IDENTIFY THE KEYBOARD thread

[mik]

Hello everyone,

Someone took this picture for me in a local thrift store. I think most of them are boring rubber domes, but I wonder about the second one from the bottom (sorry I don't have a better picture). It seems to have two sets of five function keys and the spacebar is unusually large with only one modifier. Also look at the arrow keys that are placed one row from the bottom. I reminds me of an Amiga keyboard, but I know it isn't...

$_85.JPG (72.41 KiB) Viewed 8044 times

[LittleKawaiiNeko]

>I think most of them are boring rubber domes
Not all. One of them is Compaq branded Mitsumi KPQ-E99AC. Mitsumi tactile hybrid switches (inverted rudder domes on slider), all-white case and keycaps, red Compaq logo, "normal ANSI" Enter key. Small (for a 101-key) and silent.

[Slom]

Hello everyone,

[...] I think most of them are boring rubber domes, but I wonder about the second one from the bottom (sorry I don't have a better picture). [...]

That layout is from the DEC LK201. Has been cloned by quite some manufacturers apparently. Based on the edges around the key areas it could even be the original, which would be slider over spring over membrane.

My clone of this layout has foam and foil:

DSC01153.JPG (677.02 KiB) Viewed 8004 times

[mik]

Thanks guys, it may be worth buying the lot perhaps. Is there any chance of connecting that LK201 to modern hardware by the way?

[Myoth]

Hello, (this is my first post so bear with my non-existing knowledge of deskthority)
I stumbled upon this keyboard which looks very interesting but the thing is i don't know which switches it uses but i have an information about the keyboard itself (a "MEMOTECH MTX KEYBOARD") but i don't find informations on it on the internet. Could you please help me identify those switches (also if the keycaps MX-compatible ?)

[Daniel Beardsmore]

http://primrosebank.net/computers/mtx/c ... yboard.htm

The switches are Futaba ML series (model/part ML-3-CM) and they don't take Cherry keycaps (the cross vanes are too large).

[pixelheresy]

Ok... Got a cool looking, but kind of weird one.

It is a West German (so 80's in all likelihood) Philips terminal keyboard. Doing a little research, it appears to match the one in the picture for the Philips X3300 terminal, but really can't find solid information beyond that anyway.

Unknown linear switches... Double-shot (and uniquely shaped) keycaps. Some really funky labels and symbols.

Has a 5 pin DIN, so going to see if I can get working with a Soarer's (albeit, I do not have one on hand, but will flash an Arduino for that purpose).







Yeah, got to clean this bad boy up. Also, the entire case is metal, so it weighs a ton. Didn't open it up yet, but wanting to get an idea of what it was before dismantling it.

[seebart]

Ha I was looking at that auction. Very nice, I'd like to see some more pics plz! Certainly does not look like the Philips keyswitch we have on file:

wiki/Philips_keyswitch

[pixelheresy]

Ha I was looking at that auction. Very nice, I'd like to see some more pics plz! Certainly does not look like the Philips keyswitch we have on file:

wiki/Philips_keyswitch

Ha! Yeah, saw it on eBay for cheap and thought it was very cool looking.

Doesn't look like a standard Philips switch. Feels like a rather stiff linear mechanical one.

Basically I'd love to figure out as much as possible and put it to use, preferably in the least invasive way possible:
1) Soarer's Coverter or similar to decode scan codes and output USB HID
2) Pop the bitch open, and try to figure out the matrix (w/o cutting traces) and wire to teensy or similar
3) The above, but cut traces to isolate matrix
4) Ignore the board and handwire
5) Scavenge keycaps, get adapters printed/mod keycaps underneith and repurpose on another board

5 is a last resort, since I have no clue if the switches work. They feel ok, but don't know.

Really strange since much of the left side is .25u wider. And the big F4. Otherwise, the legends are pretty much US ANSI, except for the overall ISO layout.

Also 7u space bar. It's massive.

Will take more pics. The caps are thinner than many other vintage double shot and sound like ABS, but the molding is razor sharp. The only thing thing apparently "broken" are missing hinged feet on the bottom, but profile of the board and caps are nice as is.

[seebart]

It would be nice to try and find out what kind of switch it uses first. Open it up when you have time.

[pixelheresy]

More pics:

Missing feet:


Perspective of the profile:


The connector:


Note that silver around the label is not more label... rather it is unpainted metal.

Close-up of Caps Lock, stabilizer, and LED:


Beyond the space, the caps lock, and the two big enter keys (neither of which I was able to pop off, since I didn't want to destroy the stabilizers), all the larger keys are 100% unstabilized.

Unstablized shift and tab next to caps:


Note what appear to be diodes in the keyswitch housing. This is likely means that it likely that it has n-key rollover... need to check electrically once open. Also, I love double shot caps with little windows.

Closeup of the profile on the space:


You can almost cut yourself with an edge like that!

Closeup of where the paint has been chipped off from the metal of the case:

[pixelheresy]

Always carry a screwdriver set to work, but do not have a full compliment of tools. Without pliers or a small adjustable wrench, cannot liberate the risers and get completely inside to take a look, but got pretty far. Nothing too identifiable though...

After popping the top panel off:


Hey there, cutie. You want to beep, don't you...:


FYI, chips on board seem to be 1985 or earlier in manufacture. Overall the inside/PCB looks like in lovely shape.

The back of the PCB... traces seem to imply a standard keymatrix (rather than anything too esoteric or exotic). There do seem to be inline diodes... so yeah, this may very well have n-key rollover:



The brass standoffs prevent me from taking the front frame, so limited view of the front of the PCB. Will bring more tools to work tomorrow.

Also, notice the side piece in the above picture, all cast metal. This keyboard could easily be used as an improvised weapon.

Little shot of the markings on the back of the PCB... don't seem to be telling of much anything:


From the board and that the only thing beside the PCB still attached is a layer of insulation (so the metal from doesn't make direct contact with the PCB surface), that's it. It's certainly not (from the traces or from a membrane layer) some kind of non-mechanical switch. Still extremely curious what kind of switches they are. Would ideally like to open them up and clean them/lube them (if I could figure out how) since some feel a little dirty, but honestly all of them are probably serviceable. The soldier points all look pristine and no visible cracking on anything. Just some fluff and dirt.

[Harshmallow]

Well this just further reinforces my fondness of Philips - they make good shit! My toothbrush and electric razor, as well as a previous CRT monitor have all lasted years and never broke.

[seebart]

Thanks for the pictures! I was going to say that switch looks like Ericsson but it's not.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

It's the one that looks a lot like Ericsson RMD 973 but isn't. Could be Ericsson, but past experiences tell me that it will be some new brand, as it always is in such cases. One prior keyboard: https://www.flickr.com/photos/triplehaa ... 1768508354 — nothing else known at all.

[pixelheresy]

It's the one that looks a lot like Ericsson RMD 973 but isn't. Could be Ericsson, but past experiences tell me that it will be some new brand, as it always is in such cases. One prior keyboard: https://www.flickr.com/photos/triplehaa ... 1768508354 — nothing else known at all.

Holy shit. That is exactly it. I looked through the pictures and the lock key in the gallery is absolutely completely identical to the one on my Philips board. So I looked in the wiki ([wiki]Ericsson_RMD_973_series[/wiki]) and lo and behold, it references Philips. Looking at the reference, vsev has the same exact terminal board (photos-f62/my-biggest-keyboard-shipment ... ml#p207749). Poking around, there isn't much, but it is certainly the same thing as in the few other limited examples referenced here and on Geekhack.

So, mystery solved... kind of... it is that little known Ericsson switch. I'll message vsev to see if he/she has ever hooked it up via a converter, etc.

That still doesn't answer anything about the T\terminal computer from which is came, etc. I googled around a bit and all I found was a couple pictures, but no additional information about the terminal or the keyboard.

[seebart]

Hmm you sure pixelheresy? Have another look at these:

photos-f62/ericsson-type-1121-t5167.html

keyboards-f2/ericsson-type-1121-ericsso ... t=ericsson

[pixelheresy]

Hmm you sure pixelheresy? Have another look at these:

photos-f62/ericsson-type-1121-t5167.html

keyboards-f2/ericsson-type-1121-ericsso ... t=ericsson

Only insofar as the gallery posted above (look at the Loewe's lock switch) and the cap on all known samples (with the small keying bump on the circle mount). They may not all be identical (except that shift lock switch on the Loewe though) but the configuration of the switch, the size, the shape and configuration of the stabilizers, etc. They are certainly all the same series or manufacture, perhaps variants. Too bad we don't have tons and tons of info on that switch type to fall back on...

[Daniel Beardsmore]

That was precisely my point. Take for example the [wiki]Tiki 100[/wiki] — it used both Siemens STB 21 and Sasse Series 25 switches, which share the same keycaps. Keycap compatibility means nothing. The two switch types are similar but come from different companies.

There is no reason to believe that Philips sourced from only one OEM (not only did they patent and manufacture their own switches, but they also had keyboards made by Hi-Tek and potentially other OEMs). Also, the PCB, stabilisers etc may not be from the same company as the switches — some companies tended to make the whole unit (PCB, plate, switches) such as Alps and Hi-Tek, but in other cases the switches were bought in separately and used with a PCB sourced from another supplier.

(Ericsson RMD 973 series was called the "ICL switch" for several years as someone jumped to a conclusion over that one, until a switch was finally examined thoroughly and the branding on the bottom was observed.)

All you can do for now is document everything you have as thoroughly as possible, under [wiki]Category:Unknown switches[/wiki] and wait for more information to arrive. It will, and in a way that will surprise everyone.

[sneaux]

I found some switches I couldn't identify today. They're all from typewriter keyboards.

Spoiler:

The first and last boards I'm not sure about at all. The first one feels very heavy and either has weak tactility or is linear. The second looks like tall cream alps, but is clicky (not just from the grime, I think). The third is linear and looks like SKCC green alps, so I'd think that was it. The last one looks like SKCC side-angled according to the wiki, but is definitely clicky and much lighter than the rest of the switches.





Most of the switches on the first board look like this. I've gone back and forth on this one. At first, I thought it was alps integrated dome. but the cylindrical part is hollow. Then I though maybe fujitsu, but it looked closest to the clicky switch on the wiki, and this definitely isn't clicky.



A few of the switches have the more typical tall cruciform look.










The keycaps from the first fit the two middle boards, but not vice versa. Way larger than cherry mx mount.




Also grabbed a full typewriter cause I wanted to run before I was told this was some kind of joke. I think this is an alps integrated dome switch.



With a few green alps in the smaller keys with LEDs. The larger ones had the same switch as above.



This was a Canon AP-150. On ebay, I asked a seller to remove a keycap on a Canon S-16. Those were also alps compatible switches like these and had very similar if not the same spherical keycaps.

http://imgur.com/a/ZLBFd

[Mattr567]

I know that Canon, I have one just like that. The main switch is Alps SKEW series (integrated dome) while the LED switches are normal SKCL Green. Some of the smaller Canon's have that combo while the bigger Canon AP typewriters have full SKCM/SKCL, usually SKCM Cream/SKCL Green or SKCM Black/SKCL Yellow for later variants.


Here is the keyboard from my S-14. BTW those caps are awesome, put them on my SKCM Amber V60.

[sneaux]

That sounds awesome! How'd you make the layout work?

[Mattr567]

That sounds awesome! How'd you make the layout work?

I used what caps I could. Here's the full thread: photos-f62/kbp-v60-build-with-skcm-ambe ... 15633.html

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I know that Canon, I have one just like that. The main switch is Alps SKEW series (integrated dome) …

In theory … I am still waiting for you to take a better picture where the identifying label is clearly readable.

[LittleKawaiiNeko]

Find this, broken keyboard, selling "as is, for parts"

Spoiler:

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7ad628f706fa.jpg (128.89 KiB) Viewed 7711 times

Alps low profile keyboard, FCC ID CWTKFRCE. Looks not mechanical.
But can anybody tell, is the keycaps on it Alps-monut?

[sneaux]

Update for one of the typewriter keyboards yesterday.. The linear switch I couldn't ID seems like it could be wiki/Mitsumi_simplified. I removed a PCB that was obstructing the view of the back of the PCB that has all the switches soldered to it. Underneath that is a Mitsumi sticker and a number, possibly a date, that my google fu couldn't match to anything. The other numbers on the PCBs point to this possibly being from an Olympia Super Type 330 model typewriter, which may itself be a rebranded Nakajima AE 330. The switches have two aligned pins, like the Mitsumi simplified, but I'll need to desolder the switches to get a better look as they are plate mounted. The other switches on this board are plausibly Mitsumu standard mechanical double action.

[Findecanor]

Find this, broken keyboard, selling "as is, for parts"

Spoiler:

3ec4608d1305.jpg

7ad628f706fa.jpg

Alps low profile keyboard, FCC ID CWTKFRCE. Looks not mechanical.
But can anybody tell, is the keycaps on it Alps-monut?

Rubber dome. Not Alps-mount. Posted about a week ago on Geekhack: "Terrible, terrible rubber dome by Alps Electric Co. - stay away at all cost"

[Mattr567]

I know that Canon, I have one just like that. The main switch is Alps SKEW series (integrated dome) …

In theory … I am still waiting for you to take a better picture where the identifying label is clearly readable.

Oh ok, why didn't you say so! Here you go. Also I desoldered it, pain with a 4 pin switch.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I did say that the find needs to be properly documented.

Interesting to see Mitsumi simplified in a keyboard — as always when I post such finds, I wonder how long it will take before something turns up that uses it. That was pretty fast — Stackpole discrete switch took much longer to get discovered.

[IKSLM]

Any info about this?

Datacomp. That model comes with Futaba clickies, maybe other switches too but none that I know of.

So i bought this keyboard and you were completely right Chyros. It is a Datacomp with plate mounted clicky Futabas. It was terribly dirty and is now being cleaned, still the switches are smooth as Futabas should be. Also, the caps are lovely low profile doubleshots and there's a lot of metal in there.