Brexit: The DT Poll

[webwit]

Pvdqsx layout.

[seebart]

What layout is HAL ? Lithuanian ?

Spoiler:

Keyboard_washing_machine_community_2015-09-28.jpg (161.48 KiB) Viewed 4825 times

On a less funny note (this one's for webwit);

Dutch hairpopulist Geert Wilders who called the out the "nexit" failed for now but is getting another chance if Wilders wishes come true:

nexit.JPG (25.48 KiB) Viewed 4807 times

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... etherlands

[Findecanor]

Off-topic:

Spoiler:

What layout is HAL ? Lithuanian ?

2010k.jpg (19.05 KiB) Viewed 4778 times

You tell me... Anybody recognize that keyboard? It is from 2010 though.

[webwit]

Ah we won't get a Nexit referendum anytime soon unless the PVV and the SP (anti-europe socialist party) get over 2/3rd of the votes. The rest is pro-EU. Our referendum law only covers yes/no for new policies and laws. But a Nexit would mean a change in the constitution, which needs a 2/3rd majority in both chambers. We have so many political parties, disagreeing, that 2/3rd for anything is out of the question. Our current coalition is the Dutch torries and labour together, only because there was no other way to get a majority, and in the polls they now have less than half of what they had. Wilders is just trying to get votes, but he'll never get enough for that.

Here's politics for you: we have a party called D66, which was founded on the premise of more direct democracy and referendums. That was what they were about. They never got the amount of votes to get everything they wanted, but what they got is the referendum law we now have, watered down from what they really wanted. They are also the most pro-EU party. And made a 180 degree turn. Their new promise is that they will never ever vote in favour of a referendum about the EU. Because it's too complex for the little people. Their dead founder is turning in his grave.

[vivalarevolución]

I really wonder if that is any better than the USA's fake democracy plutocracy.

[webwit]

It's shite because we always have coalitions where the parties have to betray their consequential meaningless promises, and they lose the next elections, to start all over again. It's good because there is real democratic choice. For example the SP is like Labour of yesteryear, firmly in favour of Leave, but firmly against racism, and they're now much bigger in polls than the original Dutch Labour party (PvdA), which is like the Labour where Corbyn is outed and their original electorate is moved away from and demonised, and where they always break their promises in favour of a neo-political agenda. A party like the SP would not be my choice, but it's clear choice with some power which the UK voter lacks.

[seebart]

We have had a large coalition in Germany for the last three years and frankly it's a sign of lack of opposition in general and a really bad situation politically. It's also the reason that Merkel is even still in power, a lack of strong candidates in the other parties. It will be very interesting to see what happens in elections next year here in Germany.

[vivalarevolución]

Something closer to actual democracy can get messy quick. Although it seems like a better situation than having two parties that are two heads of the same monster and creates a population that feels so disenfranschised that the majority actually is the Apathy Party.

[fohat]

It's shite because we always have coalitions where the parties have to betray their consequential meaningless promises

It is bizarre, is it not?

The rigid 2-party system in the US, where properly progressive parties such as Greens and Libertarians are the worst of all because, while they have no chance themselves whatsoever, they spoil the opportunities of the major party closer to them, and the splintered multi-party system where the most noxious and repulsive enemies often choose to climb into bed together with randomly unpredictable and tawdry results!

Sometimes I really wonder whether strict black and white might make governance easier than shades of gray does.

[Chyros]

It's shite because we always have coalitions

I've found I appreciate coalitions a lot more now that I've lived in the UK for a few years xD .

[BimboBB]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/eu-commissio ... tml?ref=gs


Thats what these EU fuckers have learned from Brexit. Now they are even scared about the national parliaments and want to push through their constitution breaching agreements (CETA) alone without asking anyone. Its so dumb.

[elecplus]

I get confused about economics. I will use USD as my example, but think in GBP. If as an example the GBP is worth 15% less, then it costs you 15% more to buy out of the country? And what about within the country? If a shop keeper bought soup for 85 cents and sold for $1, the 15% was his markup. But now that 15% is gone, so he charges $1.15? But you have not received any salary increase. I don't know about there, but in the US, most workers do not have 15% of their paychecks left at the end of the week or month. So now either you buy less, or the shop keeper loses his margins, or you go deeper in debt? If the shop keeper does not raise his prices, then he can't stay in business, but you can't afford to pay 15% more for everything you buy. So how does this even out?

[Chyros]

Prices in the country stay (mostly) the same, but your money buys 15% less abroad.

A less valuable currency isn't necessarily all bad though. It's cheaper for people abroad to buy your stuff, so it stimulates your export. The US and China have been devaluating their currencies on purpose for precisely that purpose.

If your country is mostly reliant on import though, you're kinda screwed :p .

[elecplus]

Can the UK be self sufficient? Can you raise enough crops and livestock to feed yourselves? What about oil, machinery, cars, etc.?

[Wodan]

The fact that a currency dropped by 15% only makes those things more expensive that you purchase in the currency you lost 15% against. A currency doesn't really loose 15% all by ifselt but only compared to another currency. In the case of the GBP, it's 15% loss versus the USD. The loss versus the EUR is smaller because the EUR has also lost versus the dollar.

Looking at countries like Venezuela with a pretty insane inflation, you can see the most obvious effects. Anything that is imported will suddenly be a lot more expensive. All the local products on the other hand do not automatically get more expensive though. So in a first reaction, that GBP drop doesn't change much right away. You might notice prices for imported stuff rise. Best indicator here is always Apple! If they raise prices for a product in a country without a launch, it's mostly due to currency issues. What's currently happening to the GBP is well within their margin though I'm sure.

But one other effect of having a currency that lost value is that the stuff inside your country that wasn't affected by the currency change suddenly becomes a lot more affordable in that other currency that just gained 15% on you. They might say "Oh wow British wine may taste like goat piss but it is now so cheap, I will put some awards on it and sell it in my supermarket" so this will also make local goods more expensive over time. This second effect might even help your economy grow because for a while all your products are suddenly cheap.Until inflation has caught up on the new exchange rate ...

Usually this balance of imports, local buying power, exports and international competition keeps a currency well in balance. I'm sure the GBP will pretty much recover and we will see where it goes in the long term. Don't overestimate the shock reaction of the stock markets and exchange markets ...

[andrewjoy]

Can the UK be self sufficient? Can you raise enough crops and livestock to feed yourselves? What about oil, machinery, cars, etc.?

No chance , the UKs own recourses can only support about 10% of our population.

[Wodan]

Can the UK be self sufficient? Can you raise enough crops and livestock to feed yourselves? What about oil, machinery, cars, etc.?

The EU unanimously decided that the UK is no longer allowed to produce any cars of it's own and had to hand over any production capacity to former Axis countries.

[7bit]

I knew it! Starving people will swim through the Channel in masses and flood Europe!


@Wodan: This is not 100% true!

There are still Lotus and Morgan and maybe they can revive Lister, Bristol and TVR!

[andrewjoy]

Can the UK be self sufficient? Can you raise enough crops and livestock to feed yourselves? What about oil, machinery, cars, etc.?

The EU unanimously decided that the UK is no longer allowed to produce any cars of it's own and had to hand over any production capacity to former Axis countries.

The pesky axis and there fake emissions testing !

[webwit]

Buy from keyboardco now. Until they have to get new stock.

[vivalarevolución]

Markets here have been on the recovery the past couple days here. Seems the investor class freak out was a little premature....

[seebart]

Well the entire situation is still unclear, seems London is undergoing political turmoil these days.

[andrewjoy]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-brita ... ce=twitter

HAHAHAAHAHAH! The epic backtracking is hilarious !

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36672591

LOL , you wanted this you fucking coward, run for PM and hit the big article 50 button or do you not have the cojones ? All bark and no bite , pussy.

[seebart]

Yeah Boris chumped out, guess his internal plan went shit. What a looser. I still loved how Farage behaved in Brussels a couple of days ago.

[andrewjoy]

Yeah Boris chumped out, guess his internal plan went shit. What a looser. I still loved how Farage behaved in Brussels a couple of days ago.

If boris really really believed in the whole brexit idea he would man up and do it himself. But as i said looking at his victory speech he shit himself.

[seebart]

Seems this entire situation has become quite unpredictable. Don't play with fire if you can't handle it. London is politically more messed post Brexit than anyone else.

[chuckdee]

Seems this entire situation has become quite unpredictable. Don't play with fire if you can't handle it. London is politically more messed post Brexit than anyone else.

So, that's what my question has been the whole time in regards to Brexit... was it more of a political move than anything else, taking advantage of those that were overly concerned about immigration to make a power play on Cameron.

That's what it seems like with the backtracking, and the fact that the timing of invoking Article 50 seems to be rather more malleable and fluid now, than it was in rhetoric before.

Am I seeing this correctly?

[andrewjoy]

So, that's what my question has been the whole time in regards to Brexit... was it more of a political move than anything else, taking advantage of those that were overly concerned about immigration to make a power play on Cameron.

That's what it seems like with the backtracking, and the fact that the timing of invoking Article 50 seems to be rather more malleable and fluid now, than it was in rhetoric before.

Am I seeing this correctly?

Yes thats exactly what it was about.

[webwit]

No the east doesn't give a fuck about Johnson.

[fohat]

was it more of a political move than anything else, taking advantage of those that were overly concerned about immigration to make a power play on Cameron.

Yes thats exactly what it was about.

It is not so clear over here in the US, but in real life, was there actually any substantial number of people (besides those who were foaming at the mouth all along) who seriously considered Leave to have a chance of passing?

I understand the Remain camp being flabbergasted, but I have to imagine that the Leave group was almost as surprised at its own success.