounts have different dimensions.

No word from RAFI at all on this one — radio silence.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Interesting. I came across a Siemens portable computer today (old school 286 PAC-like luggable with 5.25" drive and IIRC a 5.25" HDD) with what appeared to be these switches. (I didn't want to risk pulling a keycap, but I could see what appeared to be the distinctive shape and colour of the switch underneath a keycap.)

I was expecting them to be linear. They were in fact distinctly tactile (more so than MX Brown).

7bit's are linear, so there appear to be two versions of this switch, linear and tactile.

[OleVoip]

Tandberg used Siemens-shaped keycaps on Cherry switches, so the keycap is no good indicator.
The switches in 7bit's photos are Siemens STB 21 switches. I've updated Daniel's wiki entry and moved it to "Siemens STB".

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Interesting, maybe that's why RAFI didn't say anything.

What makes them tactile — domes under the keycaps, or mechanical tactility?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

BTW, if you illustrate the page nicely, I might be forced to issue what would be only the second ever wiki gold star. My other concern is knowing how you know all the details — I'm guessing you have a datasheet that can be scanned in.

[OleVoip]

Hi Daniel,

here is a link to a bilingual Siemens catalog from the 1990s, http://www.datasheetarchive.com/dl/Data ... 022194.pdf
The section about the STB switches starts on page 80.

I once opened an STB switch -- the mechanics (and, to my mind, the feel) is similar to Cherry MX brown switches.
The tactile feel comes from the interaction between the slider and the vertical contact leaf.

Kind regards,
Ole

[002]

I might be forced to issue what would be only the second ever wiki gold star.

Wait...someone other than you did something on the wiki deserving of praise? I thought you were done with the wiki anyway? I'm sure I've read that about 12 times in the last few weeks...

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Whatever I encountered was a lot more tactile than MX brown — pity I can't even remember the name of the computer.

The specifications are surprisingly detailed.