F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
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- Location: United States
- Main keyboard: Brand New Model F Keyboards
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Today we passed $110,000 in orders!
tentator yes the caps lock would also be unstepped, like the short right shift. You have until November most likely to get in on the final round but I suggest ordering as soon as possible to get into the early bird round.
downtownHippie you still have the function row but it is just the second layer of the top row of keys on the F62 and F77. I can also configure regular function keys in the 15-key right bank of your F77 if you'd like.
tentator yes the caps lock would also be unstepped, like the short right shift. You have until November most likely to get in on the final round but I suggest ordering as soon as possible to get into the early bird round.
downtownHippie you still have the function row but it is just the second layer of the top row of keys on the F62 and F77. I can also configure regular function keys in the 15-key right bank of your F77 if you'd like.
- alh84001
- v.001
- Location: EU-HR-ZG
- Main keyboard: unsaver
- Main mouse: logitech m305 / apple trackpad
- Favorite switch: BS
- DT Pro Member: -
I think my OCD just rescindedEllipse wrote: ↑alh I'll order it if you want to pay for that key to be added to the mold (we're talking low 4 digits here).
But on a serious note, did every different keycap type end up costing the same? With all ANSI/ISO/custom variants that is, what, almost 10 different keycap types?
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- Location: United States
- Main keyboard: Brand New Model F Keyboards
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The keycap cost is related to the weight of the finished key (the amount of PBT plastic used) so each one is different. There are no per-key mold breakdown cost figures available.
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- Location: United States
- Main keyboard: Brand New Model F Keyboards
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I just received some thorough advice on aluminum finishing options (just for the ultra compact cases). It seems like the two best options are bead blast + bright dip or bead blast + hard anodized. The former option produces richer colors but may be less durable, while the latter is one of the most durable finishes out there. What do you prefer?
Here is a link showing different finishing options: http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=580
And are are some photos that the author has generously allowed me to re-post on his bead blast + bright dip finish for his custom audio console box - it turned out very well in my opinion:
Here is a link showing different finishing options: http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=580
And are are some photos that the author has generously allowed me to re-post on his bead blast + bright dip finish for his custom audio console box - it turned out very well in my opinion:
- lot_lizard
- Location: Minnesota
- Main keyboard: Indy SSK Model MF
- Main mouse: Logitech Anywhere MX
- Favorite switch: Beamspring
- DT Pro Member: -
Personal opinion is that the answer varies based on color. If "raw" aluminum appearance (my choice), I would vote for blasting with hard anodized coating since the differences in appearances are minor and would prefer the more durable finish (several times more). If you went with something like a red, gold, blue, etc... Bright dip is sexier. Personal preference is durability (but again, I would prefer raw aluminum as the color for mine regardless)
- wcass
- Location: Columbus, OH, USA
- Main keyboard: ibm model m
- Main mouse: kensington expert mouse
- Favorite switch: buckeling spring
- DT Pro Member: 0185
i too would go for durability. I would think that "clear" and black would be the popular choices, but bronze/brown goes very well with pebble/pearl colored caps.
- LewisR
- Location: Southeast United States
- Main keyboard: KUL ES-87 MX Clears
- Main mouse: Logitech G-303
- Favorite switch: MX Clear\Model F\Alps Linear
- DT Pro Member: -
I'm having trouble finding a comprehensive direct comparison, but it seems that hard anodizing would be closest to an industrial/military grade finish that would be representative of a keyboard that's known for it's longevity.
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- Location: Carlsbad, CA
- Main keyboard: Silenced Realforce 87U 55g Topre w/ PBT Spacebar
- Main mouse: Zowie ZA11
- Favorite switch: Topre, Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: -
Hey guys!
A few clarifications on finish as well that I forgot to mention to Ellipse:
Durability is first and foremost a byproduct of how long the aluminum stays in the anodize tank. Second to this is minimizing angles on the piece, as the anodize is thinner around edges. Third is the material itself. You can make really tough Type II coatings, but I agree that Type III has the best abrasion/scratch resistance.
Cases like those seen from Tex or P0k3r are a simple Type II anodize, similar to the one seen on my amplifier above, usually with a pretreatment to bring back luster lost from the bead blast. Macbooks and iPhones also use a Type II in this fashion. Granted, I'm not discounting Type III, just making note that we use Type II anodize in our products daily with no ill effects. It's also important to note that a bead blast anodize without a bright dip pretreatment will give the keyboard chassis an AR lower receiver-style look, meaning more of a frosty gray than a true sheen, and will also show fingerprints more than other finishes. Bright dip pre-treatment brings back this luster. Think spray painting your car flat black (gray, dusty/frosty) versus a vinyl wrap or true semigloss satin.
I should also add that "clear" Type III hardcoat anodize will color the metal depending on the type of metal used. Source: http://www.midstal.com/sft334/aluminum_ ... _guide.pdf
Tank time also affects the coloration, as seen below:
These are all "clear" Type III hardcoat anodize with increasing coat thicknesses, from left to right.
Source
Update: You can indeed pretreat with phosphoric acid / bright dip / chemical polish prior to a Type III hard coat! I'd imagine it to be the be-all-end-all to durability without a sacrifice to aesthetics.
This said, I believe what we're looking for is something along these lines:
1. A case with no 90* angles (see first picture-- 0.015 radius ensures full coverage) around potential wear and abuse points to prevent chipping of the finish
2. An aluminum that satisfies those looking for a "clear" anodize, based on that table above
3. Glass bead blast medium, starting with a low psi and working upward until all surface abnormalities and marks are removed.
4. "Bright dip" phosphoric / chemical polish / pre-treatment of the aluminum to bring luster to the anodize
5. Type III hardcoat: clear (natural), black, gray, gray-green, etc.
Metal finishing is extremely tribal knowledge; unfortunately I don't have any pictures of these possible finishes offhand outside of my amplifier posted above. Everything I've learned has been through rigorous research in my own DIY projects and visiting several metal finishing shops in my area. It would definitely be beneficial to get in contact with a shop that has samples of each of these styles to see what works best for everyone!
A few clarifications on finish as well that I forgot to mention to Ellipse:
Durability is first and foremost a byproduct of how long the aluminum stays in the anodize tank. Second to this is minimizing angles on the piece, as the anodize is thinner around edges. Third is the material itself. You can make really tough Type II coatings, but I agree that Type III has the best abrasion/scratch resistance.
Cases like those seen from Tex or P0k3r are a simple Type II anodize, similar to the one seen on my amplifier above, usually with a pretreatment to bring back luster lost from the bead blast. Macbooks and iPhones also use a Type II in this fashion. Granted, I'm not discounting Type III, just making note that we use Type II anodize in our products daily with no ill effects. It's also important to note that a bead blast anodize without a bright dip pretreatment will give the keyboard chassis an AR lower receiver-style look, meaning more of a frosty gray than a true sheen, and will also show fingerprints more than other finishes. Bright dip pre-treatment brings back this luster. Think spray painting your car flat black (gray, dusty/frosty) versus a vinyl wrap or true semigloss satin.
I should also add that "clear" Type III hardcoat anodize will color the metal depending on the type of metal used. Source: http://www.midstal.com/sft334/aluminum_ ... _guide.pdf
Tank time also affects the coloration, as seen below:
These are all "clear" Type III hardcoat anodize with increasing coat thicknesses, from left to right.
Source
Update: You can indeed pretreat with phosphoric acid / bright dip / chemical polish prior to a Type III hard coat! I'd imagine it to be the be-all-end-all to durability without a sacrifice to aesthetics.
This said, I believe what we're looking for is something along these lines:
1. A case with no 90* angles (see first picture-- 0.015 radius ensures full coverage) around potential wear and abuse points to prevent chipping of the finish
2. An aluminum that satisfies those looking for a "clear" anodize, based on that table above
3. Glass bead blast medium, starting with a low psi and working upward until all surface abnormalities and marks are removed.
4. "Bright dip" phosphoric / chemical polish / pre-treatment of the aluminum to bring luster to the anodize
5. Type III hardcoat: clear (natural), black, gray, gray-green, etc.
Metal finishing is extremely tribal knowledge; unfortunately I don't have any pictures of these possible finishes offhand outside of my amplifier posted above. Everything I've learned has been through rigorous research in my own DIY projects and visiting several metal finishing shops in my area. It would definitely be beneficial to get in contact with a shop that has samples of each of these styles to see what works best for everyone!
Last edited by Xovaan on 05 Jul 2016, 08:07, edited 2 times in total.
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- Location: United States
- Main keyboard: Brand New Model F Keyboards
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ok so it looks like hard anodizing / Type III is what everyone is looking for, and possibly Bright dipping in the process for the custom color ultra compact cases. And thanks Xovaan!
- LewisR
- Location: Southeast United States
- Main keyboard: KUL ES-87 MX Clears
- Main mouse: Logitech G-303
- Favorite switch: MX Clear\Model F\Alps Linear
- DT Pro Member: -
I'm still trying to decide what layout I want, but I'm becoming more and more sure that I want the CapsLock key to be an FN key. I have two questions:
1. Is it possible to get FN dyed on the CapsLock key? (If not I would just get a blank 1.75U key.)
2. Is it possible to have FN+Shift = Capslock?
1. Is it possible to get FN dyed on the CapsLock key? (If not I would just get a blank 1.75U key.)
2. Is it possible to have FN+Shift = Capslock?
- wcass
- Location: Columbus, OH, USA
- Main keyboard: ibm model m
- Main mouse: kensington expert mouse
- Favorite switch: buckeling spring
- DT Pro Member: 0185
Fn + Shift is how i do caps lock on my Kishsaver, so yes - that will work. I'm not sure if Ellipses is offering every legend on every key, but 1.75 is commonly used for Caps Lock, Ctrl, Shift, and Fn.
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- Location: United States
- Main keyboard: Brand New Model F Keyboards
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The very first die cast F62 and F77 cases have been cast! This week they will be powdercoated and mailed to me for approval.
LewisR yes on 1 but it may have to be a standard stepped 1.75U caps lock key made by Unicomp (not sure if I will be doing custom printed keys for my new keys).
2. Yes that should be possible using xwhatsit's macro functionality.
LewisR yes on 1 but it may have to be a standard stepped 1.75U caps lock key made by Unicomp (not sure if I will be doing custom printed keys for my new keys).
2. Yes that should be possible using xwhatsit's macro functionality.
- alh84001
- v.001
- Location: EU-HR-ZG
- Main keyboard: unsaver
- Main mouse: logitech m305 / apple trackpad
- Favorite switch: BS
- DT Pro Member: -
@Ellipse a question concerning keycaps. Well, a couple. Do you think these would match with IBM keycaps, or is there no way to make that guarantee. Also, front printed keycaps, they still go through Unicomp, and only numbers/function keys are available?
I am asking because I have a 1386304 board with some of it's most unique keycaps missing (some of which include front printed legends), and this would be most practical way to account for them.
I am asking because I have a 1386304 board with some of it's most unique keycaps missing (some of which include front printed legends), and this would be most practical way to account for them.
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- Location: United States
- Main keyboard: Brand New Model F Keyboards
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alh they will likely not match as mine are one-piece. I am trying to make all the keys including the front-printed caps. I will not be doing custom key printing though.
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- Location: United States
- Main keyboard: Brand New Model F Keyboards
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For now there is no change in the international shipping costs if you order one keyboard. Please PM me for a custom shipping quote if you are ordering more than one ultra compact keyboard, and I can offer a shipping discount for international addresses. I don't know how much less the ultra compact keyboards' shipping weight will be.
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- Location: United States
- Main keyboard: Brand New Model F Keyboards
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Looks like the consensus is for hard anodized for the ultra compact cases, and bright dipping only if it can be bright dipped and then hard anodized. I agree that we should go for the most durable finish and for a finish that is not glossy.
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- Location: United States
- Main keyboard: Brand New Model F Keyboards
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The very first die cast Model F keyboard cases to come out of the Brand New Model F metal molds, with no secondary finishing operations or powdercoating done yet:
The factory did a good job with these. My first few months working on this project last year, I didn't know that the die cast metal parts came out "rough" out of a mold, lines and marks and all, and then had to be fixed up.
The factory did a good job with these. My first few months working on this project last year, I didn't know that the die cast metal parts came out "rough" out of a mold, lines and marks and all, and then had to be fixed up.
- czarek
- Location: Działdowo, Poland
- Main keyboard: HHKB Pro 2
- Main mouse: Magic Trackpad 2
- Favorite switch: I have no favourite - I love them all!
- DT Pro Member: -
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Is that zinc or aluminium? Looks really cool!
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- Location: United States
- Main keyboard: Brand New Model F Keyboards
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czarek that is zinc. The prototypes as well as the ultra compact cases are aluminum. The original style cases will all be the super-solid zinc material (pictured) like the originals.
LewisR go for it! Everyone still has time to get in the early bird round.
strah the factory says they are using Zinc #3 (the most common high end zinc alloy for die casting). Some more info: https://www.dynacast.com/zamak-3
LewisR go for it! Everyone still has time to get in the early bird round.
strah the factory says they are using Zinc #3 (the most common high end zinc alloy for die casting). Some more info: https://www.dynacast.com/zamak-3
- Elrick
- Location: Swan View, AUSTRALIA
- Main keyboard: Alps - As much as Possible.
- Main mouse: MX518
- Favorite switch: Navy Switch, ALPs, Model-M
- DT Pro Member: -
SUPER excited about this, making it truly the only REAL Model-F Keyboard revival.Ellipse wrote: ↑czarek that is zinc. The original style cases will all be the super-solid zinc material (pictured) like the originals.
Thanks Ellipse.
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- Location: United States
- Main keyboard: Brand New Model F Keyboards
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The very first die cast metal cases arrived today and they are great! These sample cases are even heavier than the originals! The F77 is about 1.2 pounds heavier than my original F77 and the F62 is about 0.9 lbs heavier than kishy's original F62 Kishsaver.
Kishy's original F62 weighing 3,025 grams: http://kishy.ca/?attachment_id=956
Kishy's original F62 weighing 3,025 grams: http://kishy.ca/?attachment_id=956
- lot_lizard
- Location: Minnesota
- Main keyboard: Indy SSK Model MF
- Main mouse: Logitech Anywhere MX
- Favorite switch: Beamspring
- DT Pro Member: -
They really do look beautiful. Well done. For the weight differences, it makes you wonder the grade of Zamak they originally used. Have you tried weighing just the shells? It's possible the assembly plates might be as heavier gauge as well? Regardless... Excellent work
- fohat
- Elder Messenger
- Location: Knoxville, Tennessee, USA
- Main keyboard: Model F 122-key terminal
- Main mouse: Microsoft Optical Mouse
- Favorite switch: Model F Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: 0158
I don't have a 77 but I do have a 107 and the case is surprisingly light. When I had it shot blasted at the shop, the guys were rather insulting at its low quality and inconsistency. They said that was why there was so much streaking and spotting.lot_lizard wrote: ↑They really do look beautiful. Well done. For the weight differences, it makes you wonder the grade of Zamak they originally used. Have you tried weighing just the shells? It's possible the assembly plates might be as heavier gauge as well? Regardless... Excellent work
I thought that the back looked great, natural, but the spots/blotches on the sidebars of the front ruined the "natural" look.
My goal was to go natural but that just wasn't going to happen.
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