Realforce RGB

User avatar
002
Topre Enthusiast

18 Dec 2016, 06:12

Hello Deskthoritarians,

I got my grubby hands on Topre’s new Realforce RGB and I thought I would share my thoughts on it. Full disclosure: Topre sent me this keyboard knowing full well that I am a big nerd for them so they probably thought it would be a safe bet ;)
Oddly enough, despite my general apathy toward backlit keyboards, the only two review units that have been offered to me to this point have been of that ilk. For those that remember, Cooler Master sent me a Quick Fire XTi for review last year. You can have a read of that here if you like.

On to the review!

Specifications

Main Features:
  • Topre Switches: Premium tactile feel that conquers fatigue. Quieter and comfortable.
  • RGB Backlighting: 16.8 million colors. Per-key lighting. Software control.
  • Actuation Point Changer: Control your accuracy with 25% faster key to key transitions.
  • Keycap Compatibility: Supports custom keycaps and padding (sold separately) for added comfort or style.
  • Made in Japan: 33 years of unsurpassed quality control. Manufactured in-house with the finest materials and electronic components.
Technical Specs:
  • Model name: AEAX01 (REALFORCE RGB)
  • Weight: 1400 g (including packaging)
  • Dimensions: 142 mm (W) x 455 mm (L) x 30 mm (H)
  • Number of Keys: 108 Layout
  • Length of cable: 1.5 m / 5 feet
  • Switch: Electrostatic Capacitive & Non Contact Switch
  • Key Life Time: 50 million times
  • Key Weight: 45g ± 15 g
  • Key Shapes: Ergonomic Step Sculpture
  • N-Key Rollover: Full N key rollover
  • Labelling of Keycaps: Double Shot Keycaps
  • Interface: USB
  • Warranty: 1 year limited warranty
Features and specifications were lifted directly from Seasonic’s website here: http://seasonic.com/ssa-en/portfolio/to ... force-rgb/
So let’s first address the elephant in the room: Yes this is a keyboard targeted at gamers and many of us don’t care for RGB or buy into the cringey marketing fluff that is typically attached to such keyboards. I will be looking at the Realforce RGB for what it is, and honestly giving my opinions on what I personally feel are the positive and negative aspects.

In terms of the technical specifications, there’s not much difference between the RGB and a standard Realforce keyboard. The biggest stand-out difference in the tech specs list is probably just the double-shot ABS keycaps – a first for a premium Realforce and probably one of the things that many people are apprehensive about when they look at the RGB compared to the standard Realforce with its PBT keycaps. I tested briefly the N-KRO functionality on Microsoft’s Keyboard Ghosting Demonstration website and the Realforce RGB seems to be correctly registering huge open-palm mashes without a problem.
The feature list is where Topre have spent most of their energy with this keyboard, and this is where we begin to see the radical differences, which I will touch on in further detail below...


Packaging

Many of you are probably familiar with Topre’s very no-frills cardboard box keyboard packaging. Aside from a few Engrish bullet points (including the famous “oneness with cup rubber”), the box doesn’t tell you much else, and maybe that’s the way it ought to be. The thing is, once you’ve seen one Realforce box, you may as well have seen them all – they haven’t really changed it in over 15 years.

As for the Realforce RGB: On the outside, we have a slim cardboard sleeve with all the branding and marketing. Opening that up we have, from what I can tell, a black version of Topre’s el classico brown cardboard box, which opens to the Realforce itself which, instead of the usual loosely fitting gigantic condom, is sheathed in a foam bag of sorts. As far as accessories and other stuff, we just have the giant reference card / user manual. No keycap pullers or replacement keycaps or anything like that. Nothing too exciting here.


Look and Feel

The first thing you notice when you pick it up as that it’s just as heavy and substantial feeling as most full-sized mechanical keyboards tend to be these days. It’s a touch lighter than the old Realforce, probably owing to the slimmer dimensions – they’ve trimmed a lot of the fat from the old case design. Holding the keyboard at the edges, I noticed that there is a bit of give / movement where you can push the edges in and get a bit of a creak noise happening. Same deal with the front edge below the spacebar. It’s not something you are going to notice when the keyboard is flat on the desk but I thought it was worth noting. I think overall, the fit is probably more solid than the classic Realforce – on some of my classic Realforces, I can shift the entire top shell left or right probably 1 - 1.5mm which is something I’ve just come to accept as being a flaw in the old case design because of not using any screws to hold it shut.

The finishes on the keycaps and the case itself are good. The case does not have the matte-style finish like the NovaTouch which is good for me personally, because although the matte finish *looks* great, it does not cope well with oils from fingers / hands. The Realforce RGB case has a fine grainy finish which is, I would say, finer than a classic Realforce. The keycap texture on the RGB matches the case very nicely too. In the top-right, we have the LED plate which is a glossy finish on acrylic or glass (I can’t really tell) which has the modern REALFORCE logo, along with usual indicators for Caps, Scroll, and Num lock, and as a new addition, we have ‘Key Lock’ which becomes active with Fn + F12. The LED plate surrounds four additional keys; three for volume control, and one for controlling the actuation point setting on the fly.

The metal mounting plate underneath the keys is painted white. I think that this is just to accentuate the glowing effect of the RGB backlighting which some may like and others may not. On the bottom of the keyboard itself, we have cable-routing channels for left, right and centre exit points. There are four rubber feet in the corners for stability, and pop-down height adjustment feet.

Before I got the Realforce RGB, I was convinced that I would not like the keycap feel simply based on what I’d seen in pictures. I can honestly say that after using it for a week, the stock keycaps are in fact perfectly fine and useable. They feel very refined and not cheap at all. The only gripe I have is that the font is ugly and centred at the top of the keycap. The centring of the legends is excusable I suppose because of the way that that LEDs are positioned under the switch housing (at the top), they obviously wanted to get a high level of light coming through, but the font is just bad.

If you think that the RGB will feel like the NovaTouch, you are mistaken. I have been using a NovaTouch at home for a couple of months now as my daily driver, so I am familiar with its feel and sound. Within 30 minutes of using the Realforce RGB, I could tell that something was different, so I messaged Topre and I just mentioned the fact that it feels like the keys (especially the stabilised ones) felt smoother and quieter than what I was used to on the NovaTouch. At this point he revealed that Topre engineers did improve manufacturing tolerances just for the RGB – so there you have it. I swear I did not know this going into the review, so that’s some real talk there for ya boys and girls. The RGB is really a pleasure to type on. I do prefer TKL layout so hopefully Topre will produce one in the future.


Features

The Realforce RGB is the first keyboard with the ‘Realforce’ badge to depart from Topre’s legacy stem mounting method, instead adopting the seemingly de facto industry standard Cherry MX mount. As most of you know however, Topre have been producing MX mount sliders for Cooler Master’s NovaTouch TKL for quite a while now, so it’s not exactly new ground in that regard.

One thing that has changed is that the stabiliser setup. Instead of the strange semi-circles like the NovaTouch had, the RGB adopts a more traditional method as you will see in the pictures below. This might be a big part of the reason why the stabilised keycaps feel much smoother and less rattly than the NovaTouch.
Another thing that is different and new for Topre is that the switch housings are translucent to allow the RGB backlighting to shine through. This seems to go along with Topre’s apparent decision to go maximum-bling and impact with the white backplate to enhance the lighting effect. If they were going for understated then they might have added LED windows to the standard black switch housing, but that’s probably more complex to produce than simply choosing clear plastic – I don’t know.

Topre have done a decent job of their ‘REALFORCE RGB Software’ application. I won’t go into too much detail there – if you really want to read about it you can do so here.
The big point is that you *need* the software to change the key lock, backlighting and for adjusting the Actuation Point Changer (APC) setting *per key*. The dedicated APC key in the top right allows you to cycle the level across the whole keyboard (blue is 1.5mm, green is 2.2mm and red is 3.0mm), but doing it individually requires the software. As far as I can tell, they only have software for Windows – so that might be a bit of a problem if you use Mac as you may not be able to take advantage of all the features.

The Actuation Point Changer setting is a cool idea and I think it will appeal maybe to gamers. I tested it in a very ghetto way but it at least more-or-less proves that it works. Firstly, what I did was set two horizontally adjacent keys to 1.5mm and 2.2mm and then I pressed them both at the same time repeatedly by laying a sturdy piece of cardboard across both keys and pressing in the middle. Indeed, the key set to 1.5mm actuated before the 2.2mm key every time. And once again I tested 2.2mm vs 3.0mm and got the expected result of 2.2mm winning against 3.0mm. Finally, I did all three at once and confirmed the outcome of 1.5mm, 2.2mm, 3.0mm. I was not able to tell the difference between settings just with standard typing even at the 3.0mm setting. I’ve also tried the 1.5mm and 2.2mm settings in Overwatch and CS:GO and I personally can’t tell the difference either but I am not an avid gamer who is overly sensitive to such things.

Rounding out the rest of the keyboard, Topre have added media controls, shortcuts and a Caps / Ctrl toggle key along the F-keys, as well as functions on the Nav cluster for controlling some of the LED settings without opening the software. These can be accessed with Fn + <key> as you’d expect.


Conclusion

Some may not agree with the direction that Topre is going with the Realforce RGB, but the good news is that for those who love the classic Realforce (myself included), you can rest assured that the RGB does not spell the end of the road for the understated beast we all know and love. Topre have advised that they have no plans to discontinue the existing Realforce line. Topre are very obviously trying to make inroads into the competitive and lucrative gaming peripheral scene with the Realforce RGB, and you should probably not be upset about that.

We are very lucky to be spoilt for choice these days when it comes to mechanical keyboards and I have no doubt that the additional features on the Realforce RGB will tick all the boxes for a lot of people and be a compelling choice for many. Some of the technology might even make a welcome change to the classic Realforce line in the future. Indeed, that already appears to be the case with the introduction of the Realforce 108UH-ANLG in Japan just recently, a keyboard with an even finer level of actuation point control than the Realforce RGB.

Overall, I found the Realforce RGB to be an excellent keyboard with the signature Topre feel. Its shortcomings are only subjective aesthetic ones which (if it bothers you that much) could be corrected or improved with custom keycaps, of which a world of options are now available thanks to Topre’s adoption of the ubiquitous MX mount.

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User avatar
Muirium
µ

18 Dec 2016, 06:41

Nice review from our resident Mr. Topre. How do you find those new stabs, in feel and in keycap pulling, compared to Costar and Cherry on regular MX?

And how are these new MX compatible sliders in the clack and silencing ring stakes? How does this handle compared to our complex old friend the Novatouch?

Also: whut, no kewl metal case colours!?

Anyway, good to see Topre still trying. And especially the encouraging words about the classic Realforce. You have to wonder if they're going MX mount across the board, and how compatible their top notch PBT caps might be with the other boards the plebs already use!

User avatar
002
Topre Enthusiast

18 Dec 2016, 06:55

Hey Mu -- how are you going? :)
The stabilised caps are just excellent on the RGB. Pulling the caps is ez pz too, especially on the spacebar. When I replaced the caps on my NovaTouch, pulling the caps from the spacebar was really hairy as they were seated on there good and well. Not so with the RGB -- even with aftermarket caps.

As for Costar vs Cherry vs Realforce RGB; I think my only extended time with Cherry style stabs was with the first iteration of the Poker and honesty I did not like them. Found them to have too much friction and it actually felt like they had reduced travel, but I have no idea if that's a problem with the Poker or is the same thing with other Cherry keyboards. I recall liking the feel of the Costar stabilisers on the Filco but mine got squeaky after a while. Time will tell if the RGB stabilisers hold up, but for now they are very smooth and don't have the same rattle that the NovaTouch has.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

18 Dec 2016, 08:05

Promising!

How about some pics with real classy caps on instead? Given that was the NovaTouch's forte.

User avatar
matt3o
-[°_°]-

18 Dec 2016, 08:52

damn! now I want one...

User avatar
zslane

18 Dec 2016, 09:45

I found that stock, the RGB produced an unnervingly loud upstroke clack. With silencing rings, it became sublime.

In fact, I like the board so much I bought two. The second one I am planning to paint white.

User avatar
002
Topre Enthusiast

18 Dec 2016, 09:55

Here's some more pics, including with Geekkeys PBT dye-sub set. Honestly I think they did a really nice job with the stock ABS keycaps. The thicker PBT keycaps do make the keyboard quieter but the return clack of Topre has never really been something that bothered me.

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User avatar
seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

18 Dec 2016, 10:04

002 wrote: Here's some more pics, including with Geekkeys PBT dye-sub set. Honestly I think they did a really nice job with the stock ABS keycaps. The thicker PBT keycaps do make the keyboard quieter but the return clack of Topre has never really been something that bothered me.
Ahh now that's a differnet story with that Geekkeys PBT dye-sub set! Great review 002! If did not have my 87U I might considder destroying my wallet, I have seen these pop up on greedbay for bold prices. Like so many I've never owned a full size Topre keyboard. But the MX mod possibilities...that's the seller on this.

User avatar
mars

18 Dec 2016, 12:07

Thank you for the review.
Do you think the stabilized mx stems could be installed on a Classic realforce like the 87u?

User avatar
002
Topre Enthusiast

18 Dec 2016, 12:17

Just going by looks I would say that it's going to be very difficult and probably not worth it -- simply because the classic Realforce has giant cut-outs for their stabilised keycaps so you would need to address that somehow.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

19 Dec 2016, 03:07

I like the way EliteKeyboards puts it on the product page:
EK wrote:Cherry MX compatible Two-shot keycaps

Answering the call of market forces, Topre RGB switches are compatible with Cherry MX keyswitches. Please note the Realforce RGB is not compatible with standard Topre keycaps.
Another market force would be Bluetooth and a nice pearly white set of your classic dyesubs but in new MX mount! Well, the µ market. Also a metal cased TKL…

User avatar
Elrick

19 Dec 2016, 05:49

002 wrote: [*]Made in Japan: 33 years of unsurpassed quality control. Manufactured in-house with the finest materials and electronic components.[/list]
This is the ONLY thing I love about Realforce and their keyboards.

As long as their in house quality standards remain high, they can get away with any type of Gamer-Abortion styled keyboards.

Just hope they stick to only one such travesty instead of reeling out several more :roll: .

User avatar
seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

19 Dec 2016, 09:33

Muirium wrote: Another market force would be Bluetooth and a nice pearly white set of your classic dyesubs but in new MX mount! Well, the µ market. Also a metal cased TKL…
In that case I would considder...

User avatar
zslane

19 Dec 2016, 17:34

Have there ever been aftermarket (e.g., metal) cases available for RealForce boards?

User avatar
Muirium
µ

19 Dec 2016, 17:57

There was talk of one for the NovaTouch. And I vaguely recall Topre having a small range of snazzy primary coloured metal topped boards (the last Type Heaven generation maybe?) to show at some point.

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Khers

19 Dec 2016, 18:12

Digilog has made at least two versions of aftermarket aluminium cases for TKL Realforces, but I haven't seen them for sale for ages

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mj45

20 Dec 2016, 16:26

Thank's for the review 002, I would like to see the RF RGB out of its case. Probably not possible with the review sample. I am sure there will be someone posting the internals soon.

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zslane

20 Dec 2016, 17:28

The internals are pretty basic: PCB (w/ USB cable), springs, rubber dome sheet, white metal plate with clear switch housings, and white MX-compatible sliders.

As far as I can tell, the cable, springs, and dome sheet are essentially the same as in any other RealForce board (only the layout of the domes is slightly different). And you can see the plate with switch housings (and sliders) in the photos above.

zeeko

24 Dec 2016, 04:05

I see, they used a similar design as the Ducky Shine 5 for the case (that angled edge on the top under the escape key).

So... does this Topre feel different than those Royal Kludge clones? They feel a bit more linear, because they are pre-silenced.

User avatar
002
Topre Enthusiast

24 Dec 2016, 09:04

I haven't used a Royal Kludge, but I've tried a Noppoo 108-EC Pro which I believe is the same switch. The difference between the Noppoo and Topre is night and day in my opinion -- others might disagree though.

I will open the keyboard up and post some pictures when I get back from my short trip some time around the 29th. Have a safe and happy holiday season, guys :)

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zslane

24 Dec 2016, 18:31

I agree with 002.

I own a Noppoo EC108Pro and it feels nothing at all like a Topre. The Noppoo switches feel like silenced linear switches, not tactile Topre domes. In fact, I was so disappointed by the Noppoo that I opened it up and harvested its silencing rings for my RealForce RGB board. The sliders are also fodder for possible transplantation into some other RealForce board.

User avatar
XMIT
[ XMIT ]

24 Dec 2016, 21:47

A new 55g dome pad (which feels sort of like a 40g Topre would) makes things rather better with the Noppoo but it's still no Realforce. I even lubricated the sliders on it and it didn't help so much! I think it's partially the aluminum plate that changes the sound a bit and makes the board less heavy, and partially the fact that the Noppoo's sliders still feel scratchy even after lubrication.

I'd need HaaTa's gauge to be any more specific.

User avatar
vivalarevolución
formerly prdlm2009

28 Dec 2016, 02:19

zslane wrote: I agree with 002.

I own a Noppoo EC108Pro and it feels nothing at all like a Topre. The Noppoo switches feel like silenced linear switches, not tactile Topre domes. In fact, I was so disappointed by the Noppoo that I opened it up and harvested its silencing rings for my RealForce RGB board. The sliders are also fodder for possible transplantation into some other RealForce board.
I agree with both of you.

Great to hear that the quality holds up to Topre standards! Thanks for the review. I personally would grow tired of those keycaps and change them out for something...I don't know...more classic. It would be interesting to take some of the new features in this keyboard, such as the more compact case and MX-mount sliders, and have those applied to the regular Topre line, without sacrificing the quality of the keyboard. We'll see.

User avatar
Hypersphere

11 Jan 2017, 15:19

zslane wrote: I found that stock, the RGB produced an unnervingly loud upstroke clack. With silencing rings, it became sublime.

In fact, I like the board so much I bought two. The second one I am planning to paint white.
Regarding silencing rings, did you use the ones that I am selling or something else? My wife got a message from someone today saying that our rings did not fit the sliders on the RGB Topre board. I do not have one of these boards as yet, so I have not been able to test the rings on it myself.

Oops! I just spotted your other post saying that you harvested the rings from a Noppoo keyboard. Looks like I will need to get a Topre RGB for a tear-down. However, if the RGB sliders require a different ring from those used on conventional Topre sliders, I might not be able to supply them, as the cost for producing what I imagine will be a small subset of a special size would be prohibitive.

If anyone has an extra RGB slider to sell, please let me know. Alternatively, if someone would care to do very careful measurements of the inner and outer diameters that would be required for silencing rings on these sliders, I would be grateful to receive the dimensions.

ahjkldfghs

11 Jan 2017, 16:53

I recently installed your hypersphere rings on a Realforce RGB and as far as I could tell they fit perfectly. Keyboard feels great afterwards too. Also put Leopold PBT keycaps on it. Sounds and feels great.

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zslane

11 Jan 2017, 19:09

I put your silencing rings on my second RealForce RGB board and they work just fine. They don't fit as tightly around the sliders as the tiny bands that came from my Noppoo do (or the ones that come with the sliders from AliExpress), but I haven't experienced any issues with them.

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Hypersphere

12 Jan 2017, 00:05

@ahjkldfghs and @zslane:

It is good to know that the Hypersphere Rings apparently work on the sliders in the Topre RF RGB keyboard.

However, the fellow who sent us a message through eBay said that he needed to cut a slice off one side of each ring to prevent it from causing the slider to bind.

He has also posted his mod on GH:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=86901.0
rgb_ring-mod1.jpg
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And there are more of his pics on Imgur:

http://imgur.com/a/jJqfw

It looks as though Topre redesigned the slider not only to enable Cherry mx caps to be used but also to make room for the LED on each switch.

It would probably be cost-prohibitive for me to make separate batches of rings for the RGB RF board unless Topre decides to retool and make these new sliders the default for all future Topre-switch boards. Therefore, it is good to know that this mod is something relatively simple that would be easy for the end-user to perform on the standard-issue Silencing Rings.

User avatar
zslane

12 Jan 2017, 00:32

Yeah, I saw that. Makes me a little worried because I don't want to open up my board again, take out all those rings and try to accurately snip off a portion of each one, then reinstall them all. Besides, what prevents them from shifting out of position during use and getting dislodged incorrectly even after making that mod?

To be honest, I haven't typed for real on my RGB board with the Hypersphere rings yet. I guess I was just assuming my quick tests were sufficient, and in those tests I didn't feel any binding. I guess I'll know for sure in about two weeks (which is when I'll have my second RGB board reassembled for use again).

User avatar
002
Topre Enthusiast

12 Jan 2017, 01:16

I think I might've come across a bug with the Actuation Point Change functionality.
The other night I was playing Overwatch and I switched to the 1.5mm setting. Everything was functioning OK on the WASD cluster but almost every time I'd try to press 'Tab', it would also press 'Esc'. I wonder if the 1.5mm setting makes it just a little bit *too* sensitive.

User avatar
TuxKey
LLAP

16 Jan 2017, 16:39

Great review 002.
i wanted to read your review for a while now but never got around to it.

The only deal breaker i have with the board is the need to install software.
That’s one of the things i always liked about Ducky products and one of the main reasons why i bought the Ducky Secret.
And the case could be a bit better considering the price point :D

i don’t mind Topre wanting to transform the keyboard in to a Christmas tree and with that appeal to gamers.
On the other hand i don’t see gamers spending €270 on a keyboard the gamers i know spend more $$ on their graphics cards and mouse than on a keyboard. The guys i know stick with mx-reds and a couple with mx-browns..


The mx stem and less bulky housing are worthwhile features in my opinion.
But i would love to see a TKL size. And preferably one that is programable, i mean why the heck not there is OpenSource software
to do that so there is minimal R&D cost involved strange that we don’t see that in keyboards.

One second thing i would love to see on the TKL RGB is removable cabling making it portable like my FC660C.

btw; the Actuation Point Changer seems a bit gimmicky to me although the difference between 1.5 and 3mm sounds like a lot.
i have no idea what the actuation point is of a normal Topre switch?


SideNote; all this talk about “the Hypersphere Rings” makes me want to open up my FC660C and use the set i got a while back.
ahh well don’t have the time to do it now.
i was looking for a howto on how to open the FC660C and found someone selling this
“Leopold FC660C silenced with Hypersphere's rings and lubed with medium Krytox” hahaha...
never thought about lubing my Topre FC..


final thoughts; having paid $246 for my FC660C i can’t see myself spending the same amount on a keyboard without
a compelling feature. And the two things i mis on my board are mx compatibility and programability.

Thanks for the review, awesome read :geek:

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