Alps Appreciation

[Hypersphere]

@emdude: No, I have not yet tried replacing the contact leaf. Thanks for the PM explaining more about the contact leaf and how to replace it.

Do you happen to know which Alps switches (other than white, of course) could be used as donors of contact leaves that would work in a SKCM white Alps switch?

I will probably leave well enough alone, but if the switch malfunctions again, I will first try replacing the contact leaf. If that does not work, I will try replacing the entire switch. But before doing anything that major, I need to get back to work at my "day job"!

[mike52787]

@emdude: No, I have not yet tried replacing the contact leaf. Thanks for the PM explaining more about the contact leaf and how to replace it.

Do you happen to know which Alps switches (other than white, of course) could be used as donors of contact leaves that would work in a SKCM white Alps switch?

I will probably leave well enough alone, but if the switch malfunctions again, I will first try replacing the contact leaf. If that does not work, I will try replacing the entire switch. But before doing anything that major, I need to get back to work at my "day job"!

any skcl/skcm switch could be used as a donor, it doesnt matter. tall black/grey switchplates are much harder to come by than short whites. They both fit. if you want I can send you a few switchplates. just pm me your address and Ill throw them in an envelope.

[Hypersphere]

@mike52787: Thanks for the offer; I will send you a PM.

Just to clarify, when you say "switchplate", are you referring to the entire assembly at the rear of the switch and not just the contact leaf? My understanding (with help from emdude) is that the contact leaf is the only component of the switchplate that can be removed/replaced without desoldering the switch. I suppose if I needed to replace the entire switchplate, I might as well replace the entire switch. Is this correct?

[keycap]

Very nice seebart, I would say that the M0116 is one of my favorite keyboards at this point; the acoustics of the case makes the switches sound fantastic.

That and the compact layout is very nice (aside from the bottom row). I would very much like to pick up another one, with Orange Alps, in the future.

The sound is very good, but I'm not so sure why the switches ping so much. I actually like the ping noise, but the plate seems awfully loose, as I've noticed that some switches can easily pop out of the plate on the side opposite from where the switchplate is located. That and the big-ass enter key isn't stabilized too well.

It's still a very good keyboard overall

[Chyros]

The contact leaf has the embossed dot, the tactile leaf does not. Thanks for asking that question, I never quite understood how the contact leaf + switchplate worked, even after reading the wiki article on the switch series, but I see now that the embossed dot presses the front-facing foil against the rear terminal. That must be why the tactile leaf cannot be used to actuate the switch.

Yes, although the brown Alps switch I have does actually have the dot on the tactile leaf as well, which I haven't seen anywhere else. Hence why I asked.

[emdude]

Very nice seebart, I would say that the M0116 is one of my favorite keyboards at this point; the acoustics of the case makes the switches sound fantastic.

That and the compact layout is very nice (aside from the bottom row). I would very much like to pick up another one, with Orange Alps, in the future.

The sound is very good, but I'm not so sure why the switches ping so much. I actually like the ping noise, but the plate seems awfully loose, as I've noticed that some switches can easily pop out of the plate on the side opposite from where the switchplate is located. That and the big-ass enter key isn't stabilized too well.

It's still a very good keyboard overall

If I recall correctly, your M0116 has SKCM Orange switches? I've noticed that my loose Oranges are rather pingy as well.

Many Alps BAEs are stabilized poorly. Focus and Monterey? did it best, their BAEs used a pair of wire stabilizers. It makes reattaching the BAE somewhat tricky, but the action is pretty smooth no matter where you press the key.

[Chyros]

Very nice seebart, I would say that the M0116 is one of my favorite keyboards at this point; the acoustics of the case makes the switches sound fantastic.

That and the compact layout is very nice (aside from the bottom row). I would very much like to pick up another one, with Orange Alps, in the future.

The sound is very good, but I'm not so sure why the switches ping so much. I actually like the ping noise, but the plate seems awfully loose, as I've noticed that some switches can easily pop out of the plate on the side opposite from where the switchplate is located. That and the big-ass enter key isn't stabilized too well.

It's still a very good keyboard overall

If I recall correctly, your M0116 has SKCM Orange switches? I've noticed that my loose Oranges are rather pingy as well.

Many Alps BAEs are stabilized poorly. Focus and Monterey? did it best, their BAEs used a pair of wire stabilizers. It makes reattaching the BAE somewhat tricky, but the action is pretty smooth no matter where you press the key.

Chicony and NTC did it like that as well, often with Cherry-mount stabiliser retainers. Like you said an immense pain in the arse to reattach, but it works .

[seebart]

Very nice seebart, I would say that the M0116 is one of my favorite keyboards at this point; the acoustics of the case makes the switches sound fantastic.

That and the compact layout is very nice (aside from the bottom row). I would very much like to pick up another one, with Orange Alps, in the future.

The sound is very good, but I'm not so sure why the switches ping so much. I actually like the ping noise, but the plate seems awfully loose, as I've noticed that some switches can easily pop out of the plate on the side opposite from where the switchplate is located. That and the big-ass enter key isn't stabilized too well.

It's still a very good keyboard overall

Hmm my M0116 is not one bit pingy, in fact it makes very little sound at all. I'm sure that's what Apple intended. Stabilization and the ISO layout are the only negative points, the build quality is really good, the keycaps are wonderful. I still prefer Salmon SKCM to Orange but of course that's just taste.

[keycap]

Chicony and NTC did it like that as well, often with Cherry-mount stabiliser retainers. Like you said an immense pain in the arse to reattach, but it works .

I can vouch for Chicony on this one, even my very cheaply-made Chicony KB-2961 has a very stable big-ass enter. It uses the dual stabilizer setup and it's quite effective.

The BAE on the M0116 is fine in terms of stability if you're used to an ISO enter key, but if you hit the enter key at the bottom left corner, it feels so unresponsive.. almost as if the stabilizers were drenched in maple syrup. I believe Apple didn't care too much about this problem, as the enter key's switch placement eliminated a few manufacturing differences between the ANSI/ISO versions, thus saving money on their part.

[seebart]

The BAE on the M0116 is fine in terms of stability if you're used to an ISO enter key, but if you hit the enter key at the bottom left corner, it feels so unresponsive.. almost as if the stabilizers were drenched in maple syrup. I believe Apple didn't care too much about this problem, as the enter key's switch placement eliminated a few manufacturing differences between the ANSI/ISO versions, thus saving money on their part.

That's right, that's one of the very few problems the ISO version M0116 has. I don't think lubing would help either.

[Hypersphere]

I wonder what the optimum size and shape of a Return key would be for most folks? From my point of view, the best shape and orientation is a horizontal rectangle, like that of the US ANSI configuration. I also think that most Return keys are unnecessarily large.

I am typing this on a non-ADB NeXT keyboard with non-damped cream Alps. It has a 1.75x horizontal rectangular Return key. This mirrors the 1.75x Ctrl key nicely, and it is extremely stable and well balanced. I can hit the key on any corner and the switch responds smoothly with no binding.

My IBM XT keyboard is configured with a 1.00x Return key. This works reasonably well, but I would prefer something just a bit larger. Anything in the 1.25x - 1.75x range should be fine, and within this range, it would not be necessary to use any sort of stabilizer, although this NeXT keyboard does use a wire stabilizer for the 1.75x Ctrl and Return keys.

BTW, I am using Hasu's converter on the NeXT, and of course I've mapped it in a HHKB-like layout. The board has a 1.00x key to the right of Right Bracket that I am using as my Backspace key, and it works beautifully for me. Oddly enough, I have trouble hitting the Backspace on keyboards with a 1.00x Backspace on the number row.

Overall, I am enjoying the NeXT keyboard, but it has some issues. I like the undamped cream Alps, but the keyboard has a very noticeable ping. I might do a brief review after I get caught up on work.

[seebart]

I might do a brief review after I get caught up on work.

Please do. I still have a NeXT sitting at Mu's, he's obviously got other things to take care of. I don't care much for the vertical ISO return key variations. The horizontal ANSI solution is better. One of the most interesting return key variations I own is on the Zenith ZKB-2, it's like a hybrid of both.

wiki/Zenith_ZKB-2

800px-Zenith_ZKB-2_top_view.JPG (55.97 KiB) Viewed 5055 times

[Hypersphere]

It's interesting to look at keyboard layouts and trace the evolutionary patterns. The ascending limb of that Return key reminds me of a vestigial organ waiting to be surgically removed like an inflamed appendix, whereupon the Backslash could be free to slide into place and expand a bit to crowd the swollen Right Bracket back down to size. However, I would want to keep a 1.00x key to the right of the Right Shift -- a perfect location for a Fn key. Are the mods on the bottom row 1.75x?

[seebart]

Are the mods on the bottom row 1.75x?

Yes I believe they are. The position of dash under return is also quite unusual. That right bracket is just silly. They also split "0" and "." on the numpad 50/50.

[emdude]

I definitely agree about that right bracket key. Zenith should have kept it 1u and went full Big-Ass with their Enter key.

That and the other weird design choices aside, I kind of like that layout because it's more or less the Focus layout.

[seebart]

In terms of build quality the Zenith is on another level, the case is sturdy as hell, the metal plate is heavy duty. It's a tank.

[Chyros]

Yeah, it's pretty much the Focus layout with a slightly less practical enter key and a weirder keyset, which makes it very hard to find a proper replacement set.

The Zenith really is more of a special board though. You can get smooth linear Alps anywhere, and there are other Alps keyboards with this kind of build quality. But the Zeniths just have a kind of zing to it. I'm typing on mine right now as a matter of fact .

[Hypersphere]

I have the Z-150 XT-style Zenith. I like the solid feel, and I've managed to make the most of the layout. It's as though there were an obsequiousness about bowing to IBM to some degree, such as keeping the swollen Right Bracket key.

[fohat]

it's like a hybrid of both.

I could realistically use that keyboard.
None of its small handful of weirdnesses are deal-killers.

[macboarder]

Well, I just got this thing and my Alps appreciation (high enough already) skyrocketed

[scottc]

Niiiice! Where did you bag that from?

[Lynx_Carpathica]

Hi Guys,
I've got myself a bag of ivory damped alps (99 to be ceratin).
I've dumped the content of the bag onto my desk and realized that some of the wings has broken off. Will it affect the switch feel when installed in a board?

[macboarder]

Niiiice! Where did you bag that from?

eBay. It was originally purchased for a school in Yugoslavia, so it's a bit of a historical item

[scottc]

Very very nice indeed. Good catch!

[fohat]

Hi Guys,

some of the wings has broken off. Will it affect the switch feel when installed in a board?

Not really. They hold the switch bodies in place until the solder hardens, then they are moot.

Keep the switches firmly seated and solder them in properly and the solder will hold it from there.

[Lynx_Carpathica]

Thank you!

[alh84001]

Niiiice! Where did you bag that from?

eBay. It was originally purchased for a school in Yugoslavia, so it's a bit of a historical item

Well, that makes it interesting, at least to me. Was the seller from that area?

[macboarder]

Yep, Ljubljana to be exact.


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[Lynx_Carpathica]

I was thinking about the fact that neon green alps are verry expensive, and I had an idea. Wonder what would happen if I insert another switchplate in the switch as a tactile leaf... Let's see if I could make a "brown tactile alps" from 2 alps switches, one of them is working the other is faulty. Hmm... tomorrow...
brown's tactile leaf is basically a fake leaf spring isn't it?

[Chyros]

I was thinking about the fact that neon green alps are verry expensive, and I had an idea. Wonder what would happen if I insert another switchplate in the switch as a tactile leaf... Let's see if I could make a "brown tactile alps" from 2 alps switches, one of them is working the other is faulty. Hmm... tomorrow...
brown's tactile leaf is basically a fake leaf spring isn't it?

Good luck with that xD

First, the fake contact plate leaf in brown Alps is much stiffer than the contact one, so you won't get much tactility out of it. Second, I'm not sure the switchplate will fit in the opposite part of the housing from the top OR bottom, even if you snip the contact legs.

I HAVE tried to do the opposite, switching the switchplate in an orange Alps switch for another tactile leaf. That was pretty funky Oo .