F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[Ellipse]

Today we passed $110,000 in orders!

tentator yes the caps lock would also be unstepped, like the short right shift. You have until November most likely to get in on the final round but I suggest ordering as soon as possible to get into the early bird round.

downtownHippie you still have the function row but it is just the second layer of the top row of keys on the F62 and F77. I can also configure regular function keys in the 15-key right bank of your F77 if you'd like.

[alh84001]

alh I'll order it if you want to pay for that key to be added to the mold (we're talking low 4 digits here).

I think my OCD just rescinded
But on a serious note, did every different keycap type end up costing the same? With all ANSI/ISO/custom variants that is, what, almost 10 different keycap types?

[Ellipse]

The keycap cost is related to the weight of the finished key (the amount of PBT plastic used) so each one is different. There are no per-key mold breakdown cost figures available.

[Ellipse]

I just received some thorough advice on aluminum finishing options (just for the ultra compact cases). It seems like the two best options are bead blast + bright dip or bead blast + hard anodized. The former option produces richer colors but may be less durable, while the latter is one of the most durable finishes out there. What do you prefer?

Here is a link showing different finishing options: http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=580

And are are some photos that the author has generously allowed me to re-post on his bead blast + bright dip finish for his custom audio console box - it turned out very well in my opinion:

bright dipping1.jpg (133.02 KiB) Viewed 7712 times

bright dipping2.jpg (270.09 KiB) Viewed 7712 times

bright dipping3.jpg (382.57 KiB) Viewed 7712 times

[lot_lizard]

Personal opinion is that the answer varies based on color. If "raw" aluminum appearance (my choice), I would vote for blasting with hard anodized coating since the differences in appearances are minor and would prefer the more durable finish (several times more). If you went with something like a red, gold, blue, etc... Bright dip is sexier. Personal preference is durability (but again, I would prefer raw aluminum as the color for mine regardless)

[wcass]

i too would go for durability. I would think that "clear" and black would be the popular choices, but bronze/brown goes very well with pebble/pearl colored caps.

[LewisR]

I'm having trouble finding a comprehensive direct comparison, but it seems that hard anodizing would be closest to an industrial/military grade finish that would be representative of a keyboard that's known for it's longevity.

[alh84001]

I'd go for durability as well. And as I stated before, if it's not bright/shiny but a bit muted or matte, that would be better as well.

[Phenix]

durability is better!

[Xovaan]

Hey guys!

A few clarifications on finish as well that I forgot to mention to Ellipse:

Durability is first and foremost a byproduct of how long the aluminum stays in the anodize tank. Second to this is minimizing angles on the piece, as the anodize is thinner around edges. Third is the material itself. You can make really tough Type II coatings, but I agree that Type III has the best abrasion/scratch resistance.



Cases like those seen from Tex or P0k3r are a simple Type II anodize, similar to the one seen on my amplifier above, usually with a pretreatment to bring back luster lost from the bead blast. Macbooks and iPhones also use a Type II in this fashion. Granted, I'm not discounting Type III, just making note that we use Type II anodize in our products daily with no ill effects. It's also important to note that a bead blast anodize without a bright dip pretreatment will give the keyboard chassis an AR lower receiver-style look, meaning more of a frosty gray than a true sheen, and will also show fingerprints more than other finishes. Bright dip pre-treatment brings back this luster. Think spray painting your car flat black (gray, dusty/frosty) versus a vinyl wrap or true semigloss satin.

I should also add that "clear" Type III hardcoat anodize will color the metal depending on the type of metal used. Source: http://www.midstal.com/sft334/aluminum_ ... _guide.pdf



Tank time also affects the coloration, as seen below:



These are all "clear" Type III hardcoat anodize with increasing coat thicknesses, from left to right.

Source


Update: You can indeed pretreat with phosphoric acid / bright dip / chemical polish prior to a Type III hard coat! I'd imagine it to be the be-all-end-all to durability without a sacrifice to aesthetics.

This said, I believe what we're looking for is something along these lines:

1. A case with no 90* angles (see first picture-- 0.015 radius ensures full coverage) around potential wear and abuse points to prevent chipping of the finish
2. An aluminum that satisfies those looking for a "clear" anodize, based on that table above
3. Glass bead blast medium, starting with a low psi and working upward until all surface abnormalities and marks are removed.
4. "Bright dip" phosphoric / chemical polish / pre-treatment of the aluminum to bring luster to the anodize
5. Type III hardcoat: clear (natural), black, gray, gray-green, etc.

Metal finishing is extremely tribal knowledge; unfortunately I don't have any pictures of these possible finishes offhand outside of my amplifier posted above. Everything I've learned has been through rigorous research in my own DIY projects and visiting several metal finishing shops in my area. It would definitely be beneficial to get in contact with a shop that has samples of each of these styles to see what works best for everyone!

[Ellipse]

ok so it looks like hard anodizing / Type III is what everyone is looking for, and possibly Bright dipping in the process for the custom color ultra compact cases. And thanks Xovaan!

[LewisR]

I'm still trying to decide what layout I want, but I'm becoming more and more sure that I want the CapsLock key to be an FN key. I have two questions:

1. Is it possible to get FN dyed on the CapsLock key? (If not I would just get a blank 1.75U key.)

2. Is it possible to have FN+Shift = Capslock?

[wcass]

Fn + Shift is how i do caps lock on my Kishsaver, so yes - that will work. I'm not sure if Ellipses is offering every legend on every key, but 1.75 is commonly used for Caps Lock, Ctrl, Shift, and Fn.

[Ellipse]

The very first die cast F62 and F77 cases have been cast! This week they will be powdercoated and mailed to me for approval.

LewisR yes on 1 but it may have to be a standard stepped 1.75U caps lock key made by Unicomp (not sure if I will be doing custom printed keys for my new keys).

2. Yes that should be possible using xwhatsit's macro functionality.

[Khers]

That's awesome news, Ellipse! I'm eagerly awaiting pics!

[alh84001]

@Ellipse a question concerning keycaps. Well, a couple. Do you think these would match with IBM keycaps, or is there no way to make that guarantee. Also, front printed keycaps, they still go through Unicomp, and only numbers/function keys are available?

I am asking because I have a 1386304 board with some of it's most unique keycaps missing (some of which include front printed legends), and this would be most practical way to account for them.

[Ellipse]

alh they will likely not match as mine are one-piece. I am trying to make all the keys including the front-printed caps. I will not be doing custom key printing though.

[mana]

Any update on updated shipping costs for the compact F62?

[Ellipse]

For now there is no change in the international shipping costs if you order one keyboard. Please PM me for a custom shipping quote if you are ordering more than one ultra compact keyboard, and I can offer a shipping discount for international addresses. I don't know how much less the ultra compact keyboards' shipping weight will be.

[Ellipse]

Looks like the consensus is for hard anodized for the ultra compact cases, and bright dipping only if it can be bright dipped and then hard anodized. I agree that we should go for the most durable finish and for a finish that is not glossy.

[Ellipse]

The very first die cast Model F keyboard cases to come out of the Brand New Model F metal molds, with no secondary finishing operations or powdercoating done yet:

The factory did a good job with these. My first few months working on this project last year, I didn't know that the die cast metal parts came out "rough" out of a mold, lines and marks and all, and then had to be fixed up.

F62 - Copy.jpg (200.92 KiB) Viewed 7023 times

F62(1) - Copy.jpg (280.03 KiB) Viewed 7023 times

F62(2) - Copy.jpg (130.54 KiB) Viewed 7023 times

F77 - Copy.jpg (306.65 KiB) Viewed 7023 times

F77(1) - Copy.jpg (399.77 KiB) Viewed 7023 times

F77(2) - Copy.jpg (220.14 KiB) Viewed 7023 times

[tentator]

Wow! Like it even raw!!

[czarek]

Is that zinc or aluminium? Looks really cool!

[LewisR]

Okay. My mouse pointer is hovering over the buy button for the F77. ahhhhh....

[strah]

Wow the die-cast cases look really good, this is a perfect homage to the the original Kishsaver. Do they solely consist of zinc or is it an alloy with other metals?

[Ellipse]

czarek that is zinc. The prototypes as well as the ultra compact cases are aluminum. The original style cases will all be the super-solid zinc material (pictured) like the originals.

LewisR go for it! Everyone still has time to get in the early bird round.

strah the factory says they are using Zinc #3 (the most common high end zinc alloy for die casting). Some more info: https://www.dynacast.com/zamak-3

[Elrick]

czarek that is zinc. The original style cases will all be the super-solid zinc material (pictured) like the originals.

SUPER excited about this, making it truly the only REAL Model-F Keyboard revival.

Thanks Ellipse.

[Ellipse]

The very first die cast metal cases arrived today and they are great! These sample cases are even heavier than the originals! The F77 is about 1.2 pounds heavier than my original F77 and the F62 is about 0.9 lbs heavier than kishy's original F62 Kishsaver.

Kishy's original F62 weighing 3,025 grams: http://kishy.ca/?attachment_id=956

20160714_201105 - Copy - Copy.jpg (1.08 MiB) Viewed 6702 times

20160714_195852 - Copy - Copy.jpg (1.22 MiB) Viewed 6702 times

20160714_201233 - Copy - Copy.jpg (1.01 MiB) Viewed 6702 times

[lot_lizard]

They really do look beautiful. Well done. For the weight differences, it makes you wonder the grade of Zamak they originally used. Have you tried weighing just the shells? It's possible the assembly plates might be as heavier gauge as well? Regardless... Excellent work

[fohat]

They really do look beautiful. Well done. For the weight differences, it makes you wonder the grade of Zamak they originally used. Have you tried weighing just the shells? It's possible the assembly plates might be as heavier gauge as well? Regardless... Excellent work

I don't have a 77 but I do have a 107 and the case is surprisingly light. When I had it shot blasted at the shop, the guys were rather insulting at its low quality and inconsistency. They said that was why there was so much streaking and spotting.

I thought that the back looked great, natural, but the spots/blotches on the sidebars of the front ruined the "natural" look.

My goal was to go natural but that just wasn't going to happen.