Beam Spring 104+SSK Reproduction Project! First Batch In Stock, Shipping early next year after New Model F Project

[depletedvespene]

For me personally, one of the constraints is making sure that the layout is supported by common Cherry keycap sets. There's not too many keycap sets out there which have enough caps for a 122-key layout.

Indeed. Although, if we all went with MT3 profile caps, a case could be made to convince massdrop to sell "delta kits" for their highest selling MT3 keycap sets.

[depletedvespene]

I would need to see both cursor movement keys as well as a numeric keypad. I use both. Practically I think this means something like a Model M layout, but I’m flexible on arrangement of other items (like split shifts, backspace, etc). This is why I didn’t go for the F77 in spite of really thinking about it. If there is a 122 layout, then I’d prefer the option that is more “Model M like” than the historical layout. Having extra function keys would be a nice thing - would allow for use of F-keys as well as still having media keys.

There's also the possibility, underdiscussed in this thread, of going with a 75% layout — six rows instead of five.

[depletedvespene]

When it comes to typical MX-mount keycap sets, as they pertain to the full-size and tenkeyless form factors, very much all of the sets that are being produced nowadays fully support (with one exception, see below) the following variations in physical layout:

Universally or nigh-universally supported physical layout variations on modern MX-mount keycap sets.

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In no particular order:

1. Non-stepped Caps Lock OR stepped Caps Lock (the switch position underneath changes, so this needs to be taken into account!)
2. 2.25U left Shift (ANSI, ANSISO) OR 1.25U left shift and 1.0U alpha (ISO, ISANSI).
3. 2.75U right Shift OR 1.75U right Shift and 1.0U Fn ("HHKB-style" or "right-side Split"; "left-side split", as used in ABNT and JIS keyboards, is almost entirely unsupported).
4. 2.25U horizontal Enter and 1.5U alpha above (ANSI, ISANSI) OR vertical 1.25/1.5U Enter and 1.0U to its left (ISO, ANSISO).
5. "Modern" (1.25U×3 / 6.25U / 1.25U×4) OR "tsangan" or "winkeyless" (1.5/1.0/1.5U / 7U / 1.5/1.0/1.5U) bottom row.
6. 2.0U Backspace OR two 1.0U keys (the right side one should be Backspace in this case).
7. Homing OR non-homing F, J and numpad-5 keys (this does NOT affect the switch underneath).
8. 2.0U numpad+ OR two 1.0U keys in its place.
9. Normal function row OR the same plus an "F13" key crammed in (this one has decent support, but hasn't become "universal" yet).

Quite few sets will provide for one or two extra "macro" columns to the left of the main alpha block (typically M1..M5 or M1..M10, instead of the proper and good EF1..EF10). Exceedingly few sets will provide the F13..F24 keys (okay, F14..F24). BAE (not pictured) is barely supported, and if it's present, it's for plain BAE instead of Focus-BAE. TIE Enter (not pictured) is very poorly supported.

I'm skipping over 60%, 65%, 75% and other form factors, for the obvious reason.


So, given that Ellipse's stated objective is to mount MX-style keycaps on the beamspring switches, the known limitations in current custom sets should be taken into account.


What would I want? Within the given restrictions, for me ISO support is a must; "tsangan" bottom row is highly desirable, right-split Shift and split numpad+ are desirable; F13 and split Backspace I don't care for; stepped or non-stepped Caps Lock... can be decided by flipping a coin.

[ryanj]

Regarding pricing for additional layouts, my expectation is that it would cost a couple thousand dollars in tooling for each unique layout involving a different number of keys. The key (!) would be finding folks willing to split the tooling costs as noted before - for example if the tooling cost $2k extra then you could have 10 people paying $200 more each, or 20 paying $100 more each. It is definitely tough as these boards are already costly to make.

I pretty much just signed up here to put my opinion.

Please just make this board in Model M and SSK (both with lock lights) layout. I really wanted to get a Model F but I got a Mini M instead which I've been extremely happy with. I just can't get over the odd layout and lack of a function row. I wish the Model F had came in a standard SSK layout, I would have bought it too. If this comes in a normal layout, I will buy it. The only thing I really dislike about the Mini M is the cheap plastic casing (I don't even mind the profile, but I certainly would have paid more for a more premium metal), the blue LEDs and the strange position of the locklights - but given the price I can't complain (okay I'll complain about the blue LEDs).

Just wanted to include my opinion!

[Bjerrk]

I prettymuch just signed up here to put my opinion.

Please just make this board in Model M and SSK (both with lock lights) layout.

Agreed, that would be great!

The only thing I really dislike about the Mini M is the cheap plastic casing (I don't even mind the profile, but I certainly would have paid more for a more premium metal)

I'll actually have to disagree there! Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I actually think that a sturdy plastic chassis, such as the Model M or Model F XT has (top part at least) is much preferable. Much better sound - much deeper and more pleasant. And certainly nicer to the touch - neutral instead of cold (heat-conductive).

I own a New Model F77 (metal) as well as the plastic-framed, lightweight Model F that came with the 5155 portable PC. The 5155 Model F has a much nicer sound and can be used on your lap without feeling cold or overly heavy. A plastic Model F is a great keyboard, as it turns out.

And on top of that, something like the PVC case of a Model M is sturdy as hell. A little bit of flexibility is a strength, not a weakness

[Muirium]

As a frequent Kishsaver lap typist, I recognise your point! Got to be careful how you sit down with that thing…

Re: layout. +1 for regular SSK. (No Unicomp shenanigans, I mean classic Model M layout minus numpad.) It’s a beautiful thing, and everyone knows their way around it. Do that one!

[thefarside]

Another vote for a full Model M and SSK layout. The option for a plastic case would be appealing if it was significantly lighter and cheaper.

[aidanic]

I prettymuch just signed up here to put my opinion.

Please just make this board in Model M and SSK (both with lock lights) layout.

Agreed, that would be great!

The only thing I really dislike about the Mini M is the cheap plastic casing (I don't even mind the profile, but I certainly would have paid more for a more premium metal)

I'll actually have to disagree there! Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I actually think that a sturdy plastic chassis, such as the Model M or Model F XT has (top part at least) is much preferable. Much better sound - much deeper and more pleasant. And certainly nicer to the touch - neutral instead of cold (heat-conductive).

I own a New Model F77 (metal) as well as the plastic-framed, lightweight Model F that came with the 5155 portable PC. The 5155 Model F has a much nicer sound and can be used on your lap without feeling cold or overly heavy. A plastic Model F is a great keyboard, as it turns out.

And on top of that, something like the PVC case of a Model M is sturdy as hell. A little bit of flexibility is a strength, not a weakness

If you want a beamspring keyboard with a plastic case, there's always the Keystone keyboard with Silo beamsprings

[Bjerrk]

If you want a beamspring keyboard with a plastic case, there's always the Keystone keyboard with Silo beamsprings

Or at least, the idea of it is always there.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/le ... ts/3446400

Actually, I have an IBM 5251 which is at least partially plastic. Wouldn't mind it being even plastic'er, though - I'm sure a bit of plate flex would've led to an even nicer keyfeel (less harsh bottom out).

[Ellipse]

We are about 4-8 weeks away from me mailing out the remaining Model F keyboards in the backlog! A little over 500 keyboards plus many non-keyboard orders.

Here are the first photos of the prototype beam case and the top and bottom inner assembly plates. They will be making a full prototype with these parts before we proceed. As noted before this is just a test to make sure everything will fit together and work together. The design is likely to change (an angle to the case was added but not for this sample, etc.) and I'm not sure yet if I'm making molds for a few beam cases so you can pick a 3278 style beam spring for yourself or a 3101, etc. Each case style will also have different layout options ideally so there may be a 104 style and a less wide SSK style case.

These are just powdercoated smooth black for the tests as opposed to the bumpy original style texture expected on the finished products.

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[soyuz]

thanks i hate it

[kelvinhall05]

i hate it too but i'm not thankful for this piece of shit

[Muirium]

Or at least, the idea of it is always there.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/le ... ts/3446400

Oh now there’s a blast from the past. Did those ever ship? Can we buy them now? A quick read of the kickstarter link is unclear, with long passed dates but no obvious current status.

The TKL with a set of clicky modules for under 200 is quite compelling.

[ifohancroft]

...

Those look fucking awesome!

Or at least, the idea of it is always there.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/le ... ts/3446400

Oh now there’s a blast from the past. Did those ever ship? Can we buy them now? A quick read of the kickstarter link is unclear, with long passed dates but no obvious current status.

The TKL with a set of clicky modules for under 200 is quite compelling.

They didn't ship yet. You can still pre-order the keyboard and (separately) the Beamspring switches on Kono.Store.
I believe the current status is basically: We wait

[depletedvespene]

Here are the first photos of the prototype beam case and the top and bottom inner assembly plates. They will be making a full prototype with these parts before we proceed. As noted before this is just a test to make sure everything will fit together and work together. The design is likely to change (an angle to the case was added but not for this sample, etc.) and I'm not sure yet if I'm making molds for a few beam cases so you can pick a 3278 style beam spring for yourself or a 3101, etc. Each case style will also have different layout options ideally so there may be a 104 style and a less wide SSK style case.

Excited to see this coming along! (don't forget ISO support, though) Also, I can't wait to hear this with the solenoid on.


With that said, I'll be that guy and mention that this posterior section:

That section.

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Strikes me as gratuituous, and would drive up the cost/price (plus footprint) for no real good reason. I understand the desire to evoke the beamsprings of yore, but a functional case would be better, and the desired looks would be better evoked with the proper case color (something I have no doubt Ellipse can pull off, as we've seen with the Model F repros) and a good choice of MT3 keycaps. IMNAAHO.

[tiltowait]

Very much in the eyes of the beholder. I, for one, am far more likely to buy it with that "posterior section"

[thefarside]

I like it and wouldn’t mind a large back section to hold stuff like pens, stickies and an iPhone. A low profile case would be great but I imagine this must be the lowest you can go with beam springs.

[xxhellfirexx]

I like it and wouldn’t mind a large back section to hold stuff like pens, stickies and an iPhone.

It can also be a place to put a battery pack to enable Bluetooth mode and also a USB hub.

[Muirium]

Even an HHKB Pro 2 has enough space for a Bluetooth battery *or* a USB hub, Okay, not both, but this entire keyboard is about that same volume, and it's a whole working keyboard!

All that extra metal/work will be pricey. I'd keep it compact if I were running this thing, instead of burdening everyone with the added cost. Plenty of room inside the main chassis for user mods like USB hubs. I know from my little 3278.

[Bjerrk]

In all honesty, I think demand would absolutely soar if anybody produced a Model M SSK-esque beamspring keyboard.

But somehow that is not Ellipse's plan, and that's of course entirely his prerogative.

[Muirium]

Very true. The '-esque' is an issue, however. Because all you need to do is to look edge-on at an SSK to see how low profile it is compared to the height of any beamspring board or switch module. A Beamsaver is going to be a real slab any way it's done. The SSK layout is absolutely worth following, but the SSK aesthetic won't transfer across.

[JCMax]

I think the case looks fantastic!

It looks like out of all the likely layouts, I would go for the HHKB or SSK/Mini M. (with the lock-lights of course )

[KJHawkinson]

The prototype case is looking really nice! Looking forward to seeing it with some switches and keycaps as well.

I know that it isn't finalized but is it possible to list the overall dimensions of the prototype case with the keycaps in place?

[Ellipse]

And here is the sample beam case populated with beam modules. As noted before this is likely not the final design as I expect to go with separate cases, one based on each of the most well-known beam case designs (3278, 3101, 66-key, etc.) if feasible.

The first two photos show the keyboard installed without the new top inner foam that goes between the top of the beam modules and below the top inner assembly plate. This was more like my first beam round design.

The third photo shows the new prototype foam installed inside the top inner assembly. The purpose of the foam is to reduce the reverberation sound and make it sound closer to the originals.

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[ifohancroft]

Those look absolutely gorgeous!

[Johnbo]

Does this mean that we'll be able to fill up the nave cluster area instead of just having dead space there?

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[Ellipse]

Yes those keys will have pads and cutouts for the beam 104 and smaller keyboards to drop in the beam modules, so you can cut away the aluminum case if desired and add some modules (looks like they installed some modules underneath those spots in that photo by mistake). Same as with the F77/F62 having the black tape covering the hole to use the smaller space bar on all of the keyboards except scumnc which uses the smaller space bar exclusively.

Of course they cannot be populated with the beam 122-style keyboards which will likely have 128 keys already used (104 keys for standard ANSI + 2 additional for ISO short shift < > and ~ # key to the left of ISO enter + 12 F13-F24 keys + 10 keys for the left side block), as 128 is the maximum allowed on a 16x8 matrix. I am open to someone submitting an updated controller design to allow for an additional optional column - maybe Rico's new RP2040-based controller will allow for this - though it might be tricky with maintaining backwards compatibility (maybe a solder pad to switch it from being an extra column to being a ground column?). Compromises will possibly be needed for those wanting to order custom layout 122-style beam spring keyboards, especially if they want additional keys like splitting the backspace, etc.

[depletedvespene]

Of course they cannot be populated with the beam 122-style keyboards which will likely have close to 128 keys already used (104/105 keys for standard ANSI/ISO + 12 F13-F24 keys + 10 keys for the left side block), as 128 is the maximum allowed on a 16x8 matrix. I am open to someone submitting an updated controller design to allow for an additional optional column - maybe Rico's new RP2040-based controller will allow for this - though it might be tricky with maintaining backwards compatibility (maybe a solder pad to switch it from being an extra column to being a ground column?). Compromises will possibly be needed for those wanting to order custom layout 122-style beam spring keyboards, especially if they want additional keys like splitting the backspace, etc.

Just getting "completely covered" the full 122-key layout, to support the IBM 4980 keyboard, will take up 127 keys... plus two more for LGUI and RGUI (because tsangan bottom row and whatnot).

Four more keys to complete the 5×3 block, two (not one) more for a split space bar, and let us conveniently forget the unused space above the nav cluster and numpad.

[Admiral]

Hey Ellipse are we going to get a sound test comparing the different cases (the compact vs newly designed) and original beamspring boards this year or more towards next year when they're ready to ship?

I am also a little confused didn't you have to redesign or change something to the design so the cases won't be interchangeable or am I mistaken?

I saw people suggesting plastic cases. I was wondering if you were considering this option at all?

[Ellipse]

As noted before, the beam spring project is designed to reproduce the performance and functionality (weighting, travel distance, module specifications) of the originals but with some updates (shortened the two plastic parts of the beam module without altering the travel distance); the sound is not going to be similar to the originals for the first production run because of the design changes (no added foam above the modules, no rubber below, no thick case, etc.). The modules themselves sound close in my opinion but the goal of the project is not an exact sound reproduction.

Here's a sound comparison of an original module and a new module - this is just one module of each so it will likely not represent what each module will sound like, and it especially does not represent what the installed keyboard sounds like (more test videos with the full keyboard will be made later).

Nope there will be no plastic cases. I'm hoping the beam modules will be interchangeable but I have not yet received the new beam case sample to confirm this. All the cases will be powdercoated aluminum or steel (sorry no more extra heavy zinc!).