Bought a KBParadise V80 with Matias Click Switches

[apastuszak]

I really wanted an 80% keyboard I can lug back and forth to the office that had Matias Click switches and an insert key.

At home, I had been using a Tactile Pro and I love the feel of it, but I spend probably 80% of time in an SSH session, and the lack of an insert key was driving me a bit batty.

The only manufacturer I could find that uses Matias Click switches was KBParadise.

I love the double shot keycaps. The lettering is so incredibly crisp.

[pdc]

I have one of these and love how the keys feel -- I don't know how it compares to vintage ALPS or whatever but I find it much nicer to type on than MX tactile switches. But alas! I broke it trying to replace one of the switches, which was chattering.

[SK-8K]

Tai-Hao doubleshots are always beautiful.

[Muirium]

Aye, the caps are nice. Just a shame about the switches. No surprise at all to hear they've been chatttttering. I'd consider a real Alps switch upgrade if I had one of these.

[hellothere]

In my opinion, the Alps switches I've tried, excepting these black linearized switches in the Dell I'm currently typing on, are better (the blacks are too heavy for me). However, that's just an opinion. YMMV. I've also got some Alps clone switches (OA2, I think) that do feel really nice. They're just not as valuable as "real" Alps, so I haven't bothered putting them into another keyboard.

I bought new Matias switches about a year ago now and put them in three or four keyboards and I haven't seen any chattering. Matias did change the housing design for one of their switches -- not sure how long ago -- so chattering Matias switches might be a thing of the past. I have one of those older Matias Ergo keyboards and I replaced the switches with cream damped Alps because of the chattering. And because I had a lot of cream damped Alps switches .

[maxmalkav]

Nice combo!

How is the sound of the Matias clicks on that keyboard?

I got Matias clicky from a very early batch from 7bit and installed them on a Dell, with underwhelming results (for my taste): the sound was too high pitched, hollow and the keys felt wobbly. Maybe the Dell case was the one to blame and I am curious if I missed the real "Matias click experience".

[apastuszak]

Nice combo!

How is the sound of the Matias clicks on that keyboard?

I got Matias clicky from a very early batch from 7bit and installed them on a Dell, with underwhelming results (for my taste): the sound was too high pitched, hollow and the keys felt wobbly. Maybe the Dell case was the one to blame and I am curious if I missed the real "Matias click experience".

The best way to describe it is "crisp." The sound is somewhat high pitched, but there is no key wobble.

[apastuszak]

In my opinion, the Alps switches I've tried, excepting these black linearized switches in the Dell I'm currently typing on, are better (the blacks are too heavy for me). However, that's just an opinion. YMMV. I've also got some Alps clone switches (OA2, I think) that do feel really nice. They're just not as valuable as "real" Alps, so I haven't bothered putting them into another keyboard.

I bought new Matias switches about a year ago now and put them in three or four keyboards and I haven't seen any chattering. Matias did change the housing design for one of their switches -- not sure how long ago -- so chattering Matias switches might be a thing of the past. I have one of those older Matias Ergo keyboards and I replaced the switches with cream damped Alps because of the chattering. And because I had a lot of cream damped Alps switches .

I clicked on each key 10-20 times and all the chattering is gone. I have a Tactile Pro I put in storage for close to a year. It also had some chattering. Did the same "push each key down 10-20 times," and all the chattering is gone now.

[apastuszak]

Aye, the caps are nice. Just a shame about the switches. No surprise at all to hear they've been chatttttering. I'd consider a real Alps switch upgrade if I had one of these.

Why all the hate for Matias switches?

[timw4mail]

Why all the hate for Matias switches?

They apparently have a reputation for chattering.

[apastuszak]

One thing I'm finding with this keyboard (or really any keyboard that uses the same housing as cherry MX switches) is that I make a lot more typos with this keyboard. When I plug in any Model M keyboard, my typing accuracy goes way up. Not sure if it's the keycap profile, or something else.

[apastuszak]

Why all the hate for Matias switches?

They apparently have a reputation for chattering.

Oxidation on the switches. Repeatedly hitting the key will eventually scrape the oxidation off. At least that worked for me.

My biggest problem with them is how tight the keycaps are on the switches. I bought a used Tactile Pro, and tried to take the keycaps off to clean them, and I ripped 3 switches right off the PCB.

When I got this board in, I wanted to pull a keycap, just to confirm that these were Matias switches, and the amount of force I needed to apply really scared me. I gave up before I could pull the keycap off.

I wonder if there's a way to make a Matias/Alps style switch with an MX style mount on top for keycaps.

I'm really not a fan of Cherry MX style switches. I have read good things about box switches. But I am wary, since I really have not liked the MX Blue, MX Red, and MX Brown switches I have tried.

[Muirium]

Why all the hate for Matias switches?

They apparently have a reputation for chattering.

They really do. You'll find conversations about Matias boards breaking down with use all over the forum. I've honestly never heard of a keyboard with Matias switches *without* chattttttttttering keys after extended typing. If anyone's been lucky, pipe up!

I don't dislike Matias as such. But faulty switches are a niiiiiightmare. I'm sure a fair few newcomers to mech keyboards have been put off forever because of a bad first board experience.

I'm really not a fan of Cherry MX style switches. I have read good things about box switches. But I am wary, since I really have not liked the MX Blue, MX Red, and MX Brown switches I have tried.

Box could be worth a try. Their various flavours are certainly different to scratchy old MX. Not smooth enough to woo me from Topre, or satisfyingly clicky enough to challenge Model F, but they're new, compatible and available. Haven't heard any reliabbbility issues either!

[hellothere]

One thing I'm finding with this keyboard (or really any keyboard that uses the same housing as cherry MX switches) is that I make a lot more typos with this keyboard. When I plug in any Model M keyboard, my typing accuracy goes way up. Not sure if it's the keycap profile, or something else.

* Muscle memory. You haven't used the keyboard enough.
* The weighting is lighter. Keyboards that have heavier weighted switches don't activate as easily, so you can accidentally hit a key and it may not actuate.
* The actuation point is higher. If I have a high actuation point on my switches, it's easy to just brush your finger against a key to actuate it.

You should check to see if your accuracy is up AND you type more WMP on the Model M vs the MX. I bet your WPM will be lower.

[Muirium]

In my experience, typing speed is entirely a function of accuracy. As soon as I'm jumping back, correcting my own mistakes, I'm slowed so much more than any difference in actuation height or switch weight could hope to compensate.

Every new kind of keyboard (switches and *especially* physical layouts) needs a warm-up period. You'll get used to it, and should only really compare once you're there: like with like.

[apastuszak]

Why all the hate for Matias switches?

They apparently have a reputation for chattering.

They really do. You'll find conversations about Matias boards breaking down with use all over the forum. I've honestly never heard of a keyboard with Matias switches *without* chattttttttttering keys after extended typing. If anyone's been lucky, pipe up!

I don't dislike Matias as such. But faulty switches are a niiiiiightmare. I'm sure a fair few newcomers to mech keyboards have been put off forever because of a bad first board experience.

I'm really not a fan of Cherry MX style switches. I have read good things about box switches. But I am wary, since I really have not liked the MX Blue, MX Red, and MX Brown switches I have tried.

Box could be worth a try. Their various flavours are certainly different to scratchy old MX. Not smooth enough to woo me from Topre, or satisfyingly clicky enough to challenge Model F, but they're new, compatible and available. Haven't heard any reliabbbility issues either!

Topre boards are way too expensive for me.

[apastuszak]

One thing I'm finding with this keyboard (or really any keyboard that uses the same housing as cherry MX switches) is that I make a lot more typos with this keyboard. When I plug in any Model M keyboard, my typing accuracy goes way up. Not sure if it's the keycap profile, or something else.

* Muscle memory. You haven't used the keyboard enough.
* The weighting is lighter. Keyboards that have heavier weighted switches don't activate as easily, so you can accidentally hit a key and it may not actuate.
* The actuation point is higher. If I have a high actuation point on my switches, it's easy to just brush your finger against a key to actuate it.

You should check to see if your accuracy is up AND you type more WMP on the Model M vs the MX. I bet your WPM will be lower.

What I really need to do is to type properly. I'm a 2-3 finger typist. I took typing back in high school. Maybe time to find whatver the modern equivalent is to Mavis Beacon.

[ollir]

I had some serious issues with Matias Quiet Clicks - the V80 I've got them in is unusable because of the chattering.
But the Matias clicky switches in my Tactile Pro haven't shown any issues.

Sure they aren't as smooth and refined as clicky vintage Alps, but I still like to type with the Tactile Pro. It's not a daily driver or anything, but still fun to work with. The board is just so damn loud and sounds hollow and I think the wobbling keycaps add to the overall noise level the board generates. The Tactile Pro is a board that made me realize why people even pay attention to keycap wobbling. Haven't had such issues with any other board. But all in all those are somewhat minor issues.

[apastuszak]

One thing I'm finding with this keyboard (or really any keyboard that uses the same housing as cherry MX switches) is that I make a lot more typos with this keyboard. When I plug in any Model M keyboard, my typing accuracy goes way up. Not sure if it's the keycap profile, or something else.

* Muscle memory. You haven't used the keyboard enough.
* The weighting is lighter. Keyboards that have heavier weighted switches don't activate as easily, so you can accidentally hit a key and it may not actuate.
* The actuation point is higher. If I have a high actuation point on my switches, it's easy to just brush your finger against a key to actuate it.

You should check to see if your accuracy is up AND you type more WMP on the Model M vs the MX. I bet your WPM will be lower.

I wish I could say it is muscle memory. I bought a Model M from Unicomp (the Ultra Classic). Prior to this purchase, I had never used a Model M before. My typing accuracy improved the very first time I used it. I've been using various Cherry MX style keyboards for probably the last 5-6 years and even after as long as a year of use, my typing accuracy sucks. One time on the Model M, and there was a huge difference.

[Muirium]

I’m going to shock Kbdfr here by standing up for MX for just a change.

I've been using various Cherry MX style keyboards for probably the last 5-6 years and even after as long as a year of use, my typing accuracy sucks. One time on the Model M, and there was a huge difference.

Let me add a nice big tasty dollop of YMMV. Now, as it happens, I’ve used MX for years too, and Alps and Space Invaders and Topre and Model M and Model F. How do different switches affect my typing? Not much, honestly. Oh, they affect the sound and the feel of the experience, they even colour my mood. But the actual characters coming out of the thing and pouring into my computer? Same, more or less as I can tell. I mean, I’ll type longer and get more done on a keyboard that I like than a crapper I do not. But accuracy and speed? Not nearly noticeable enough to say. (Perhaps I should pull out that G81 for a spot of self abuse in the name of dodgy keyboard science someday.)

But YMMV!

What really throws me off is oddball caps (switching between contoured caps and DSA for instance) or indeed unusual layouts (my AT is the prime offender as Model F === Kishsaver to my fingers). Blank caps or Sindarin legends I can’t read are an occasional stutter in my typing too, but not nearly as persistently as a daft layout or caps I hit on the wrong row because they’re doing it wrong, not me.

But the finger gymnastics we call typing is a complex and ultimately personal beast. So I well believe you. Model M’s deeper actuation point, its definitive click, and even the gloriously systematic key profile could well all be helping you. Doesn’t mean MX is wrong, though, just it doesn’t quite suit you.

Hey, Kbdfr: wipe that grin off your tasty Chocolate face! I still maintain they feel and sound lousy compared to the good stuff! I’m just being fair here.

[kbdfr]

I’m going to shock Kbdfr here by standing up for MX for just a change.
[…]
Hey, Kbdfr: wipe that grin off your tasty Chocolate face! […]

Mu, I ceased being chocked shocked by you a long time ago

The weird thing is that the only thing which really affects my typing speed (as a professional touch typist) is the national layout used on a computer (I of couse do not mean simply the characters printed on the keycaps, but the actual keyboard language setting of the computer itself)

I usually type on a French keyboard/computer with MX switches and occasionally on a German keyboard/computer with MY switches, where my typing is significantly slower. But as soon as I switch the computer setting of the German computer to French, I type with my usual speed again (I don’t mean those stupid "words per minute", but real "pages per hour") - even if I hate the feeling of the MY switches.

So my conclusion is that my typing speed (and I mean real output over a certain time) has nothing, or at least, not much to do with the switches. I take no notice of which board or even switches I am using, but concentrate on the task.

And of course a "WPM checker" is by no means a reliable metric for that..

[LambdaCore]

How do you like it compared to Matias’ own offerings? I actually gifted my quiet pro to a work friend so I don’t have it right here as is to compare today but it was always a pleasure to use especially with that extremely quiet space bar and great quality build by modern standards.

[apastuszak]

I can't explain why I type better on a Model M. From all the keyboards I own, my typing accuracy is best on the Model M. Second best on my Matias keyboard. And worst on the Cherry MX. I type better on a cheap rubber dome keyboard than I do on an MX board. I have no idea why. It could be that the typing is the same, just that my Model M mistakes are easier for autocorrect to pick up and fix.

Years ago, when I was first considering mechanical keyboards, we had a stack of old APC keyboards for server racks that had Cherry MX Black switches in them. My typing was so bad on those, that, after a week, I put them away in a drawer, and didn't use a mechanical keyboard for years. Then, years later I got some MX Blue and brown switch keyboards. Wasn't any better. Then I got a Model M, and I noticed the improvement immediately.

I then got a Matias keyboard (a Tactile Pro) and was very happy with it. If it only had an insert key, it might still be my daily driver.

[apastuszak]

On a related note, I lent the KB Paradise keyboard to my son's friend and he loves the thing. He said he's had no chatter issues.

[kshopper2084]

I've used the Matias Ergo Pro (Mac) since it was released, was on the original pre-order list. This had the quiet-click switches.

I've had endless issues with the switches chattering over the years, at one point I bought a bunch of loose switches from Matias and replaced them as they failed until I ran out of them. It was horrible, but I was completely adapted to the ergo split keyboard and didn't want to give that up.

Finally I picked up a refurbed ergo pro on ebay and swapped out all the main key switches an caps with vintage salmon alps from a donor Apple M0116 board. Result = Heaven! Been my daily driver now for almost 3 years. No issues (well the crappy micro USB connector failed as they always do but I rewired it to use the USB 2 port instead).

See viewtopic.php?f=2&t=23000

Recently, I purchased another lightly used Ergo Pro board to have as a spare should this one ever develop issues (my first gen ergo pro blew it's controller chip). So I plugged it in and compared the typing experience compared to what I'm now used to. It was, uh, ok. The quiet click switches are fairly mushy feeling to me with their rubber dampers, and overall I wouldn't want to go back to the stock switches.