(Model MF) Remodeling the Model M (aka.. the Mara)

[giokkk]

, I would like to know what the AVERAGE shipping rate would be from Germany to the outskirts of the EU for a box that measures 62cm x 24cm x 10cm with a weight of 2.75kg. I can account for these costs for anything domestic (US) already, but am ignorant about inter-country shipping within the EU (tariffs, etc). Appreciate the help

Hello lot,
the following link is for DHL Paket International, I've recieved several items from them (Germany to Italy).
It's secure (with tracking code in order to check the delivery) and fast, usually takes a couple of days to reach all Europe.
On the website you can check the different size and weights.

http://www.dhl.de/en/paket/pakete-verse ... paket.html

[alh84001]

Just in case lot_lizard gets lost in that page
- Germany to EU -> 17EUR -> 19USD
- Germany to non-EU, but in Europe -> 30EUR -> 33USD

This creates funny situations, e.g. shipping to Cyprus is 17 EUR, and shipping to Lichtenstein, which is right there on the border, is 30 EUR.

[giokkk]

Just in case lot_lizard get's lost in that page
- Germany to EU -> 17EUR -> 19USD
- Germany to non-EU, but in Europe -> 30EUR -> 33USD

This creates funny situations, e.g. shipping to Cyprus is 17 EUR, and shipping to Lichtenstein, which is right there on the border, is 30 EUR.

Yes alh,
DHL "hates" everyone who is not in the European Comunity!!

[lot_lizard]

Does a flat shipping of $30-35 overseas seem realistic? $5-10 to sea freight, and then you guys average out at 25 per from the proxy? I'll PM some folks to get input as well

Shipping on this side of the pond will be in the 15 dollar range

[seebart]

Does a flat shipping of $30-35 overseas seem realistic?

Yeah seems about right if you can package that way. This is the quote I get from DHL:

Unbenannt.JPG (90.68 KiB) Viewed 5388 times

[lot_lizard]

Lets call it $40 then... You will see shortly when I dump the prices out there that things were cheaper than our original pessimistic (inflated on purpose) estimates on the parts themselves. I don't want to pick on you guys oversees at all, but I'm not going to be out money in the end. Would rather refund all of you a few dollars in the end if it works out that way

Does that seem fair? 40 seems like a lot to me, but I am not sure what you typically go through. Hopefully this is better. Keep in mind this weighs about 2x of a model M and is coming in our "hearty" packaging

[lot_lizard]

The robe is officially open. Now you know what I know. NOTE: we have not started the order process... this is just to have you help me validate the form to capture the order. The amounts might move by a couple of dollars either direction based on final quotes at time of order, but this should be accurate.

This is a draft of the spreadsheet, and should give everyone an idea of final pricing (hopefully you are pleased). There are no constraints on save (silly macros) to validate an actual order, but I will do that part myself before I invoice anyone. Play with it a bit, and let me know your thoughts. All part prices are determined by ceiling of cost on the dollar. So if something costs $8.42 cents to produce on paper, we are charging $9 to keep things simple. Again... any surplus will find it's way back into the community somehow (I want to avoid taxable income from this).

If you do find something that is not calculating correctly, or seems weird... please let me know. It hurts everyone if you find a loop hole. Ultimately this spreadsheet will be in a different form for order gathering, but the logic and amounts should remain.

Model MF Phase 1 Order.xlsx

(37.29 KiB) Downloaded 337 times

[E TwentyNine]

What were the specific shades decided on for the various colors for the plates?

[lot_lizard]

What were the specific shades decided on for the various colors for the plates?

I'm working with them to get swatches (probably next week before I have something to post). I was picky.


Actually the red will be something quite close to what Ellipse picked for his project (love that shade.. always have). The green is something very close to the green on the DisplayWrite font on an M. And the Blue... that's our Mopar SSK.

For the final spreadsheet, I will have some color samples as images in it I think. Certainly in our Marketplace thread

[E TwentyNine]

Thanks. Now I'm trying to determine what "side spacers" refers to.

(Wait, is that the insert between the plates?)

[lot_lizard]

Exactly... the side/edge guards that help to regulate spacing of the plates and keep dust out. They have been redesigned to be the full length of the plate sides now, but only act as a dust shield for any spot they previously didn't exist. Also, I didn't include the sheet metal plugs that will be part of this in the spreadsheet. There are several little parts that just got to be ridiculous when you listed them all out. "Fasteners" includes spares, etc

Also... I just noticed the fasteners cost is off... should be 4 dollars... not 7. So the kit is 3 less than in the spreadsheet

[Techno Trousers]

If we'd like to order a mix of form factors of the same color, should we submit separate forms? e.g. 2 SSK and 2 101 blue powdercoated top plates.

[Techno Trousers]

Actually, having gone through the spreadsheet, I think it would work a lot better if you enumerated the form factor right in the description. Like:

Bottom Plate

Chromate (Hot Dipped Yellow) - SSK (84 Key)
Chromate (Hot Dipped Yellow) - Full Size (101 Key)
Powdercoated Black - SSK (84 Key)
Powdercoated Black - Full Size (101 Key)
etc.

[Techno Trousers]

One other "note:" The Notes section should be top aligned and have line wrap enabled for readability.

[Rimrul]

You didn't think about ISO needing one switch more than ANSI. That will probably be covered by the winkey switches in most cases, but should at least get a remark in the sheet or something.

[lot_lizard]

You didn't think about ISO needing one switch more than ANSI. That will probably be covered by the winkey switches in most cases, but should at least get a remark in the sheet or something.

Wow.. I really do suck at ISO ... good catch

@Techno... appreciate the feedback. I'll see what we can roll in.

Overall... the prices make everyone happy? I am hoping so. If not, I need to shop overseas (this is still local minus the PCB and Controller)

[E TwentyNine]

Prices are great, I did notice in the spreadsheet that shipping did not scale per kit while packaging did. I'm guessing it should, though I don't know how you're packaging. If I order multiple sets of just plates and PCBs that could all be one box, etc.

Maybe calculating shipping is a little more complex...

[lot_lizard]

Prices are great, I did notice in the spreadsheet that shipping did not scale per kit while packaging did. I'm guessing it should.

Thanks for catching that... I'll update. They will be separate containers. If you really had no interest in the packaging and just wanted multiples of the board, make a note to me and we can work something out. You might have to loose the "made for a model M" interior packaging supports, but I certainly don't want anyone to be gouged for silly stuff.

[chzel]

Any chance of beige powdercoating or raw for the top plate?

If we'd like to order a mix of form factors of the same color, should we submit separate forms? e.g. 2 SSK and 2 101 blue powdercoated top plates.

This^^
And by the way, prices are great!

[Techno Trousers]

I wanted to say, too, that the prices are really great, especially considering what we're getting.

[alh84001]

40 seems like a lot to me, but I am not sure what you typically go through.

Well, most of us from Europe are in the EU (I don't know if there's anyone in Switzerland or Norway), so it would come to $20 + $5-$10 for sea freight, so around $30 for shipping seems the target for us in the EU. There will probably be some tax costs associated as well, though.

[ohaimark]

Your PayPal fee calculation is a wee bit off. You shouldn't just multiply the end result, X, by .0375:

(X * 0.0375) doesn't equal the actual fee.

PayPal's actual fees are 2.9% + $0.30, which results in something like this:

X = (Y + .3) / .971 where X is the final charge value and Y is the desired income value

So to get X, enter Y... (100 + .3) / .971 = ~103.30

Thus, $103.3 should result in a final income of $100.

[DMA]

Your PayPal fee calculation is a wee bit off. You shouldn't just multiply the end result, X, by .0375:

(X * 0.0375) doesn't equal the actual fee.
[snip]
Thus, $103.3 should result in a final income of $100.

BUSTED!
Now we know where's the profiteering motive in all that!

[lot_lizard]

BUSTED!
Now we know where's the profiteering motive in all that!

Crack me up... Yes... Superman III rounding fails again

Your PayPal fee calculation is a wee bit off

I wasn't aware of this either until being on the phone with them for a bit. There are several pricing structures other than what is advertised with some back end benefits (for both PayPal and the insurance of the merchant). We are in a weird space because we are about to take in 20-35k within a month out of no where with much of it being international towards an LLC called "Lot Lizard LLC" (sirens are going off in PayPal land!!). There are different rate plans based on credit checks and assurances. For around .50-1.00 a transaction premium in our case, we worked out one that is a flat rate where the gates should stay open without issue (no "collectors needed"). We'll see... For any transaction sub 100 dollars, it will be handled differently (more like the traditional PayPal fee)... But I am assuming that is a minority


I really do appreciate you checking over the spreadsheet calculations that closely.

[Techno Trousers]

much of it being international towards an LLC called "Lot Lizard LLC" (sirens are going off in PayPal land!!).

That made me laugh, since you explained the origin of your username earlier in this thread.

[drevyek]

This shipping is either domestic or non-domestic- where does Canada fit? is that still (basically) CONUS?

I think that the Kit section should enumerate exactly what is included (Fasteners, foam, etc) to be absolutely clear.

Really happy overall with the prices too- I expected it to be much higher.

[Ir0n]

Actually the red will be something quite close to what Ellipse picked for his project (love that shade.. always have).

I have you know I picked out that color! I had to find 4 other people to go in on it with me! Rofl
On a more serious note
This project was a lot cheaper than I was expecting it to be, and USB-C was a nice touch..thank god I can finally use USB-C for something! I think that might be the part I'm most hyped for.

[lot_lizard]

This shipping is either domestic or non-domestic- where does Canada fit? is that still (basically) CONUS?

just to keep it simple, I'm only presenting a couple of options. I am going to review all of these before I would send an invoice, and if it needed to be slightly different on shipping... I would just change the invoice total to compensate and send you note stating why. As an example, anyone in South America would likely be different as I would ship direct from me vs. the Euro proxy

I have you know I picked out that color! I had to find 4 other people to go in on it with me! Rofl

Different manufactures will handle all of this differently. If we only end up with say 1 green, it would still happen, but it might cause a little of a delay until they could work into some batch. There actually is different pricing typically when you deviate from the "standard" color. We get to avoid this because of our personal relationship with the producers in this case.

[POTV]

I´m really impressed by all the efforts, some talented people are putting into this project. I have a few questions - and the answers would benefit less technically gifted people like myself...

1) Is the "pinging" as loud with these these keyboards as normal Model F´s - and is a floss mod recommended for most people?

2) What does a "Side Space" look like, mentioned on the sheet? (Picture, please)

3) How far away are the alternative keyboard cases, both metal and resin?

4) Is the USB-C connection generally regarded as superior compared to the other alternatives?

5) Is the ISO enter key the new type or the old with wire stabilizer?

(And please make an "ISO" opportunity on the sheet, as earlier mentioned, in order to avoid terrible mistakes for us europeans)

[lot_lizard]

1) Is the "pinging" as loud with these these keyboards as normal Model F´s - and is a floss mod recommended for most people?

If you expecting this to be quieter than the Model M, you will be disappointed. The "event" of the spring striking the barrel, and flipper paddle contacting the both the PCB and barrel roof on release is a much more violent action. It is crisp, and has a refined feel... But it is a different loud. The effort has instead been to make that sound and feel consistent through the board. There is "ping", but if you familiar with the Bigfoot/XT, it is a close comparison. I have mixed feelings about the floss mod. My previous attempts with it were much better than my previous.

2) What does a "Side Space" look like, mentioned on the sheet? (Picture, please)

I'll be sure to a better job describing everything in the Marketplace thread and in the form itself (many pictures)

3) How far away are the alternative keyboard cases, both metal and resin?

I can't speak to the resin SSK molds, but I would think 1st quarter for the metal ones. I am wanting to do a metal case on the beamspring as a 5251 replacement, and would likely do both at once

4) Is the USB-C connection generally regarded as superior compared to the other alternatives?

It is a better technology for sure, but unnecessary for additional function our reliability here. All would be equal. It would be a question of appearance, durability of the connector, and cable availability. The only technical difference would come in if you did a mod where you were using the board as a USB hub, etc

5) Is the ISO enter key the new type or the old with wire stabilizer?

There will be wire stabilizer clips through the board for I believe all variations we dreamed up