Alps Appreciation

[engr]

Is that white alps?

Blue Alps. I have tried it on an Omnikey 101 with pine white Alps and it had a similar effect.

[engr]

Here's what DC-2214 (Blue Alps) sounds like with and without foam.
The ping is still there but I think the clacks sound bassier.

No foam:

With PE Foam:

[hellothere]

My official "best pics I can take" of the grey AEK II I'm selling.

Spoiler:

top - Copy.jpg (894.79 KiB) Viewed 27537 times

closeup - Copy.jpg (577.18 KiB) Viewed 27537 times

* Rust-Oleum 2x Primer
* Rust-Oleum Granite Grey paint
* Rust-Oleum matte clear enamel

[Scarpia]

My official "best pics I can take" of the grey AEK II I'm selling.

Spoiler:

top - Copy.jpgcloseup - Copy.jpg

* Rust-Oleum 2x Primer
* Rust-Oleum Granite Grey paint
* Rust-Oleum matte clear enamel

Looks great! I know I’m nitpicking here, but with that level of effort put in and how clean it looks, I am suddenly noticing the slightly yellow space bar much more….

[Muirium]

ABS spacebars are the scourge of PBT!

[engr]

Does anyone have any tips on reducing spring ping from complicated Alps? Is lubricating the springs the least invasive way to do this? Any specifics on how to do it (how much grease to use, what kind, etc.)?

[Delta Research]

Does anyone have any tips on reducing spring ping from complicated Alps? Is lubricating the springs the least invasive way to do this? Any specifics on how to do it (how much grease to use, what kind, etc.)?

Personally I bag lube with a small smear of Krytox 205g0, but others have used the 105 oil as well. If you want the mod to be reversible instead I suggest adding a length of floss equal to the length of the spring when it's compressed.

[engr]

Personally I bag lube with a small smear of Krytox 205g0, but others have used the 105 oil as well. If you want the mod to be reversible instead I suggest adding a length of floss equal to the length of the spring when it's compressed.

Thanks, I will try the floss mod. I have only heard about using it with buckling springs, never with Alps, but it makes sense that it would work.

[hellothere]

My official "best pics I can take" of the grey AEK II I'm selling.

Spoiler:

top - Copy.jpgcloseup - Copy.jpg

* Rust-Oleum 2x Primer
* Rust-Oleum Granite Grey paint
* Rust-Oleum matte clear enamel

Looks great! I know I’m nitpicking here, but with that level of effort put in and how clean it looks, I am suddenly noticing the slightly yellow space bar much more….

Everyone's a critic

I've mentioned that I live in a desert. Well, said desert has been cloudy/rainy for about a month or more. Considering I do retr0brighting outside, cloudy/rainy is a problem.

Middle of summer when it's 122 degrees and not a cloud in a 500 mile radius? It'd take 15 minutes

[engr]

Whoever scored that Omnikey Ultra on eBay yesterday, congratulations on a great purchase (judging from the photos, it was nearly NOS and with box and everything) and thank you for saving what's left of my bank account. I was fighting the urge to buy it, but luckily it was gone within hours of posting

[engr]

An Omnikey Ultra with some interesting sublegends (WordPerfect?) on the left function keys, I don't think I have seen these before:

[engr]

An unusual keyboard with Blue Alps on eBay:

[engr]

So, I finally got an Omnikey Ultra-TP in near-mint condition from eBay, and I have been trying to figure out how to program it.
I could not find a manual online, to I tried the instructions for programming the Avant Prime/Stellar keyboards (which are supposed to be the rebadged versions of 101P/Ultra-TP), and they did not work. I opened the keyboard, and sure enough, the EEPROM (24C16 chip) has been removed, because then tend do go bad on these keyboards, and the easiest way to get the board functioning again is by just removing them. Which also happens to remove the programmability feature.

I could probably transplant the EEPROM from my Avant Prime (it has no extra keys, so I don't use the programming feature on it), but ideally I would like to find a replacement. I see Atmel 24C16 chips are available on eBay, but my question is: can they be just used as drop-in replacements, or is it more complicated that that, i.e. some sort of programming is required?

These two look so adorable together :')

[Polecat]

Just open it up to see if the EEPROM has been removed. But it should still work with a bad one in place, it just wouldn't program.

[engr]

Just open it up to see if the EEPROM has been removed. But it should still work with a bad one in place, it just wouldn't program.

Yep, I just updated my post. It has been removed. If I get solder in a NOS Amtel 24C16 chip, will the programmability be restored, or is it more complicated that that?

[Polecat]

The programmable Avants and Northgates all have "Ver. 1.0" on the label, so I don't think there were any revisions or running changes. I believe that replacing the EEPROM with a new blank one will restore the programming, but I haven't actually done it myself nor heard of anyone who has. I would suggest spending an extra 50 cents for an 8 pin DIP socket for future adventures.

[engr]

I would suggest spending an extra 50 cents for an 8 pin DIP socket for future adventures.

That's a good point, I will get one, just need to figure out the correct pitch.

[Polecat]

Standard 8 pin DIP. 0.1 inch.

[engr]

Thanks. I will give it a try, although I have a strong suspicion that a blank EEPROM will not self-reprogram (if it were, Bob Tibbetts would probably be replacing instead of removing them). Worst case, I will transplant the chip from my Avant Prime into the Ultra-TP and will use it for as long as it lasts.

[engr]

I checked with Michael Lueck, who used to repair Omnikeys before selling his inventory to Bob Tibbets. Michael confirmed that a new chip would not work without being reprogrammed first, which is why he used to just remove these chips from Omnikeys. It appears that the only one who could program them was William Ingold, the original developer of Omnikeys. He passed away in 2019.

[Polecat]

Interesting, thanks for the update. There's nothing magic about EPROMs. Find a compatible burner, read the old one, write the code into the new one, done. But if you don't have a good one to copy you need the binary file, which was probably Bill Ingold's piece of the puzzle. There must be some code in there to initialize or load the variable data, but that would copy along with the default values. Obviously the EEPROM isn't needed for the keyboard to work in non-programmable mode, so that firmware must be in the controller itself.

[engr]

Hmm, I tried transplanting the EEPROM from my Avant Prime into the Ultra-TP (using a DIP socket), and... the Ultra-TP has not responded, i.e. still only works in the non-programmable mode. Which is weird, because Avant Prime is basically 101P, and 101P and Ultra-TP are supposed to be identical (same PCB, only 101 has part of the PCB broken off).

Trying a different DIP socket did not help. The chip still works in the Avant Prime though (which I have also outfitted with a DIP socket). So either there is some subtle difference in firmware between the two boards, or my soldering skills suck.

[Polecat]

...or whomever removed the old EEPROM damaged something in the process...

[engr]

I haven't seen any obvious damage (solder pads, traces), but now I am noticing some differences between my 101P with non-functioning programmability and my Avant Prime.

101P's EEPROM is labeled "Atmel525 24C16 PC", while Avant Prime's EEPROM has a slightly different p/n and a different manufacturer. Also, on the Avant Prime the LED used for programming functions is located on the bottom of the switch, while on the
101P and Ultra-TP it is located on top. I am guessing there are some differences between these PCBs after all.

Which makes me think that if I want an Omnikey battlecruiser with a fully functioning programmability, I need to either:

a) Get an Avant Stellar that either has a working EEPROM or can have the EEPROM from my Avant Prime transplanted into it;
b) Get a functioning EEPROM from for a 101P or Ultra-TP.

Neither one is an easy task, these particular models aren't very common.

[Polecat]

The Gen3 and Gen4 Northgates and the Avants had quite a few reversible switch positions on the PC boards. That was done to accomodate different models and layouts. They are dual-labelled on the PC board, which shows the two functions of each reversible switch. There are even some labelled "Europe", which suggests European/ISO versions were planned. No clue if any were actually built. But...the other consideration, which would be specific to the up-arrow, is the window position for the LED in the keycap. If the switch had to be reversed to match the keycaps the key map translation for the up-arrow would have to be changed as well. Since the up-arrow is required for the programming to work the EEPROM might be different for that reason. It might be worth flipping that switch around to see what, if anything happens.

I have a programming-working Avant Stellar if that would help in any way.

edit: photo of the Northgate Gen3 switch legends:

viewtopic.php?p=342941#p342941

[Polecat]

...and there's one of Bill Ingold's neat features, which may or may not work on the Gen4 Northgate/Avant boards. Get yourself to a DOS prompt, hold both Shift keys and press F8. That reports the firmware version of your keyboard, at least on some of the earlier versions. That may help to determine any differences between your keyboards (if it works on Gen4; costs nothing to try at least).

[engr]

Thank you for the suggestions. I am guessing the DOS key combo may only work when it's connected natively through PS/2; I tried it while using a USB adapter and nothing happened. I will give it a try later today via a native PS/2.

I think it would make sense for us as a community to try and figure out how to preserve the functionality of these keyboards while there are still some working chips available. Cloning the EEPROMs may be a possibility if it does not violate any copyright laws (who, if anyone, even owns the copyright for firmware, if that's a thing? Bill passed away, Northgate and presumably Focus are out of business, CVT was purchased by some other company and no longer makes keyboards...)

It would be really great if anyone would be wiling to resurrect the Omnikey and Focus keyboards the way Ellipse did it with IBM boards, and not just the basic functionality but also things like calculator and on-the-fly programmability. Keymacs is a great project, but the layout makes it a very niche product.

[Polecat]

I just checked three keyboards for the version ID. The 101I (Gen2, Rev 1.02) and 101 (Gen3, Rev 7.03) both give an ID at a Win7 command prompt, but it only appears for a second and disappears. If you blink you'll miss it. That's using a Soarer's converter. The Avant Stellar (Gen4) does not show a version ID. It was worth a try. I'll check the rest of my Northgates when I can get to them, but the Avant is the only Gen4 I have.

[engr]

Interesting, thank you for checking. Looks like I will have to keep looking for an Avant Stellar if I want a working the holy grail of Alps keyboards - a reprogrammable Omnikey battlecruiser with Windows keys. These seem to be pretty rare, I have yet to see one in the wild.

[TNT]

Interesting, thank you for checking. Looks like I will have to keep looking for an Avant Stellar if I want a working the holy grail of Alps keyboards - a reprogrammable Omnikey battlecruiser with Windows keys. These seem to be pretty rare, I have yet to see one in the wild.

Isn't the build quality of the original Omnikeys vastly superior?