Best vintage keyboard without spending life's savings?

[jadontalis]

Hey everyone! I'm new here and have become obsessed with vintage keyboards over the last few weeks. I really want to switch my daily driver to a vintage mechanical keyboard. If I could give a kidney I'd buy a Model F Labs Beam Spring B104 or BSSK board or any of his model Fs with solenoid but it's just out of the cards at this stage in my life. I saw on Ebay recently a Zenith Z-150 with Green Alps for $100 so something in the land of those old linears or clicky that I can use everyday to code and grind papers out of. Anything with a pen holder is also a plus . Thanks in advance, cheers!

[Johnbo]

I think the obvious answer you'll get from most people is a basic Model M. It's the quintessential "vintage keyboard". It's plenty easy to score them off eBay for a hundred bucks, or even less if you're patient and check frequently for deals. Or for a little bit more you can buy a brand new Model M from Unicomp. Either way, I think a Model M is the perfect intro keyboard to the hobby.

[heinz]

With the Model M you have to take account the fact that the actuation force might not be the thing for everybody. Also if you get one used you might need to bolt mod it yourself and that's what I did and I am happy with mine now.

If you want it cheaper you might also want to check out good rubber dome keyboards like some of the KeyTronic, especially the Ergoforce variety I have heard is good. I know, the "rubber dome" can put you off but I also used word "good".

In my experience I can't recommend the buckling spring clones. I had one that's make and model I don't recall and it was horrible.

[Findecanor]

For Key Tronic, only the Ergoforce is worth pursuing IMHO. Many non-ErgoForce are very mushy.

[kbdfr]

Best vintage keyboard? I would opt for a Cherry keyboard with a model number starting with G80
You'll never have to fix anything yourself.

[Findecanor]

Used vintage keyboards haven't really been cheap for years now, since the mechanical keyboard revival. The G80 series aren't that special: they just used to be cheap before that, so many used to buy them from parts.
But you might get lucky, and find a seller who hasn't checked eBay prices.

BTW. Beware also of really old G80 keyboards with PCBs made of phenolic resin. I had one that went bad, and had to throw the PCB out.

[jadontalis]

Appreciate the suggestions! I have stayed away from the model Ms as they seem very mushy for my liking, but if I can get a good deal on one then it's a done deal since they are a classic. Definitely like the Ergoforces, and they look to be in my price range as well to get started. What are some things I should be looking for? I may also bite the bullet on an ok to meh zenith z-150 if I can. I found out they sell new PCBs that fit that frame so maybe if I can get a good price on a neglected one I can restore it and either swap the switches to Pine Alps or get the green linears in good working order.

[Green Maned Lion]

The best vintage keyboard without spending a fortune is to buy a NOS Model M from Clickykeyboards.com.

I think I bought his last Battleship, but that's the model I most recommend of the Model Ms. If you think proper Model Ms are mushy, you haven't experienced a real model M. They are clicky and positive. Cherrys are mushy.

If you don't mind dealing with flaky electornics, another would be a White Alps Focus. I have an FK-9000. Great keyboard, if you don't mind playing some histrionics to get it connected every time you use it. Vintage anything can be a bit flaky. I know; a lot of my life is vintage.

[jadontalis]

Yes for sure, that's great to hear i'm wrong on that since the model Ms check most of my boxes for a first keyboard and seems like the people on here agree its a good intro to the space. I'll check out that site for sure. Noted on the Cherrys. The FK-9000 is a beautiful keyboard so one of those would be awesome too. I definitely feel ya on that. I'm in the middle of repairing an IBM Selectric II typewriter, as well as a couple 30+ year old cars that flake out on me regularly (The theory being at least one will probably run right? ).

[Johnbo]

Yeah that's interesting, I've never heard of a Model M described as "mushy". To me they're one of the cleanest, most crisp feeling keyboards out there, basically the opposite of mushy. Have you tried on in person?

[jadontalis]

I suppose mushy isn’t the right word for it, more muted maybe in sound? I was comparing them to model fs and to some extent beam springs, along with various keyboard/ switch reviews of that era. I haven’t interacted with older than a late 90’s rubber dome and 2010-present mechanicals. So take my uninformed opinions/ comments with a grain of salt there. I believe you more than I believe myself on this haha.

The only ones I can have a real opinion on are Cherry mx variants and I hate them all except for razer’s early greens and maybe blues with a some modding but that still doesn’t solve the root issue that they just lack certain feel and sound by design.

[Johnbo]

Oh yeah, there's no doubt that Model Fs have an even cleaner feel than Ms, but I think Ms are still vastly superior to most MX stuff out there. If you have the budget for it, yeah for sure get an F. But with ~$100 I think you'd be better off with a basic Model M if you wanted to go buckling spring route. Otherwise you're looking at a Model F XT, and yeah... that's a rough layout in this day and age.

Of course there's nothing wrong with trying to find some Alps boards if that's the way you'd rather go. I got my Focus FK2000 with white alps for under $100, granted that was years ago, and the market's definitely different now. I haven't paid too much attention to alps stuff recently since the white alps weren't my favorite, I prefer buckling springs.

I feel this is also a good time to mention Zeal PC clickies switches. They're alps-inspired click leaf switches, and I love them. By far my favorite MX-style switch. In fact I daily-ed a keyboard with them along side my F122 on my work computer for a long time.

[Green Maned Lion]

If you haven't actually spent time typing on a buckling spring IBM Model M (there are also some rubber dome units out there, and while I hear it is one of the better rubber domes, its still a rubber dome), you really should. Unicomp's keyboards are not to be sniffed at; they just reflect the fact that when new a Model M cost $7-800 in today's money... and the Unicomps are ~$200. The older the M, the better it is.

[heinz]

Model M-s can be mushy only when they are used and they dont have all the rivets anymore but then you have to bolt mod them.

if you are between the model M and F because of sound then Model M sounds more clacky and F more pingy. You can sometimes hear the ping when using the model Ms too. I prefer the clacky.

[sliceoflemon]

First up, I wouldn't waste time on rubber dome boards. If you are going to go through the trouble of getting a vintage board, go find one with mechanical switches for the real vintage experience.

I don't think there is a "best" vintage keyboard. Given the wide range of switch types available in the vintage world (buckling springs, Alps and MX are just the more commonly known ones), it would really depend on what you are after in terms of switch feel. It's hard to tell from your description because model Fs, model Ms, pine and blue Alps are clicky switches whereas green Alps are linear. These are poles apart.

The key thing here is that vintage keyboards require work for restoration. How much work is involved would depend on the condition of the keyboard. The ones that are already restored are going to cost a pretty penny because someone has already done the work. So to avoid breaking the bank, you are looking at getting your hands dirty to some extent.

There's also the fact that unless you own vintage computers which you can plug these vintage keyboards into, you will need something to get these to work with a modern day computer (typically USB). There are adaptors for the various kinds of connectors these keyboards use. Buying them also involves a cost. If you can build them yourself, you save a fair amount. Again, it's down to how much work you want to do (and can manage yourself).

Model Ms are beautiful things. Their advantages are once set right, they can last for ages. The problem is that if things don't go right, you are possibly looking at a bolt/screw mod. IMHO, that's a bit much for a first time vintage keyboard unless you like doing this sort of stuff.

In terms of adaptors, if you avoid the terminal ones, you are generally looking at a PS/2 or AT keyboard adaptor. Those can generally be converted to USB using a combination of AT ->PS/2 -> USB active converters which are not really expensive to buy.

Alps switch keyboards are another story entirely because depending on the switch type, some are rarer (and therefor more costly) than others. The key thing about alps switches is they don't require desoldering in order to be opened up. So you can service the switches without desoldering them.

Zenith Z-150s are generally not cheap as they are not that common. Focus keyboards have been getting more expensive in the last few years, likely because many people know about them and go for them. These are typically going to require an active AT/PS/2 to USB converter. That can involve a bit of cost unless you build them yourself (Soarer's converters/TMK IBM converters, etc).

The most common Alps keyboards IMHO are Apple Extended II keyboards (M3501). These are easily available. In general, they
are fairly inexpensive. The most common ones use cream alps switches which are silenced tactile switches. Some people might find these mushy but if you look hard enough, you can find some with tactile orange alps switches.

The downside to this is these vintage Apple boards will require a ADB -> USB converter (TMK ADB converter, etc). Those are a little harder to find compared to the AT/PS/2 -> USB active converters (unless you build your own).

No matter which option you choose, it will typically require a fair bit of research and time to get done. I wish the best of luck and a welcome to the world of vintage keyboards.

[BucklingSpring]

If $179 is not too much: https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/MINI_M
I wouldn't qualify Buckling Springs as mushy... But they are on the heavy and loud side.

(Unicomp had bad periods for QA. I don't know how they fare these days. My old units were good)

[Valyok]

This one’s my daily driver. It’s an Apple Extended Keyboard (AEK).

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[DiscoMike]

I recommend giving up a kidney for the Model-M - still have mine for 25 years now and loving it.

And if you are up to giving up both kidneys - a Model-F 104 Key Keyboard. I am typing on it right now !!!

I've given up 3 kidneys just to acquire it and I am functioning just fine. Oh wait a minute.... No. False alarm.

[wobbled]

I’d agree with a Model M, though would advise against a reproduction Model F. Those things are unfortunately a lottery, and Chyros’s reviews are not an accurate representation of what you get delivered.
Expect to spend hours troubleshooting, only to find out it’s a defect that should and would have been caught if QC actually existed.
Or you’ll be happy with it for 6 months and the paint will already start peeling off.
AEK’s are also pretty cool, as are AT101s

[Green Maned Lion]

I want to point out for anyone looking to buy a vintage Model M, or probably a lot of vintage things: they are a rabbit hole.

My story went like this: I used Model Ms in elementary and middle school in the labs (we were/are a Mac household), and I thought them better than the Alps board on my Mac SE. Some time marched on, we got membrane Apple boards, and then I got tasked with the job of trying to help a friend's parents get him a computer, which meant police discard sourced IBM PC XT 286s among other similarly 10 year old technologically irrelevant 'junk' (they are far from being junk, but they serve no useful purpose then or now beyond exploring the past and playing old games). At that time, Apple was 'going out of business' and my dad bought me an Aptiva so I could learn how to use 'what everyone else is using.' I ended up running one of the Ms that came with those XT 286s on that Aptiva, convinced they were the best keyboard ever made.

USB became a standard, and that resulted in me abandoning all my vintage keyboards in a closet. But I longed for the feel of an M. A couple of years ago, I was lamenting this on a non-computer forum full of engineers, having bought Keychron Cherry boards, and they told me about Unicomp. I bought one for my home office... and shortly bought another for my mobile office. Then I pulled one of my IBM Ms out of storage, bought a converter, and... well the IBM model is a lot nicer than the Unicomp. And with converters, a Battleship/Battlecruiser can be made to do all kinds of useful single-button actions not available on a regular board.

In that time I have since bought eight IBM-designed mechanism keyboards: one 101-key IBM M, one IBM Type II battleship (that I destroyed trying to bolt mod and ultimately donated to Brandon Ermita), four Type I M battleships (a 1985 IBM, a 1988 IBM, a 1995-ish Lexmark and a 2000ish Unicomp), a Model F Projects Beamspring battleship, two complete custom key sets from Unicomp, a bunch of other keys besides, 75 relgendable keycaps from Joe, four Tinkerboy converters, a Focus FK-9000, and I have an IBM Model F Battleship currently on its way on UPS. If I haven't spent five grand on this yet, I'd be surprised. It also resulted in me buying two current production models of my favourite trackball from back in the day, currently the X-Keys L-Track.

I'm not saying it isn't worth it; any interest/hobby/obession is worth it if it brings you joy, and typing on these solid old reminders that modern disposable crap really is modern disposable crap, with everything exactly as I want it in front of me, brings me great joy. But I have been blessed with the financial comfort and the understanding wife to let me go this far into the rabbit hole... and you mentioned the word cheap. As I say on the Sprinter forum to people who are looking for a 'cheap Mercedes Sprinter', if you are looking to avoid spending money, you're in the wrong place.

[Falkenroth]

Pretty much in the same boat as you Green Maned Lion. Defiantly passed the five grand mark long ago. Twenty plus different variant model Ms and Fs. I would have to do a inventory check on my stock to know the exact amount. Haha. Problem is I say I'm done then the next thing you know I'm on ebay browsing Model Ms or Unicomp comes out with a limited Blacked Out board with black keys and I'm sucked right back in. Plus I enjoy overhauling Model Ms that have had a hard life and bring them back to their former glory.

[Muirium]

I think youthful exposure to Model Ms really alters the equation. I grew up in the 1980s/90s, ironically just an hour away from (IBM's European production centre) Greenock but I don’t recall any experience with Model M before I got into keyboards in 2013 or so. In fact, I'd already been spoiled by Model F. Compared to them, Model M just never felt like much to me. So shuffy and plasticky.

The keyboards that did pull at my heartstrings were Alps for the most part. Black Alps, White Alps, Cream Alps, Salmon Alps, Blue Alps if you're lucky, they're the stuff that cries vintage to me, as they’re the stuff I had used as a kid. I don’t have many of them but the Alps boards I have are so diverse and characterful.

Mind, the boards I prefer over everything else are Topre. They're like the quality rubber domes of olden days, but stay that way even after years and years of use. Still in production, and still absolutely top end construction and feel. I'd take one of those over a Unicomp any day of the week, especially at the price they’re asking for a Mini M!

Are affordable XTs still a thing? Model F is absolutely worth trying. Don’t bust a body part over getting a fancy one, though. I hear the heartache. An XT will tell you all you need to know, even at first touch.

[Chloe]

If I wanted a true vintage daily without overspending, I’d start with a clean Model M or an Apple Extended Keyboard II. I’d focus on overall condition rather than chasing rare switches, since wear matters more than specs at this price. Alps and Zenith boards can be great, but I’d only buy one if I was ready to service it myself.